Anchor size

[bigcol]

I've searched the forum, been on line, plenty of mixed answers

 

So what is the right size danforth anchor should be used on a 57ft x 10 ft wide beam.

Approx weight 27 tons. Use on rivers uk.

I am not as strong as I should be, but relise that it's going to be heavy,

But if I was in a situation that I couldn't weigh anchor I rather loose it knowing that it may have saved us and our boat.

 

Looking forward to everyone agreeing on a size

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Col

Edited January 21, 2014 by bigcol

[Neil2]

You don't say what type you favour, I'd go for a CQR type or Bruce on a widebeam as you would presumably have somewhere to stow it, and I reckon at least 30 kilos. Do you have a winch?

[bigcol]

Hi

 

Don't have a winch, and thought the Danforth would store easier on the front deck ?

 

Col

[Alan de Enfield]

If you use all chain (as opposed to rope and a short length of chain) you can use a lighter anchor.

Anchor design wil have a huge afect on your choice / weight for example :

 

A 22 ton weight boat should use a Bruce design abchor of about 25kgs and a Danforth design anchor of about 40+ kgs

And use 12 or 13mm chain at least 3x the maximun expected depth of water.

 

I dont have the figures for a 27 ton boat

If you are unable to lift, lower and control the 'dropping' of the anchor I would suggest you need to find some mechanised way to do it.

 

If you are insistent in going for the Danforth design anchors (not the best design by any means) you are going to need a 50kg (ish) anchor - thats equivalent to 2x 25kg bags of coal - can you lift this ?

 

If you just 'push / drop' it over the side and the chain piles up on top of it it will not 'set' and do its job.

You need to deploy it slowly so that the river current is moving you slowly backwards, setting the anchor and playing out the chain,

[blackrose]

Presumably in an emergency situation on a river, the current would always be moving the boat along so that the chain would play out, even if some of it happened to land on the anchor?

 

I have a 30kg stockless and a 20kg Danforth both at the bow.

 

I also don't believe that one design of anchor is better or has more holding power than another per se. It really depends on the type of waterway and the formation/composition of the riverbed, so one anchor can only be described as being better than another (for its weight), if it is more suitable for the situations encountered.

 

http://www.euphoriasailing.com/Marine-Engineering/Anchor-selection.htm

Edited January 21, 2014 by blackrose

[Grace and Favour]

We (36 tonne) use an 36 Kg Halls anchor with all 10mm chain - - - needless to say we have a windlass!

 

We've only ever needed to use it in an emergency once - on the river Trent.

 

We, and the anchor, are still here to tell the tale.

[Neil2]

I agree with Alan - the Danforth's only advantage is that it stows easier then other types which is why they are popular on narrowboats. A Bruce type would probably be best for a big heavy boat like yours.

 

Hauling a heavy anchor by hand is serious work though, especially if you use all chain. I recall being out on a flash Yacht once and I was asked to haul in the anchor only to find there was no winch. I only just managed it. The explanation offered was that "Yachts like these never expect to set anchor - they expect to be moor up in a marina every night..."

[Alan de Enfield]

Presumably in an emergency situation on a river, the current would always be moving the boat along so that the chain would play out, even if some of it happened to land on the anchor?

 

I have a 30kg stockless and a 20kg Danforth both at the bow.

 

I also don't believe that one design of anchor is better or has more holding power than another per se. It really depends on the type of waterway and the formation/composition of the riverbed, so one anchor can only be described as being better than another (for its weight), if it is more suitable for the situations encountered.

 

http://www.euphoriasailing.com/Marine-Engineering/Anchor-selection.htm

 

My experience of anchoring is with 'lumpy-water' boats, when you come to anchor there is always a wind, and ususually a tide running - usually well in excess of river flows (unless really in flood)

Dropping a 30kg anchor over the side, followed by another 30 or 40 kgs of chain will result in a 'heap of metal on the bottom' a 5 knot tide will not move the boat backwards fast enough to avoid a 'pile-up' and even the link you posted states :

 

"......drop your anchor, reverse or drift away letting the chain or warp (rope) out in a straight line. Avoid dropping the chain and warp in a pile on top of the anchor".

 

Even in an emergency situation (and probably more so, as you may only get one chance before the weir comes up) you must pay-out the anchor and chain.

[smileypete]

Maybe ask on the YBW forums too, quite a lot of lumpy water/thames boaters are on there.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[bigcol]

Use to anchor a lot many years back, but had electric winch, and smallish Bruce but boat was 40 ft and plastic.

