BilgePump

What about the oft cited 1metre offside? That's about 11,000m2, not too shabby a strip, but as everyone has pointed out, there's bu99er all you can do with it. CaRT call the shots for many of your generations. Still, with a lottery win, owning a canal must be a bucketlister.

It's not hirers vs. private It's respectful vs. pillocks They come in all flavours

Billionaires could buy cheap islands, mountains and canals by the shedload but they don't. Superyachts and jets look proper bling and are tax deductible company transport, right?

Write the cpaital off. You play big money Alan. This would be about the sheer joy of going "Ha, this is MY bit of water"

4.75% pa return on capital, no maintenance cost, own your own freakin' 11 miles of canal for the cost of a luxury widebeam. What's the catch?

Oh, is that what the canals were built for? ? But still, you, me, and the boat in question aren't transporting goods asap, hence the comment that 'it wasn't a working flyboat'. A few decades ago could be the 80s and the canals were no longer dominated by working boats in those years. Then and today, if someone's leisure cruise itinerary is so tight that it necessitates overtaking on such a bend as described by the OP then maybe said itinerary is a tad optimistic. Back when the canals truly were working, the boats were crewed by people on them day in day out, where speed was an economic essential and they had the skills to match. Very few boats would be moored up on the towpath or able to waste time in the day. Now, the boat in front may be 70' of steel or a dinghy, hire boat or coal boat, trip boat, tupperware or kayak, and the experience of the crew can vary from a few hours to a lifetime. Some want to chug slowly along, out of caution or enjoyment, some to get the miles in, both are valid and the same person may like to do both at different times. Add onto this the lines of moored boats that may restrict the available width in parts, typically in the most congested stretches to start with. Possibly, the diverse types (and speeds) of the canal network's users today should be taken into account when we're planning a route, and it should be accepted that opportunities for passing slower boats will be fewer the narrower, windier, shallower, busier or more overgrown a waterway we're travelling. Passing a slower boat isn't bad in itself, but pushing or passing in an uncoordinated and reckless fashion is. What if it had been another overtaking pair coming round the bend in the opposite direction? Going slow isn't unfair in itself, but obstructing another boat where it would be safe for them to pass would be. Give and take, a bit of patience and respect and there's room for all paces. For a small GRP cruiser, catching up with narrowboats is common, without creating a breaking wash and without going faster than walking pace, so it's reasonable to guess most of the steel tubes will be going way below the mythical 4mph mark. The 'speed limit' is written to protect the infrastructure, not an expected fixed pace for everyone. Boats should have the right to go slower, and similarly, boats going faster but still not too fast have the right to overtake in a safe place and manner. The slower boat isn't being selfish and shouldn't be expected to wave a boat past in an unsuitable spot. The OP didn't seem to be complaining about passing or speed per se but the nature of the overtaking, where there was little visibility, twisty with lots of vegetation etc. Just seemed a somewhat irresponsible place to attempt the move, and fairly pointless considering how little time the boat in question apparently gained.

Not a rant there at all. It wasn't a working flyboat. He was a total, yeah you know. A winding bit so any malarkey like that is just stupid. No perfect speed, so he should get behind your speed, the idea of NBs going full tilt round shallow blind bends in a silted canal is ludicrous. I'd only really overtake on a canal if waved through or obviously necessary. Why the hurry for some people?

I've left the vent open for a couple of weeks and the amount that leaves the tank is significant. Sunny day, vapour out, cold night intake air, rinse and repeat and the tank after months is eventually empty. If that goes into the air no probs; if it is left in a sealed cabin it equals a bomb.

You can have not only the tank in the well but spare fuel in addition, total 27litres. For example, with a tiller steer outboard, a 12l main tank and a 5l fuel can, sitting directly in front of the engine, it is still less than 2/3 of the maximum portable fuel allowed. You have to sit next to the engine with hand over the tank to steer. When this boat was examined and passed in May only the 12l tank was there and it was the examiner who suggested a spare would fit in the remaining space. They can sit loose but the well has to drain overboard at its low point which this does. It was certainly easier to put them there than create a whole new box at one side to drain overboard. Putting the fuel tank on the cockpit floor would be a no-no obviously but I'm happy having it where it is in the well because the boat has an open cockpit with no canopy and no enclosing of the engine well with seating, the tank effectively sits in a tray open to the elements. You may sit next to it but you know petrol isn't getting into the bilges or vapour building up somewhere. The more confinement around fuel storage the more chance there will be of noticing smells when lifting lids, covers etc. Seating over the area is fine for BSS so long as fuel liquid and vapour can still drain overboard. Think of some boats like the Dawncraft where the outboard sits within the stern area rather than hanging off the back. Petrol storage is going to be within the confines of the canopy under the rear seating but still I don't see that many going bang if treated properly. We drive petrol cars, ride petrol bikes, use petrol tools; if respected dangers can be reduced on the water. My non canal boating over the years has often required small outboards and portable tanks for them and you just have to get used to sitting close to a very volatile liquid. As an example, since going from a diesel NB to this setup on the canal, I've given up the habit of a cigarette at the tiller!

