Are the following Narrow boat selling sites legitimate?

[weswally]

Hi !

 

I'm really interested in buying a Narrow boat to cruise England and live on board, and have come across some legitimate, and some not so legitimate websites, websites selling really good looking narrowboats for really cheap?

 

Does anyone recognise the following sites?

 

http://loot.com/

 

http://www.boatzone.co.uk/

 

http://www.boatsforsaleuk.co.uk/

 

Some of the Narrow boats are selling for around £6000 -£7000, and they look better than boats on apolloduck selling for £25k +

 

Could anyone help me?

 

Much appreciated,

 

Wes

[carlt]

All three websites are "legitimate" but that doesn't necessarily mean that the advertisers using them are.

 

£10k for that Measham Boats 57 footer?....I don't think so!

[kevinl]

Some are legit sales, some aren't before anyone else says it "if it seems too good to be true it probably is".

Having got that out of the way my best advise is to look at the ad then check the boats out by googling the boat name then on the link below, some simply don't seem to exist. Next look for the obvious rubbish like "free UK postal delivery" be one hell of a letterbox to get a 50 foot narrowboat through and quite a long hall.

Pick on some strange or unusual combination of words and google them with an exact word match, scammers are so lazy they usually lift the whole ad so you'll find both the scammers ad and the real one. Zoom in on the pics and see if you can read the licence plate and boat name, real owners show the outside, scammers usually don't, too much of a give away.

If you do find a legitimate boat selling for massively under the perceived value then you have to ask why, bad survey and someone looking for a sucker? Most people overestimate the value of their boat then put some on so they can get knocked down. Unless you find someone so far out of touch that they'll sell you a boat for peanuts (possibly living under a bridge) then it's a normally a scam.

It's now rife in the boat, campervan, caravan market cloning an ad and setting up a fake listing, if you see an ad for as boat you like then put it on here and ask or PM it to someone who might help, the Miss Marples and Sherlock Holmes's on here will soon put you right. (after they've corrected my grammer)

K

 

http://canalplan.org.uk/boats/

[Paul C]

Detecting the scam is really easy. You'd have to be a lunatic to buy a boat without seeing it, so go and see it......the scams rely on you paying a deposit and buying unsighted.

[Southern Star]

Fake advert (£5,150).... http://www.boatsforsaleuk.co.uk/starcross-narrowboat-traditional-stern-with-new-isuzu-engine-2270/

 

Real advert (£29,000)... http://narrowboatstarcross.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/starcross-is-for-sale.html

[MtB]

 

Some of the Narrow boats are selling for around £6000 -£7000, and they look better than boats on apolloduck selling for £25k +

 

Could anyone help me?

 

 

Yes! Engage your 'common sense' radar.

 

Put yourself in the seller's shoes and ask yourself why anyone would sell a £25k boat for £6-7k. I think you'll eventually conclude that they wouldn't.

 

Now armed with this conclusion, think about why the advert is there. Why did someone actually stump up real money to advertise a £25k item for £6-7k?

 

About the only conclusion one can come to is that the boat doesn't exist, and they are hoping to tempt you to pay for it in advance of collecting it, and that they can successfully vanish into the ether with your money, leaving you with no boat.

 

I can't think of any other reason. Can you?

 

MtB

P.S. If you are still doubtful, try responding to one of these adverts and striking a deal where first you get the boat, THEN you pay the money. Do report back if you succeed!

[junior]

 

 

Yes! Engage your 'common sense' radar.

 

Put yourself in the seller's shoes and ask yourself why anyone would sell a £25k boat for £6-7k. I think you'll eventually conclude that they wouldn't.

 

Now armed with this conclusion, think about why the advert is there. Why did someone actually stump up real money to advertise a £25k item for £6-7k?

 

About the only conclusion one can come to is that the boat doesn't exist, and they are hoping to tempt you to pay for it in advance of collecting it, and that they can successfully vanish into the ether with your money, leaving you with no boat.

 

I can't think of any other reason. Can you?

 

MtB

 

P.S. If you are still doubtful, try responding to one of these adverts and striking a deal where first you get the boat, THEN you pay the money. Do report back if you succeed!

Perhaps that post should become 'pinned'.

 

It seems a weekly occurrence at the moment that someone comes on here starting a thread asking if a certain boat is legitimate. I don't mind reading the same questions every week but I'm getting a bit embarrassed on behalf of the OP's that they actually have to ask in the first place.

[weswally]

 

Pick on some strange or unusual combination of words and google them with an exact word match, scammers are so lazy they usually lift the whole ad so you'll find both the scammers ad and the real one. Zoom in on the pics and see if you can read the licence plate and boat name, real owners show the outside, scammers usually don't, too much of a give away.

