Sinergex inverter - anyone looked inside one?

[Timleech]

I've got a Sinergex puresine II inverter which was never properly put into use until it was out of warranty.

It very quickly developed a problem with making odd beeping noises & random LED flashes even when switched 'off'. It'll work perfectly for 30 to 35 seconds, on any size of load other than a very small one, and then cut off. This is not entirely consistent, sometimes it'll work perfectly until switched off, and sometimes there's a delay with various flashes from the LEDs before it kicks into action - this delay time seems to eat into the 30 seconds mentioned earlier.

Sinergex don't answer emails, and the vendor has also tried Sinergex but got nowhere and hasn't offered any other help.

I haven't looked inside yet, but that'll be the next stage, just wondering whether anyone is familiar with these, knows how to get inside and what to expect when I find the way in - or has seen similar symptoms with another inverter?

I imagine there's probably a separate control board from the power side, which is where the trouble lies, could even be something simple like a loose wire.

 

Thanks

 

Tim

[nicknorman]

Could it just have become damp inside?, in which case opening it up and leaving it in the warm and dry might help.

[by'eck]

Following on from Nick's comments, a leaky/damp capacitor maybe.

[Timleech]

Could it just have become damp inside?, in which case opening it up and leaving it in the warm and dry might help.

It's been pretty much warm and dry all summer, & hasn't got any better

 

Tim

[JohnB]

Well for what its worth!

 

We had one of these inverters-- it died just out of warranty-- the magic smoke escaped.

I noticed the smoke as I walked through the engine room and disconnected it.

When I looked inside there were a surprising amount of burnt components and circuit track on both the control board and power section.

 

The UK agents said it was unrepairable but offered a discount on a replacement.

 

It was in such a mess I didn't want to waste time with a forensic examination of its failure and could not be sure there may not be a design fault so we installed a different make of inverter.

From a professional position It rather seems to be the trend for a lot of consumer electronics not to be serviceable; the real issue with this is it effectively stops product improvement because there is so little service feedback

 

John

[Timleech]

Well for what its worth!

 

We had one of these inverters-- it died just out of warranty-- the magic smoke escaped.

I noticed the smoke as I walked through the engine room and disconnected it.

When I looked inside there were a surprising amount of burnt components and circuit track on both the control board and power section.

 

The UK agents said it was unrepairable but offered a discount on a replacement.

 

It was in such a mess I didn't want to waste time with a forensic examination of its failure and could not be sure there may not be a design fault so we installed a different make of inverter.

From a professional position It rather seems to be the trend for a lot of consumer electronics not to be serviceable; the real issue with this is it effectively stops product improvement because there is so little service feedback

 

John

 

May I ask which were the UK agents?

The people I bought mine from evidently aren't interested/don't have any facilities for repair, if they have one fail under warranty (24 months) they just send it back to the makers for a swap. I suppose the makers could learn quite a lot from warranty failures, if they want to.

It's an expensive bit of kit to have had almost no use from. I did wonder whether I would have any leverage under the Sale of Goods act, seems doubtful after 2 1/2 years though, not easy to prove that it's never been used, apart from there being no dust around the fans.

I'll save it up for dissection on the kitchen table when the weather is too cold to work outside.

 

Tim

[twelveeyedfish]

Where are you based, Tim? In the north?

 

I am in electronics by trade and would be interested in taking a look.

 

It's not so much that we design things not p be repairable but the requirements for CE marking mean that we have to use high levels of integration and stupidly small components when designing to achieve emissions regulations and then end up having to use fans to get good heat dissipation which are the biggest failure point on most things I have designed.

 

I once designed a network switch and it failed emc testing. I changed the 0603 decoupling caps to 0402 and moved them (well, more so that I could move them) a fraction of a millimetre closer to the pins and it passed. Totally impossible to work by hand as a result however :-/

[smileypete]

There's a company in Tamworth that does inverter repairs, worth giving them a call?

 

http://www.industrialelectronicrepairs.co.uk/index_inverterrepairs.html

 

Might even be familiar with the brand or it's design, emailing a pic of it's guts could help.

 

If you can't get it repaired, try putting it on Ebay for spares, someone (like me! ) might buy it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 9, 2013 by smileypete

[Timleech]

Where are you based, Tim? In the north?

 

I am in electronics by trade and would be interested in taking a look.

 

It's not so much that we design things not p be repairable but the requirements for CE marking mean that we have to use high levels of integration and stupidly small components when designing to achieve emissions regulations and then end up having to use fans to get good heat dissipation which are the biggest failure point on most things I have designed.