Ouch! thanks for confirming, 'heavier use and less DIY work undertaken would all add to the hypothetical BOAT contingency costs for sure.' I've seen mention of shares down around the £50-60/mo mark for 1/12 of something in the 50-60' range but I assumed complexity of boat, DIY contribution and any home mooring can account for a wide range of share boat running costs. Getting your costs down to £4k on your own boat shows how it is certainly possible to make significant savings without neglecting the boat. If £4k was my annual max budget (still for the ideal 55' and with 50% time aboard) I would be splitting it at approx £1250 licence, insurance and BSS, £500 dry dock, DIY blacking and a few marina days, no home mooring, £500 diesel, coal+gas, leaving £1750 for engine servicing, BOAT maintenance and contingency (nearly £150 per month so still a fair chunk of change). As a reference the leisure use 60' NB that we had until last year would probably need a barebones budget in 2019 of about £1250 licence, insurance and BSS, £2k mooring, £250 diesel, coal and gas and £1500 pa min towards dry dock, engine servicing ,maintenance & contingency, £5k or just over £400/mo in total but £500 would be healthier or £6k pa (£100/ft) tallying with Neil2's figure of £4.5k for 45'. We still did most of the work, there was no TV etc, little electrical demand as I could manage fine without the fridge on and it did relatively few miles each year so the engine didn't get many hours of use, a calorifier, woodburner and gas oven. In essence there was a lot less to go wrong than the complicated systems a modern liveaboard boat may now have but the two house batteries still needed replacing every couple of years, so say £75pa of the budget. I tend to want to go to a boat year round to de-stress, so hire/share alone wouldn't work for me. On the other hand, I only need a tiny boat to still allow year round fun and a budget of under £150/mo all in would cover licence, mooring, ins, BSS, slipways and petrol for a simple old GRP boat up to 23', but this is still at the camping boating end of the scale and in no way would I propose attempting to live full time on something so small, but some do. Electric hookups, marina laundries and club showers can make them far more comfortable but I can still happily spend a sunny week on boats even smaller, under 20', pootling, fettling and reading, without standing headroom, fixed electric or gas and away from the luxuries of a mooring. Just that life doesn't allow that too often when work needs doing in the real world! Liveaboard or not, CC'ers can remove home mooring costs. Rescue cover is an extra that some may not need/want. Engines and systems like to be run on a regular basis so 52wks on the boat isn't necessarily the worst thing if the engine isn't running as much as share/hire. Depends on mileage/power/engine hours, number and lifestyle of the crew. A couple with two dogs, travelling every day, and family members coming over all the time, will put a bit more wear and tear on a boat than the single person at work all day, just leaving their marina mooring once a week for a few miles. My suggested figure of around £2500 pa into the maintenance and contingency is on the high side but was also intended to build up a cash pot reserve over the years for those 'once in a lifetime' big problems. Once the contingency fund is large enough this budget could be reduced a bit until a big problem eats out a chunk of it. Of course (as MtB and others mentioned) you then have to get the maintenance and contingency pot prepared asap for the next 'once in a lifetime' problem. Liveaboard isn't by definition hammering a boat, more caring custodian. If you're on the boat all the time you can address the small things quickly - minor vent leaks before they become a pain in the posterior of badly stained ply headlining if you don't see or fix the leak for some time. Boats are definitely cases of a stitch in time saves nine. Doing as much DIY as you can/want to do but being prepared to pay for pro services when you need is essential to keeping costs down in the short and long term. I'm sure 90% of owners have a few jobs that they really should do on their boat, mostly trivial but safety, the hull and engine ones should always be prioritised, and most owners will. The more time on it, the more time available to dedicate to its maintenance with free labour (and with boatyard prices what they are, you need to do as much as you can). tldr; The OP's overall BOAT fund of up to £700/mo and up for the DIY side still seems to have a perfectly healthy budget for the boat, use and inclusions being proposed.

