Lady_Why

If any problem arises from it, I'll let the group know for future reference.

*we can speculate that he went back to the car, couldn't find the required size (8mm) and used 10mm that he flattened with the hammer - without informing me. This is feasible, but his reputation suggest he would only have done so if he deemed it to work 'as well' as three rings of 8mm. If it doesn't drip for the next few years, I guess the work is good.

I had to go away briefly to get a hammer for him, so that was the one stage I missed. Hence, why I asked if he had removed the old packing (since I didn't see it). Tbh, that is pretty basic, so I can't see why he would 'not have done it'. Your reasoning on flattening sounds fair though, but he did measure it before going back to the car to get the packing. In the end I can only share (1) engineer's reputation on the cut so others can evaluate the value of the source (2) what I observed, and (3) what answers I got to my questions. The rest would require a crystal ball. I should add that out of 4 engineers on this stretch (one of which is a suspected cowboy), he has the best reputation and people will cruise to 'his area' in order to get his service. I do keep my ear to the ground on the particular stretch I cruise. He may not be perfect, but word tends to spread if your jobs are dodgy and I chat to a lot of people. So whatever expertise he is presenting is built on his experience. Should I get reason to suspect his expertise on gland packing, I will come back and post an honest retraction. I don't invest pride in these things. But since it is a relatively easy job and his reputations goes back years, I find it hard to believe he would not know how to do it at this point or know how to to it but risk his reputation by doing a sloppy job. People are at liberty, of course, to take away from this whatever they want. I am only sharing the experience. My primary reason for posting was that a lot of people seem to take their boats out of the water for this job, and it seems unnecessary.

Definitely 2 pieces with joints as you described. He said in some cases that is enough. I was watching the job he was doing, so I doubt he would risk his reputation on something as small/non-costly as that. He packed each individually tight by pressing/pushing them in with the slider. If people can fit in 3 and get the nuts back on, then of course go with 3. Prior to him coming, the gland had been on/off dripping heavily and the grease had been coming out on the inside for quite a while (I was not aware that the grease is meant to go 'outwards' rather than 'inside' and that a build up of grease around the gland is suggestive that it is time to repack). I asked if he had removed the old packing, which was when he said there was nothing left (I am guessing that minor remnants had deteriorated and become part of the grease that was removed ). Even while he was working there was no water coming through. I am not an engineer though, so I am not sure why no water was coming through while working, but as an eye witness I can confirm it. Presumably to more easily fit them in and ensure the fit is snug.

Hi everyone. I thought I should just add some real life experience on the topic. I just had mine done in the water and after chit chatting/observing with the engineer the sum of his expertise is that in most cases you can repack while in the water - although he mentioned one rare type of set-up that leaks masses while you're doing the job (I unfortunately did not jot down the name) so I guess a good bilge pump and nerves may always be handy. Mine did not leak at all (see pic of mine to identify type) and was easily repacked while on the canal. He literally just wiped off all grease, unscrewed the nuts and slid it back to discover that I had the impressive amount of 0 packing left.... ? and then cut two pieces to size, hammered them flat and squeezed them in before tightening it all up again. Piece of cake, so I will do it myself next time. He used graphite, btw and he is an engineer with very very solid reputation on the Grand Union, although he didn't seem to feel there was a massive difference which you use. I hope this assists someone in the future. ? Also, found a good link for the dizzying amounts of stern gland set-ups out there.... if anyone fancies the extracurricular activity or to identify their own. http://coxeng.co.uk/stern-gear/stern-glands/

No, not a new boat. The bitumen must have come off and the exposed steel gotten millscale. OR it was millscale on it from the very start in 1987 and people have just painted over it for some reason. There is a definite difference between the clean steel & dark millscale. I could do a blacking, but I guess I'm concerned at the hard work of taking it off to do an Epoxy later. Ultimately, I want to work towards an Epoxy given the all around concerns about bitumen in water tanks. Thanks, Tracy! I think bitumen might have to be it... still attracted to Epoxy in the long run. Sounds like you have to do the job less often once the Epoxy is on.

Thank you, Dave! The tank is currently Vactaned & I've been lying in it (not crying, but slightly annoyed with myself) to have a think about my options based on what I've read up so far: 1. The boat yard thinks Epoxy is a good idea, but I don't. I've seen the work still to be done in the tank; they've only glanced at it. Areas of millscale alone makes it risky. 2. Whack Bitumen on the Vactan (but this may fall off the millscale too, if I don't succeed to abrade it? and then also be a real bother to take off if I want to do Epoxy next time). 3. Just stick to Vactan, empty it once a year to work a little bit more on it & re-apply Vactan (I assume this is doable while in the canal, as long as plate is warm enough?). By spending 3 years removing all of the old bitumen gradually, I can then do the epoxy next time I'm craned out for blackening. . The last option seems the most sensible, but also lazy. And I always start to suspect myself when the lazy option sounds good! I was brought up that hard work is good work, but I simply don't have the time or heart to start from scratch again to do it all right.