 

I once designed a network switch and it failed emc testing. I changed the 0603 decoupling caps to 0402 and moved them (well, more so that I could move them) a fraction of a millimetre closer to the pins and it passed. Totally impossible to work by hand as a result however :-/

 

 

I'll have a look inside sometime soon, in case it's something really obvious, but my electronics knowledge is quite limited (mostly learned when thermionic valves ruled and transistors were fragile new-fangled things).

 

I'm in N Cheshire.

 

There's a company in Tamworth that does inverter repairs, worth giving them a call?

 

http://www.industrialelectronicrepairs.co.uk/index_inverterrepairs.html

 

Might even be familiar with the brand or it's design, emailing a pic of it's guts could help.

 

If you can't get it repaired, try putting it on Ebay for spares, someone (like me! ) might buy it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

I'm aware of them. It ought to be worth repairing, one way or another, as the problem is almost certainly confined to the low-current control side and the power side is almost unused.

 

Thanks

 

Tim

[EmmaB]

UK distributor Merlin Equipment on 01202 697 979.

Adam Heindorff

Sinergex Technologies

801.368.0034

Adam Heindorff <sinergex@comcast.net>

Edited October 9, 2013 by EmmaB

[Timleech]

 

UK distributor Merlin Equipment on 01202 697 979.

Adam Heindorff

Sinergex Technologies

801.368.0034

Adam Heindorff <sinergex@comcast.net>

 

 

Thanks for that.

I bought it from Merlin, they say have contacted Sinergex about it but had no reply, rather surprising as Merlin are agents, I've had no reply to emails sent via the Sinergex website, despite their claim on that site that:- "If a fault does occur, we are committed to quick and seamless action to ensure your product is delivering the power you need as fast as possible." - though admittedly that is under the 'warranty' heading.

 

I'll try that email address.

 

Tim

[Timleech]

Brief update, I've had a look inside in the hope that it might be something really simple like a loose wire, or obvious signs of damp. In fact it still looks brand new internally (as it should), nothing evidently amiss. Slightly surprised to find that it's two separate inverters with the outputs in parallel, one of them has an extra chip on the control board which connects to the control panel.

 

Tim

[Grace and Favour]

 

UK distributor Merlin Equipment on 01202 697 979.

Adam Heindorff

Sinergex Technologies

801.368.0034

Adam Heindorff <sinergex@comcast.net>

 

That's Chris Gibson's employer isn't it??

[Timleech]

That's Chris Gibson's employer isn't it??

 

Indeed it is. I did try sending him a pm in case he could offer any suggestions, it didn't bounce back but I got no reply.

On the Smartgauge site he sings the praises of the Sinergex inverters and how well they are built.

 

 

Tim

[smileypete]

Brief update, I've had a look inside in the hope that it might be something really simple like a loose wire, or obvious signs of damp. In fact it still looks brand new internally (as it should), nothing evidently amiss. Slightly surprised to find that it's two separate inverters with the outputs in parallel, one of them has an extra chip on the control board which connects to the control panel.

 

Tim

 

What did the Tamworth company say about it? If you email a decent pic of the insides they might recognise it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited October 19, 2013 by smileypete

[Timleech]

 

What did the Tamworth company say about it? If you email a decent pic of the insides they might recognise it.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

I haven't tried them yet. I've had a response from Adam Heindorff at Sinergex, saying that I should pursue it with Merlin as they will be equipped to sort it out, and also hinting as to why Merlin might have been less than proactive about it

 

Tim

[OldGoat]

 

I haven't tried them yet. I've had a response from Adam Heindorff at Sinergex, saying that I should pursue it with Merlin as they will be equipped to sort it out, and also hinting as to why Merlin might have been less than proactive about it

 

Tim

 

Typical sales person - get someone else to sort the mess...

I bought several (well one that was exchanged several times) from Merlin and everyone was dud. Either ran for a few minutes with a low load , or went Pop immediately.

To be fair Merlin were very apologetic and gave me my money back. In conversation it appears that they had a pile of these collected over the years and they thought (!) they were good.

I suspect the real reason was that they were returns / trade ups and Merlin couldn't get them fixed.

Perhaps the Sinergex units are not as good as the sales puff would indicate!

[peterboat]

My inverter from MR controls had a problem last week and i went to see them with it. They repaired it within 2 days and would have returned it to me if i wanted, the fault was a 2mm x 2mm capacitor the 2 days also included it being on load for 12 hours! The upshot is I cant recommend them highly enough whereas my previous 2 inverters from vetus which both failed very quickly and both burst into flames were replaced with much screaming and shouting and a a long period of time!! Now which company am I going to tell everyone about in glowing terms and which am I going to tell everybody is crap? Shame companies will never learn will they?

 

Peter

[Rufford]

I have a Singergex III from Merlin, been running fine for the last two years with no problems. And most inverters tend to be smaller inverters that are paralleled up inside.