Vetus Generator Question. Got me puzzled

[Biggles]

I'm working on turning my 240v genset to a 12v DC (14.8v).

 

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The control panel has a number of auto shutdown protections one of which is low revs, the others are oil pressure and exhaust gas temp.

 

The stop solenoid on this engine is a energise to stop sort. It's a 2cly Mitsubishi.

 

Once the engine drops below 1600 rpm it automatically shuts off, however if I remove one of the relays it can be dropped to tic over. The problem with this is the stop button doesn't work and I would suspect the other auto shutoffs will not work.

 

Does anyone have knowledge on how this setup is working and how I can get it to accept a lower RPM?

 

 

[Keith M]

can you post a wiring schematic

 

Do know how the rpm is monitored

 

Keith

[Biggles]

can you post a wiring schematic

 

Do know how the rpm is monitored

 

Keith

 

Doubtful on the wiring diag. There is a lot on the board. I can send a picture but not sure it will help. As for how the RPM is monitored I have no idea. I would suspect as its a 240v genset its been calibrated to see a catastrophic drop in RPM due to overload (and I have achieved this) and cut out to protect itself.

[Dalslandia]

The RPM information is frequence or voltage information I guess, in the item that kill the engine, there is some adjustment that can be don?

 

[Keith M]

Is there a RPM monitoring device screwed into the fly wheel housing?

 

I will see if I have the schematic for your generator over the week-end.

 

Keith

[Biggles]

Is there a RPM monitoring device screwed into the fly wheel housing?

 

I will see if I have the schematic for your generator over the week-end.

 

Keith

Nothing I can easily see. The genset is Vetus 6.5GHS but I think it's the same panel on the bigger ones.

[Biggles]

Is there a RPM monitoring device screwed into the fly wheel housing?

 

I will see if I have the schematic for your generator over the week-end.

 

Keith

Nothing I can easily see. The genset is Vetus 6.5GHS but I think it's the same panel on the bigger ones.

[Biggles]

Th

 

Is there a RPM monitoring device screwed into the fly wheel housing?

 

I will see if I have the schematic for your generator over the week-end.

 

Keith

 

 

This is the panel and the large relay on the right is the one I can remove to slow the engine but it has to be back in to stop the engine.

 

 

The 4 wires in the foreground are related to the auto shutdowns.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Biggles

[Justme]

It will be monitoring the htz of the ac output.

 

Once its down to about 40-45htz it will shut it down.

 

I would replace the existing unit with a universal genny control / auto start module.

 

Just get one that can have the htz monitoring removed.

 

A dirty work around would be to fit the smallest inverter you can find to the dc output & move the sensor wire to the inverter.

[Biggles]

I can see how this would work however the genset is now a 12v DC set so no connection to the AC alternator exists or indeed ever did. This panel is not and never has had a feed from the generating end. Its totally engine.

 

This is the current project on my blog to give a better idea of the whole project.

[Dalslandia]

Is there a 12V alternator on the engine? the RPM info can come from that.

I guess there is 1500 and 3000 rpm control panels?

I was looking at the vetus manuals yesterday but did not found any info on low rpm shutdown

Maybe a potensiometer to adjust or a chip to replace?

If alternator is the source, what if gearing it up in speed??

 

Jan

[Biggles]

Is there a 12V alternator on the engine? the RPM info can come from that.

I guess there is 1500 and 3000 rpm control panels?

I was looking at the vetus manuals yesterday but did not found any info on low rpm shutdown

Maybe a potensiometer to adjust or a chip to replace?

If alternator is the source, what if gearing it up in speed??

 

Jan

 

I wondered about that Jan. Yes its a possibility but I can't see any connection to the panel from the alternator, A friend of mine has found this wiring diagram on page 6,7,8 if that helps anyone work out how to make it work at lower revs.

 

ETA

 

Infact the more I think about it it has to be the alternator. When the V belt broke a while back it stopped.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Biggles

[smileypete]

On the circuit diagram on page 6 of the download, DYN-L looks to be a dynamo output warning, which comes in on the orange wire. If the dynamo is running slow, maybe it's triggered and stopping the engine, so might be worth giving it a try with it disconnected.

 

Apart from that on that board I can't see anything else which might be associated with engine speed.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 27, 2013 by smileypete

[Biggles]

The alternator did indeed prove to be the culprit. I disconnected wires and it turned out to be the green wire alternator end but curiously the board end of the wire disconnected didn't have the desired result. So thanks for all the help and suggestions. Once again the forum demonstrates the power of combined knowledge and skills.

[smileypete]

Strange, green wire look like it's exhaust temp, maybe the cooling air from the genny head.

 

BTW if the genny batt is kept powered from a dynamo or 12V alternator, probably worth checking it still works well enough at the lower RPM to keep the genny batt charged.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 27, 2013 by smileypete

[Dalslandia]

If it was shoting the engine down with a input, and not without the input, it would help to disconect it, can you see any alternative bridge over, or what it is called in english, or look at the 1500 and 3000 rpm panels for differences.