Everybody's ideal boat for their lifestyle will be different so no figures are going to be one-size-fits-all. Possible to live on a 25' GRP cruiser, 50'NB, 60' widebeam. All and nobody's budgets are correct. So, being quick to point out some possible flaws in other posters' sums, I'll pin my figures to the mast and suggest my hypothetical necessary budget for my hypothetical perfect boat. Wouldn't want to liveaboard full time with no land base but would be on it round the year, half the time. The perfect boat at the moment would be approx 55'x6'10", modern build, modern engine, 20' two berth cabin, open canvas covered hold as workshop, bike & canoe storage etc, 100w solar panel on roof, 330Ah of house batts, small 12v fridge for summer, no TV, small inverter, no shoreline or 240v wiring, 12v wiring for engine, house lights etc, USB sockets, gas for stove/oven only, hot water from calorifier off engine, wood stove, northern mooring, out most of the time but not doing insane number of miles. I would do most work myself, barring the engine, below waterline welding and gas, it would be blacked by myself every second year but drydocked annually just to check below waterline, topsides painted DIY ongoing. For what some will think sounds a rather spartan use of a big steel hull, and for non liveaboard use, I would still expect to need to pay CRT fees under £1k Non-residential CRT or marina mooring of £1750-2.5k (up north) Insurance say £2-300 Rescue cover £2-300 (I appreciate a bit of help when things go wrong beyond my capabilities) Drydock days and a few days in marinas other than home mooring, say £500 per year (worked out over 2 yr DIY blacking cycle) BSS cert and minor bits for £60 per year (worked out over 4 year cycle) Engine servicing, basic filters, oil, grease, perished hoses etc DIY basis £120 Diesel <£500, coal <£150, gas <£150, cassette loo so no pumpout charges. Internet from tethering on existing phone, no TV, no shoreline electric costs. Things like food, phone bill, council tax etc that some liveaboards may include are part of my land life so are not included And on top of all that there would need to be the BOAT contingency fund of say £2500 per year and starting upfront with more. This would be to cover any necessary professional attention to engine, steelwork and gas. It would also cover DIY repairs, batteries, oils, paints, timber, broken pumps and plumbing, worn ropes, canvas, fenders, cabin internals and everything else. Unless the mooring was very expensive this would need to be the biggest expense in my calculations each year. If a surplus developed over the years greater than say the cost of supply and fitting of a new engine then monthly contribs to this could possibly be reduced a bit. All in these would add up to around £7500/yr or £625/mo and this would be a simple, non livedaboard boat! Currently in absolutely no position to get or run a boat like this but figures are based on experience of a few types of leisure boats and the cost of boating. More complicated systems, luxurious cabins, heavier use and less DIY work undertaken would all add to the hypothetical BOAT contingency costs for sure.

If OP thinks of the colours of the boats, were the warmest perhaps those with the darker coloured topsides?

As a share boat owner @robtheplod your boat will be active 48? weeks of the year so you can get a pretty good idea of boat running costs by multiplying out your existing annual costs and what they do/don't cover. I do suspect that those who are looking to liveaboard without any previous experience of boating costs (small boat outright or share) may seriously underestimate the costs of maintenance and upgrades. A big boat is not like a car, it's like a house and repairs/improvements cost serious money. If someone starts with a good 60-70' narrowboat they can probably get away with £50 a month on paint, plumbing, ropes, covers, woodwork, vents, batteries, electrics, for a short while as the boat deteriorates and then after some time something big will go wrong that demands 10 or 100 times that figure. This is the element that some seem to be overlooking but those individuals and syndicates with experience will be thinking of budgets over a period longer than a year.

We've always had dogs and always took them on the boats in summer. A boat can get hotter than a house, yes, but not like the mad temps in a glass all round, dark interior car. Lots of water, comfy spot under a table with curtains/blinds shut, small fans, all hopper windows open etc. Air con just seems an absolute non-starter in terms of power requirement and economics. Just as an off the wall thought, is it possible to go down through the floor on a boat and build a summer dog basket down close to the cool baseplate? The bilge is always a good place to keep bottles when you've no fridge and it's hot. On the other hand, as you mention widebeams, as pointed out in another thread, the whole space is probably completely crammed with ballast.