Thankfully I screwed my brain back on and realised it might be worth emailing various paint suppliers. Turns out Bituross was a bitumen. Would have saved me a lot of confusion and faffing if I'd done that on day 1 - I'm on a messy learning curve with this water tank. ? I'm also learning about millscale for the first time & what it looks like. I just want to say: this group is a life saver in terms of picking up vital pieces of info. ❤️ Still, hard to tell what is dark millscale or remains of very old bitumen. And I'm running out of time. I've seen that some just Vactan their tank, but since I have the time to overcoat this weekend, I'm thinking to brave it with Epoxy. I know it won't marry well with either millscale or any missed bits of bitumen, but I'm hoping (quite possibly crazily) that the sheet of Vactan will hold onto the surface and, gently abraded, hold any Epoxy on top of it. I am half expecting an explosion of "NOOOOOO"s to follow on this happy-go-lucky statement.... In which case, I'll jump the bus and get potable bitumen instead. (I kind of know I shouldn't Epox it, since I haven'd done sufficient prep work on the steel) Thank you for the google info! The boat yard told me they've got the screws, so I will leave this part to their expertise. They are still fighting to get all of the brass bits out from the previous screws...

I liked this boat yard the first time around, so I resisted this notion for a long time. They are already making money out of me (craning, opening the tank, tool hire) so I hoped I could assume that whatever guidance they give - even if only a little - would be honest. I don't really know if I should revise that, or just view them as disorganised/disinterested. The problem, of course, is that I am now deeply resistant to asking them to do it since I feel that I've been given the run around.

Turns out, they had a little test patch in a drawer in the office all along. I was given it this morning. I have no clue why I wasn't given it straight away, when I presented the problem. *sigh* But at least I have it now. Did the test once, but then realised the surface might be dirty - so I cleaned the surface and tried again. Not all that much came off though so I still feel uncertain if I'm staring at bitumen or 'deeper dirt'.

I was recommended this in a FB group too, so I am considering giving it a try. Thanks for the links! Because I'm a novice (& possibly a moron) who follow instructions from the boat yard, trusting that they are the experts. In my defence, I questioned the 'you must take it back to metal' advice a couple of times, and particularly after realising that I can't take it back to the metal. The boat yard have advised me to go with stainless steel instead. Thank you so much for the offer though! And thank you, Slim & Bee, for further tips on screws!

I was a bit nervous about the state of the tank and doing hard grinding while in water, so took it out. I combined it with an early blacking. In hindsight it was possibly unnecessary, but I didn't know at the time. Neither did I know you can get that cheap angle grinders (it was the one thing I didn't google, in all of my googling)! That said, I needed & will need the boat yard's help to sort out the screw holes so I can re-fit the lid (brass screws got messy when they tried to get them out), since I'm not very tool savvy. Hm, tomorrow may be my last day of using a hired grinder at least.

Thank you, Wotever. ? I am currently not 100% sure that the previous paint was bituminous though. Would there be an issue using potable blacking on something that isn't the same?

I would assume it is ok, if the Vactan is covered with another paint afterwards (bitumen or epoxy?). The Vactan fact sheet mentions its potable and I've seen it recommended for water tanks. Yes, it's an integral tank & I was a bit worried since it hasn't been opened in 18 years (to my knowledge). So for assurance I craned it out and did an early blackening too. I don't know if it is bituminous paint. The name suggests it, but the surface seems hard and slow to get through. If it's not bituminous paint, I'm not sure if I can put a bituminous paint on top? No, I couldn't find it on the web either! The yard isn't that helpful, tbh - at least not in terms of discussing possibilities & options. It's just 'back to metal' or 'I don't know what to tell you'. Hence my depressed state. It doesn't melt or clog; just tough to get through. Grinding forever and only inching forwards. Have to pause a lot as the grinder gets very hot. The boat yard worker recommended the angle grinder (i'm hiring it), but also mentioned that they themselves use needle guns for the job (?). It is a long term boat (give & take the intrusion of fate) & I kind of love her, so would like to do the best job. But I also don't want to struggle with my own well-being. It is not advisable to put vactan on top of the rust, before applying the potable blacking? That's certainly a very similar name!

Hello Dave, & thanks for responding! On the lid to the tank it seems soft, but it is unfortunately hard in the tank itself. I've been given two types of wire brushes (cup version & one for corners) but I've only worked with the cup version so far. The tank isn't rusty all over, but it if fairly widespread. If I try to get it down to the metal myself, it will take ten days or more - and my sanity with it. I'm about to ask the boat yard for a quote, but not sure if they'd even do this type of jobs. I can't see myself getting successfully down to metal on my own. I was hoping that if this BITUROSS was bitumen, it might be possible to just do vactan on the rust and a new layer of bitumen on top?