 

 

Thanks kevini for the tips!

 

I usually google search the boats name, and then search google images. It comes up with an array of different interior and exterior shots from multiple websites of the same boat. Obviously some of these websites prices seem to good to be true, and the websites themselves feel like they were thrown together to con a few scams then disappear into the ether...

Fake advert (£5,150).... http://www.boatsforsaleuk.co.uk/starcross-narrowboat-traditional-stern-with-new-isuzu-engine-2270/

 

Real advert (£29,000)... http://narrowboatstarcross.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/starcross-is-for-sale.html

 

Brillliant mate! haha!

[Athy]

Fake advert (£5,150).... http://www.boatsforsaleuk.co.uk/starcross-narrowboat-traditional-stern-with-new-isuzu-engine-2270/

 

Real advert (£29,000)... http://narrowboatstarcross.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/starcross-is-for-sale.html

The quoted boat length of 50 metres in the cheaper advert is a bit of a giveaway.

[MtB]

The quoted boat length of 50 metres in the cheaper advert is a bit of a giveaway.

 

Starcross looks a superb bargain even at the real price of £29k!

 

Sold now no doubt.

 

I wonder how many times

 

 

MtB

[Pete & Helen]

Hi !

 

I'm really interested in buying a Narrow boat to cruise England and live on board, and have come across some legitimate, and some not so legitimate websites, websites selling really good looking narrowboats for really cheap?

 

Does anyone recognise the following sites?

 

http://loot.com/

 

http://www.boatzone.co.uk/

 

http://www.boatsforsaleuk.co.uk/

 

Some of the Narrow boats are selling for around £6000 -£7000, and they look better than boats on apolloduck selling for £25k +

 

Could anyone help me?

 

Much appreciated,

 

Wes

 

If you do a bit of searching you can normally find the real advert.

one of the boats you saw for £10K

http://loot.com/leisure-and-lifestyle/boats-and-watersports/mitcham-greater-london-cr4-2qa/measham-boats-57ft-narrowboat-3687794ad/(f)/search

 

is in fact up for £49,950 on here, the real advert

 

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Canal-Narrow-Boats-for-sale/starline-measham/27266

 

I've reported this one to the owners (via the real advert) just in case the scam affects then

Edited July 28, 2014 by Pete & Helen

[weswally]

 

If you do a bit of searching you can normally find the real advert.

one of the boats you saw for £10K

http://loot.com/leisure-and-lifestyle/boats-and-watersports/mitcham-greater-london-cr4-2qa/measham-boats-57ft-narrowboat-3687794ad/(f)/search

 

is in fact up for £49,950 on here, the real advert

 

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/Canal-Narrow-Boats-for-sale/starline-measham/27266

 

I've reported this one to the owners (via the real advert) just in case the scam affects then

 

Thanks Pete & Helen,

 

Here's another website to look out for:

 

http://www.pumaprint.co.uk/boats-for-sale/1994-leet-gien-ii-40-ft-traditional-narrowboat/

 

This boat listed is too good to be true. I tried calling the "owner" last night, and the number didn't exist...

[MtB]

 

This boat listed is too good to be true. I tried calling the "owner" last night, and the number didn't exist...

 

 

The boat certainly does though, the owner is a forum member here!

 

I remember commenting on that same photo that there appears to be no tiller....

 

 

MtB

[Pete & Helen]

 

 

The boat certainly does though, the owner is a forum member here!

 

I remember commenting on that same photo that there appears to be no tiller....

 

 

MtB

 

 

 

Thanks Pete & Helen,

 

Here's another website to look out for:

 

http://www.pumaprint.co.uk/boats-for-sale/1994-leet-gien-ii-40-ft-traditional-narrowboat/

 

This boat listed is too good to be true. I tried calling the "owner" last night, and the number didn't exist...

 

Not sure if it has been sold yet but it was up for sale by the owner on here late last year April this year on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40-ft-Traditional-Narrowboat-1994-Build-Excellent-Condition-Reduced-Price-/131154197389?ViewItem=&item=131154197389&nma=true&si=cHs202S4uwNriEcHh5F6KWpaeMs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=60369&hl=leet

Edited July 28, 2014 by Pete & Helen

[Tony Brooks]

A bit off topic but it would be very easy to stop all this type of scam. Simply make the person/company that actually publishes or facilitates the publishing of adverts jointly libel with the seller. That way if you got conned the the scammers friendly advert sites would have to pay your refund. Overnight midst much screaming and wailing ebay etc. suddenly find out how to vet adverts

[Paul C]

eBay already has a buyer's money back guarantee scheme.

[Southern Star]

Just for interest's sake,here is how my conversation is going.

 

Me- Hello, I like your boat, it's just what I am looking for,could I view it sometime?