 

I really never gave it a thought re the weight needed for a steel boat until now

 

Ive got one large storage locker which has 2 gas bottles, may think of splitting it and putting a winch on

I'm sure the large locker is for gas but will have to have a look tomorrow to see if I can make a separate and only have one bottle

And other part for chain

and store anchor out side somewhere.

 

If not then lots of chain, and adrenalin will have to do im afraid re paying out the chain

 

Colin

Edited January 21, 2014 by bigcol

[bigcol]

And what size chain please, as i would like to buy a anchor which is on eBay

Many thanks again

Colin

[Keeping Up]

It is perhaps worth thinking about why you need an anchor. You need one that is big enough to hold the boat in a current in an emergency, but do you want to use it at other times as well? If so, it may be worth having a smaller one as well, one that perhaps you could deploy in gentle non-emergency conditions, for example when you just want to stop the boat swinging around too much. You need only have one rope/chain and attach whichever one is appropriate to the circumstances.

 

On our narrowboat for example, several times this summer I moored with one end of the boat securely tied to a good bit of bank but the other end of the boat pointing downstream and held in place by nothing more than a 56lb mud-weight because there wasn't any suitable bank. I certainly wouldn't use my big heavy anchor for that purpose.

[KJT]

I am not as strong as I should be, but relise that it's going to be heavy,

But if I was in a situation that I couldn't weigh anchor I rather loose it knowing that it may have saved us and our boat.

 

Col

If you are looking for something a little easier to handle you could have a look at the 'Fortress' range of Danforth type anchors. Chandlers such as Marine Superstore or Force 4 stock them. They are about half the weight of a standard Danforth.

They are VERY expensive though!

 

Ken

[KJT]

 

On our narrowboat for example, several times this summer I moored with one end of the boat securely tied to a good bit of bank but the other end of the boat pointing downstream and held in place by nothing more than a 56lb mud-weight because there wasn't any suitable bank. I certainly wouldn't use my big heavy anchor for that purpose.

A couple of mud weights are a very useful piece of kit. Especially if mooring in an area where mooring lines being released/cut is not uncommon.

As a back up for your main lines, they can stop your boat drifting away.

[bigcol]

I've found this on fleabag, wonder if this be usefull for me?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simpson-Laurence-Manual-2-speed-Windlass-plus-50m-38-chain-/321303004660

 

Re chain would this be okay?

 

Or this ?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261378153242?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.

 

Many thanks fo the info

 

Col

 

Edited re spelling

Edited January 22, 2014 by bigcol

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes they would 'do' the job.

 

If the river is (say) 4 metres deep then you will need to pay out about 12-15 metres, if you pay out all of the 50 metres and the river is less than 100 metres wide then you are going to swing into the side so you need a method of 'stopping' the chain paying out.

 

When using a 'chain winch' you MUST use only 'calibrated' chain - this is chain in which each of the links are manufactured to a tight tolerance so they are all the same - and fit the 'winch'.

 

Un-calibrated chain is much, much cheaper, but as the links vary in size they will jam up in the 'winch teeth'

 

Electric is easier to use (if you have a power supply)

 

This would probably suit - depending on chain size, power etc - questions would need to be asked.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Simpson-Lawrence-sea-wolf-Boat-Anchor-Windlass-NICE-CONDITION-/221355974585?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item3389d81fb9

 

Anchoring Tips

 

1) An anchor should only be deployed from the bow.

2) Ensure that the end of the chain is attached to a strong point on the boat.

3) Ensure the anchor is ready to be deployed 'instantly' - its no use having to get it out of a locker and then attach it to the chain.

4) Keep the biggest anchor you have on board attached to the chain. In an emergency thats the one you want.

5) As long as you can deploy it 'the bigger the better'

[bigcol]

Having a electric winch, It would have to be second hand, I would think it would have to be very big if having to pull up 25/30 kg anchor and chain.

 

I have got 2 bow thruster battery's that I could use?

 

Also just been up to have a look, the front locker which is quite big,

can I board a third of it to separating the gas bottle and the chain totaly apart?

Strong of course, to to bottom, ie thinking of BSS

As BSS don't like it if we have stuff in the gas locker, and for reason?

 

All the best

 

Col

Edited January 22, 2014 by bigcol

[Alan de Enfield]

Having a electric winch, It would have to be second hand, I would think it would have to be very big if having to pull up 25/30 kg anchor and chain.

No problem they are low geared and powerful, you will need a 'deck-pipe to feed the chain down into the locker

I have got 2 bow thruster battery's that I could use?