Boat looks mint Wayne. I bet you couldn't stop grinning.

Yes, she did!

Yes, to the OP please do post a photo if you have and as much info as you can about identifying features asap. Is her name painted on? Where? If a D27 has a new slap of white paint in that location it can be a lead. People may be able to keep an eye out for it better from features not an index number that may well have been removed. We realise that you will be exhausted and that you may well have posted to Facebook and other platforms too to try and track down your boat. Please do keep people up to date with positive developments from other platforms. It can pay off to pool a breadth of people but you do need to let each of them know when to stop searching. The cynical on here will be more willing to help, and they can, if you can quote a crime number when you get it. Good luck with recovering it, it must be gutting.

It was posted at 2am. I imagine the poor guy is frantic and exhausted. Having had my car stolen this week these things can cause massive chaos and consequences. Can we not just keep an eye out for it in the area in these crucial hours at least. I do suspect, however, that in the initial period after the theft it may just been cloned and been given the plates of another existing, unaware and innocent Dawncraft 27. A picture and important info is things like colour, curtains, any and all unique and identifying features, has it a chimney, vent types and location, is the hood perfect or tatty, does it have a scrape just above port rubbing strake, those kinds of things. Yes it is possible that like some thefts that turned out to be disputes or drunken forgetfulness but at least just be aware of any Dawncraft 27 around Warwick today.

Quite. I don't think there is any difference between standard private and roving trader where nobody comes on the boat, just needs standard BSS afaik. Anything like a walk on bookshop, sit in cafe, floatel etc BSS requirements will be more stringent so as Mike says, it will all depend on the type of business and role that the boat plays in offering it.

You have fun pal. So well deserved. Loved this project from field to water. It's what 'being into boats' is all about. A testament to your skills and patience.

If told, I could always dash back to my mooring in three days and reset the clock, currently 42 locks away. I could then waste a load of water to get back up here. At present I'm ambling, enjoying weeks in different places heading south. I'm trying to cruise like CC but knowing I have the home base if needed. eta: as Arthur points out moorings don't have to be stupid money. A 58?' one went at Bugsworth for £1605/yr. Not bad imho.

I've been on the Macc and Upper Peak for two months, six distinct spots and only eleven miles from where I went in to turning around at Bugsworth. Now close to where I was a month ago. Plenty of CCers around floating around the same spots but there is plenty of room. Some people have asked if i'm a continuous dumper but when I tell them I'm heading down to a mooring on the Shroppie their attitide changes.

I thought it was tempting fate to quote Towpath Talk from three months ago! When I read it I thought it had just been announced but that explains why in the short term licence fee pdf for 2019-20 there's no one day column now I look. Doh! As another aside, their tables do show that an unpowered portable craft is £53.71 for the full year long term (vs. £37.44 for a 30 day explorer). Add £20 for insurance and it still works out at less than £1.50 per week to be able to put a rowing boat in the canal whenever you want for a year.

I don't think you could get away with a dinghy under BCU membership (it's the person they license and insure to paddle) Hence for a powered anything it will be £112.31 for a 30 day explorer licence for a powered craft under 5.5m (use up the 30 days however you wish over the year) £20 for a year's 3rd party insurance (small craft under 11hp) Self certified safety declaration so no BSS cert needed Works out at about £4.40 per day of use, not bad for a bit of compliant fun! As an aside, it appears from Towpath Talk that the single day licences are to be phased out as too expensive on the admin side. Explorer type will remain eta: with the BCU membership, I think it would come down to some form of sit-down paddling (as opposed to rowing) with a single or double ended paddle in a craft that resembles a portable canoe or kayak. A dinghy fails on both the shape and two oars fronts. My cheap inflatable kayak is more like a cheap inflatable dinghy than a rigid sea kayak or Canadian canoe but it is paddled, not rowed, so BCU membership covers insurance and licence when I'm using it.

No BSS cert needed for open boat like this with outboard and without gas/electric BUT insurance and licence are necessary for anything from a canoe upwards. Rowing dinghy is a cheap licence as portable unpowered but the motor throws an expensive spanner in the plan. Get a canoe/kayak, pay £45 to the BCU and you're licensed & 3rd party insurance for a year.