 

"Isabella Lucy Sinclair". Hi,

This boat its just perfect, Immaculate condition, no damages, once with the boat you will also get all the equipment my husband had. All necessary documents available. My current location is Ellon in Scotland, (Search these forums for "Ellon" to see other examples of this same scammer's work) i`m 56 years old, my husband died 2 months ago. If this is going to be a quick sale, I will list it on eBay for £6,700 delivered at my costs.

I decided to list it on eBay with a buy it now option and whoever wins it will be the next owner. I assume you already have an account with eBay. If not please register and let me know when you are ready so I can just email you the link.

If you'd like to secure the deal before anybody else does, then please buy it on eBay. Feel free to ask me any questions.

The deal will go strictly according to eBay Money Back Guarantee Protection Buyer rules and policy.

Thank you

Me- Thank you, but would it be possible to view the boat sometime?

Isabella Lucy Sinclair-

Hello,

The best way to complete this transaction, because of the distance problem (I'm in Ellon, the boat is already in eBay custody, into their warehouse here in Scotland), is to use eBay Money Back Guarantee. They will handle everything for both of us, including transportation and transfer of the boat papers to your name. You don't have to pay anything extra, the total price that you must pay for this boat is £6,700.

Here is how the transaction will go on:

-I will make a private eBay listing for you.

-You will have to click "buy it now", fill in the forms and follow the instructions.

-eBay will send you an invoice with all the transaction details and the payment instructions.

-You will have to secure the funds to eBay.

-After the funds will be secured to eBay, the delivery will begin and the boat will arrive to you in max. 48 hours.

-When the boat will be in your custody, you will have a 3 days inspection period. If everything is alright, the transaction ends and eBay will release the money to me. If there is something wrong with the boat, you will be fully refunded and I'll get my boat back too, without any extra fees.

Everything is covered by eBay. I will get paid only after you confirm that you received it. I would need your ebay username so I can send you the link. I'm waiting for your reply.

Thank you.

Me- But would it be possible to view the boat sometime, at the warehouse for example?

I'll let this run as long as I can, particularly as the scammer will almost certainly be having to pay for the internet connection on a pence per minute basis and update it as things progress..

 

[Paul C]

Yes, of course I didn't write out all the terms and conditions of eBay's money back guarantee!!! Suffice to say, its mainly for small/lowish value transactions where you order something and it doesn't arrive on time, or is broken in transit, or doesn't work etc. With "collection only" items then the buyer has the onus to inspect the item before paying for it, when they go collect it. And for delivered items, despite it being the law that a buyer of a bad sale must be fully compensated for their trouble, eBay don't insist on a seller paying return postage costs for defective items. So there's holes in the scheme which unscrupulous sellers can still take advantage of. eBay has, or is trying to shake off, its poor reputation for junk being traded on it, so has made things easier for buyers and harder for sellers recently.

 

Southern Star's illustration of how the scam pans out is very common and screams "scam" all over it - you'd have to be very foolish to fall for it. Unfortunately, there are fools out there, especially those who think they can sniff out a bargain, and there seems to be a sliding scale where "dodginess of transaction" is weighed against "low price" and people still go ahead.

[Tiller Trash]

Just for interest's sake,here is how my conversation is going.

 

Me- Hello, I like your boat, it's just what I am looking for,could I view it sometime?

"Isabella Lucy Sinclair". Hi,

This boat its just perfect, Immaculate condition, no damages, once with the boat you will also get all the equipment my husband had. All necessary documents available. My current location is Ellon in Scotland, (Search these forums for "Ellon" to see other examples of this same scammer's work) i`m 56 years old, my husband died 2 months ago. If this is going to be a quick sale, I will list it on eBay for £6,700 delivered at my costs.

I decided to list it on eBay with a buy it now option and whoever wins it will be the next owner. I assume you already have an account with eBay. If not please register and let me know when you are ready so I can just email you the link.

If you'd like to secure the deal before anybody else does, then please buy it on eBay. Feel free to ask me any questions.

The deal will go strictly according to eBay Money Back Guarantee Protection Buyer rules and policy.

Thank you

Me- Thank you, but would it be possible to view the boat sometime?

Isabella Lucy Sinclair-

Hello,

The best way to complete this transaction, because of the distance problem (I'm in Ellon, the boat is already in eBay custody, into their warehouse here in Scotland), is to use eBay Money Back Guarantee. They will handle everything for both of us, including transportation and transfer of the boat papers to your name. You don't have to pay anything extra, the total price that you must pay for this boat is £6,700.

Here is how the transaction will go on:

-I will make a private eBay listing for you.

-You will have to click "buy it now", fill in the forms and follow the instructions.