Ideal

 

Also just been up to have a look, the front locker which is quite big,

can I board a third of it to separating the gas bottle and the chain totaly apart?

Strong of course, to to bottom, ie thinking of BSS

Sounds an ideal solution as long as the 'board' is strong enough not to move if the anchor chain, or the gas bottles fall against it

As BSS don't like it if we have stuff in the gas locker, and for reason?

 

All the best

 

Col

 

This may help to make things a litle clearer

 

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/WestAdvisorView?langId=-1&storeId=11151&page=Anchor-Windlasses

[Keeping Up]

Anchoring Tips

 

1) An anchor should only be deployed from the bow.

2) Ensure that the end of the chain is attached to a strong point on the boat.

3) Ensure the anchor is ready to be deployed 'instantly' - its no use having to get it out of a locker and then attach it to the chain.

4) Keep the biggest anchor you have on board attached to the chain. In an emergency thats the one you want.

5) As long as you can deploy it 'the bigger the better'

Some good advice except that it's not a good idea to deploy an anchor from the bow if you've got the current behind you in a river that is narrower than the boat is long.

[Alan de Enfield]

............... a river that is narrower than the boat is long.

 

We call such things 'Streams', 'Ditches' or 'Drains'

 

IDEALLY (and if possible) anchor from the bow. Once an anchor is set it will tend to pull down the boat at the point at which it is attached to the boat,

Generally boats are lower at the stern and there is a possibility of the stern being pulled down low enough to allow water into. fittings, or even over the deck boards.

 

If you can get the pointy-bit into the flow there is much less resistance and less tendency for the anchor to drag - compared to a 'square' back end with the anchor attached to one side cleat, and the boat pulling at an angle.

[George94]

Whilst chain is the strongest and most durable material for an anchor rode, you pay a "heavy" price for those qualities, not least of which may be a good winch.

 

A more economical and practical alternative is to use nylon rope (apart from the first 5 metres or so, which should always be chain to help the anchor set).

 

With chain, the catenary provides a natural form of spring to reduce snatch when the anchor bites. Nylon is naturally stretchy, and this is why climbers use it. They don't want to be cut in half when they fall off a cliff face.

 

Although rope can abrade, this is unlikely to be an issue given that most canal and river boaters will seldom if ever use their anchor.

[bigcol]

Thanks all

I've now bought a manual 2 speed winch, that came off a 50 ft steel ketch, of eBay

 

I also had the chance of trying to lift some anchors, and have now bought a 25kg britany anchor, I'm afraid it was all I could lift.

But advice from the forum matches Internet and a old sea dog.

 

Plenty of 3/8 or 1/2 chain, using mainly heavy chain,

 

Col

[Alan de Enfield]

Glad you are 'sorted'

 

A 25kg Brittany is a bit 'light'. If you need to deploy your anchor it will most likely be in an emergency situation so you want it to 'set' and hold. Plenty of chain will help but I would suggest tying a weight 4 or 5 metres 'up the chain' from the anchor - any weight will help but the bigger the better.

[bigcol]

Hi Alan

 

I did try 35 kg but it was a no no

 

I'm now lol got the manuals out for boat, dry weight of boat was 18000 kg without engine

 

When you mean add a weight up the chain, what do you mean, something like a mud anchor or ?, ive got the winch now, but do want to be safe.

 

Thanks for the advice

 

Col

[Alan de Enfield]

Col - anything really, maybe a lump of concrete, a cast iron weight, a steel weight - 10kg, 15kg, 20 kg

 

The idea is to keep the tail end of the anchor (where the chain attaches) parallel to the river bottom, when the boat 'surges' in the flow / tide it lifts the front of the boat which lifts the tail of the anchor meaning the flukes are not dug in at the optimim angle and the anchor could drag, If an anchor is 'heavy enough' and the chain is long enough to absorb the lift and fall then everyhing is hunky-dory.

 

If the anchor is a 'bit light' then the lift and fall of the chain could lift the tail of the anchor - however if you have a weight tied onto the chain (literally ties on with a bit of 8mm 'rope') then this additional weight will take the 'rise and fall' of the chain without affecting the anchor.

 

This is all 'worse case scenario' but I would rather be a 'bit over the top' and know that once the anchor is down it'll keep the boat in place.

Most of my years boating have been on Sea boats and it is common practice to anchor and you get used to it - but - as narrowboaters (or Fat-Boats) we dont tend to anchor unless its an emergency and its then we want it to definately hold.

 

Be happy & keep safe

 

Edit for fat finger spoling

Edited January 28, 2014 by Alan de Enfield