 

it might have different pulleys on the alternator for 1500 and 3000 rpm, makeing the alternator equal efficient, and using the same panel....

 

there is dynamo L and R wire

 

Jan

Edited October 27, 2013 by Dalslandia

[Keith M]

Is the generator design to be a fixed speed or variable speed

 

If it is a fixed speed unit then the governor will need attention so that it can run as a variable speed unit

 

You may have to talk to vetus to see if this mod is possible.

 

Keith

[Biggles]

Strange, green wire look like it's exhaust temp, maybe the cooling air from the genny head.

 

BTW if the genny batt is kept powered from a dynamo or 12V alternator, probably worth checking it still works well enough at the lower RPM to keep the genny batt charged.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

It is shared with the main engine start battery, however through voltage sensing paralleling of the engine duel alternators the engine 40amp alt and the new bigboy 325amp alt it will find its way back to all the batteries on the boat, 1180amp/h house, 110amp main start, 220amp (2 x 110amp) BT batteries and 80amp toilet flush buffer.

[Biggles]

Is the generator design to be a fixed speed or variable speed

 

If it is a fixed speed unit then the governor will need attention so that it can run as a variable speed unit

 

You may have to talk to vetus to see if this mod is possible.

 

Keith

 

The original genset branded Vetus is in fact made by a Belgium co, BW Generators. It is a fixed speed of 3000rpm to get the original 2 pole 230v alt to give 50Htz. (3000rpm / 60 seconds in a minute = 50Htz) [60x50=3000].

 

With DC there is no Htz to worry about it doesn't alternate (route of alternator and alternating and alternating current AC) so a DC genset although is infact in my case an alternator as in most 12v car, boat systems, the AC is converted to DC something the batteries and DC systems can use by a bridge rectifier. Alternators largely replaced Dynamoe's on cars on the 70's Dynamoes produced straight DC but at much lower amps. This was fine when vehicle electrics were very light duty. I remember converting my Escort Mk1 Van to an alternator with external regulator to power extra lighting because I did a lot of night driving at the time and the dynamo could not keep up and I would often break down because I simply run out of power to supply the ignition system, especially in winter with heater motors and wipers.

 

I digress.

 

I am planning on introducing an electronic throttle control if the need arises. The alternator I have will produce power down to very slow RPM. As the battery requirement drops so will the need to waste fuel spinning the alt faster than it needs to.

 

The future development will be to bring all systems together to set the speed to the demand automatically. i.e. high demand higher speed low demand lower speed .

 

Work in progress.

[Biggles]

If it was shoting the engine down with a input, and not without the input, it would help to disconect it, can you see any alternative bridge over, or what it is called in english, or look at the 1500 and 3000 rpm panels for differences.

 

it might have different pulleys on the alternator for 1500 and 3000 rpm, makeing the alternator equal efficient, and using the same panel....

 

there is dynamo L and R wire

 

Jan

That is possible Jan.

 

Indeed the 1500rpm would probably need a bigger engine or smaller alt pulley to initiate a charge. It would make sense to my mechanical (not electronics mind) to solve the problem this way.

 

Once I disconnected the green / yellow wire from the alternator end I was able to slow the engine to 1150 RPM with a load on the alt before it became too lumpy to be comfortable.

 

 

Even at 1150 (3) rpm the battery was being charged at the regulator set set point of 14.8v although not having a clamp amp meter I have no idea how many amps were being called for from the battery.

 

 

All looking good so far.

 

Next big test will be all connected and back on the boat in service. Charging a car start battery is no comparison to charging 1180amps of house batteries at 25% discharged.

[jacobgoona]

Hello, 

 

Maybe someone can help me in this thread... 

 

The battery charger for my boat is broken. I read online it might the bridge rectifier that went bad. I read this article  Bridge Rectifier  explaining how they work but I still don't understand whether they come in preassembled module or If I am going to need to put a bunch of diodes together myself??

 

Also maybe I should just buy a new battery charger ?  

 

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated !!

[BEngo]

You can buy a bridge rectifier as a single module.  For battery charger sizes they are often  a square 4 pin thingy.  You will need to know how many Amps you want to put through it.

  Then look at something like the Radiospares or Farnell catalogue.

Really You need to diagnose your battery charger first.  Then you will know which bit is duff.

What sort of battery charger do you have- make and model? Can you get inside it?  Do you have a multimeter which measures AC volts to least 250V  and DC volts to at least 30 V?

 

 

N

 

 

[Richard10002]

Deleted 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Richard10002

[Tony Brooks]

10 hours ago, BEngo said:

You can buy a bridge rectifier as a single module.  For battery charger sizes they are often  a square 4 pin thingy.  You will need to know how many Amps you want to put through it.

  Then look at something like the Radiospares or Farnell catalogue.

Really You need to diagnose your battery charger first.  Then you will know which bit is duff.

What sort of battery charger do you have- make and model? Can you get inside it?  Do you have a multimeter which measures AC volts to least 250V  and DC volts to at least 30 V?

 

 

N

 

 

and have you checked the fuse many chargers use to protect from reverse connection? If it is fused make sure the connetors are clean and tight.