-eBay will send you an invoice with all the transaction details and the payment instructions.

-You will have to secure the funds to eBay.

-After the funds will be secured to eBay, the delivery will begin and the boat will arrive to you in max. 48 hours.

-When the boat will be in your custody, you will have a 3 days inspection period. If everything is alright, the transaction ends and eBay will release the money to me. If there is something wrong with the boat, you will be fully refunded and I'll get my boat back too, without any extra fees.

Everything is covered by eBay. I will get paid only after you confirm that you received it. I would need your ebay username so I can send you the link. I'm waiting for your reply.

Thank you.

Me- But would it be possible to view the boat sometime, at the warehouse for example?

I'll let this run as long as I can, particularly as the scammer will almost certainly be having to pay for the internet connection on a pence per minute basis and update it as things progress..

 

That first reply you got is the exact word for word reply I got to emails re two different boats on two different websites! Neither were advertised as being in Scotland, both were supposedly in the Midlands.

 

Also, Whimbrel, which was really for sale at Norbury Wharf, I know cos I viewed it, for £19k, was on another site, supposedly located in Leicester, for £12k. They had lifted the full advert from eBay (Norbury genuinely list their boats on eBay), the photos, the exact description, the lot, just replacing the location and price!

 

So be very careful and assume they're out to scam you. Email and ask to view, the scammers often request money up front. Or phone (scammers don't answer).

 

I asked this very same question, albeit about a couple of other sites, a few weeks ago. Hang around here and read the forums, and do a lot of searches. Next to the search box there's a button to do an advanced search. Click that, then put a keyword or two in the keyword box. Then use the drop down to only search in titles. Doing this I've learned a hell of a lot from these guys over the last few weeks! Good luck

[muddywaters]

 

 

Yes! Engage your 'common sense' radar.

 

Put yourself in the seller's shoes and ask yourself why anyone would sell a £25k boat for £6-7k. I think you'll eventually conclude that they wouldn't.

 

Now armed with this conclusion, think about why the advert is there. Why did someone actually stump up real money to advertise a £25k item for £6-7k?

 

About the only conclusion one can come to is that the boat doesn't exist, and they are hoping to tempt you to pay for it in advance of collecting it, and that they can successfully vanish into the ether with your money, leaving you with no boat.

 

I can't think of any other reason. Can you?

 

MtB

P.S. If you are still doubtful, try responding to one of these adverts and striking a deal where first you get the boat, THEN you pay the money. Do report back if you succeed!

Or even get to see the boat before deciding to hand over any money

[weswally]

I asked this very same question, albeit about a couple of other sites, a few weeks ago. Hang around here and read the forums, and do a lot of searches. Next to the search box there's a button to do an advanced search. Click that, then put a keyword or two in the keyword box. Then use the drop down to only search in titles. Doing this I've learned a hell of a lot from these guys over the last few weeks! Good luck

 

 

Alright, thanks Trailer Trash, will do.

 

I'll definitely be steering clear of these bait offers, and am grateful for your help guys. Thanks to Pete & Helen for their in depth memory bank of boats for sale too! Funny how it was for sale on these forums for £30k, only a few months ago but now on these scamming sites for £6700. Abysmal.

[MtB]

 

 

Alright, thanks Trailer Trash, will do.

 

I'll definitely be steering clear of these bait offers, and am grateful for your help guys. Thanks to Pete & Helen for their in depth memory bank of boats for sale too! Funny how it was for sale on these forums for £30k, only a few months ago but now on these scamming sites for £6700. Abysmal.

 

 

I really think you need to grasp the difference between a scamming site, and scamming advertiser.

 

The scamming advertisers we are discussing are posting their scam adverts on legitimate sales sites like ebay, loot, apolloduck etc.

 

MtB

Edited July 28, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Tony Brooks]

Technically yes, but practically unless these sites take EFFECTIVE action to weed out the scammers they are aiding and abetting the scam so are csamming sites. Without the site the scammer would have to do things differently.

[MtB]

Technically yes, but practically unless these sites take EFFECTIVE action to weed out the scammers they are aiding and abetting the scam so are csamming sites. Without the site the scammer would have to do things differently.

 

I disagree.

 

There is a world of difference between a site accepting adverts from all and sundry, including both honest AND dishonest sellers, and sites set up specifically to fleece potential customers.

 

Ebay is NOT is the same category as clone bank websites for example, or sites set up to sell bogus pop festival tickets with no intention of ever supplying the tickets.

 

Extending the principle of your suggestion, would you like to see the Royal Mail held responsible for the accuracy and honesty of the sellers who print the junk mail they deliver?

 

 

MtB

[Paul C]

What checks does THIS site do to ensure items in the classifieds area are legitimate?