Thermostatic Shower Mixer

[blackrose]

My thermostatic shower mixer (single tap) has been dripping almost since I bought it about 8 years ago. I can stop the dripping if I really clamp it up tight but it's not ideal.

 

About 5 years ago I bought a service kit, took it apart, lubricated all the new o-rings with silicone grease and put it back together. No change - it still dripped.

 

I think I've lived with this dripping mixer for long enough now. Is there anything I can do about it, or should I just chuck it away and replace it with a new one?

[nicknorman]

These things tend to be made of plastic internally, with nylon-type discs for valves. Probably there is an imperfection in one of the discs that is allowing water through. You should be able to replace the internal cartridge, which may (or may not!) be cheaper than replacing the whole unit. I doubt you will be able to fix the existing one easily (as you have already tried).

[ChimneyChain]

£38 on eBay. We're just about to order one ourselves.

 

Daren

[Hawkmoth]

Not worth the hassle. Chuck it away and get another.

Bob

[blackrose]

Thanks.

 

The trouble with fitting a new mixer is that it's going to be quite difficult to find one with the same dimensions (I think it's 137mm pipe centres). It's an exposed valve and really don't want to have to start replumbing.

Edited August 24, 2013 by blackrose

[smileypete]

Is it a bar mixer, and is it leaking from the shower outlet? Difficult to say without a look at the internals.

 

Pity you're not down the road near Twickenham anymore, I'd have taken it off your hands for a few quid beer money.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[blackrose]

£38 on eBay. We're just about to order one ourselves.

 

Daren

 

You mean just for the internal cartridge?

 

The replacement valves are between 100 - 170 quid on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultra-Edwardian-Traditional-Exposed-Thermostatic-Shower-Mixer-Valve-130mm-/321162260640?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Bathroom_Shower_Units_PP&hash=item4ac6c330a0

Is it a bar mixer, and is it leaking from the shower outlet? Difficult to say without a look at the internals.

 

Pity you're not down the road near Twickenham anymore, I'd have taken it off your hands for a few quid beer money.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

No, it's a traditional exposed type.

 

I really can't get my head around why these things are so expensive!

Edited August 24, 2013 by blackrose

[ChimneyChain]

Sorry mike not as plush as yours, we only live on a humble little narrowboat in Uxbridge. What do you think though?

 

Darren

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150842769850?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D150842769850%26_rdc%3D1

[blackrose]

I wouldn't mind one of those Darren, but even if the pipe centres were the same there would be no way of mounting it as my pipes come down vertically from above and the back of the valve is mounted through the wall.

 

Your boat can't be that humble if you've got hidden plumbing inside a stud wall. Mine is a DIY botch!

 

 

It needs a bit of a clean...

Edited August 24, 2013 by blackrose

[blackrose]

This one from Toolstation might work. It looks like the pipe centres are adjustable.

 

But why on earth is it 160 quid?

 

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Taps+Showers/Shower+Valves/Exposed+Concealed+Dual+Control+Thermo+Shower/d240/sd3000/p51699

 

 

What is a non-concussive shower valve?

 

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Taps%20&%20Showers/Commercial%20Taps%20&%20Showers/Non%20Concussive%20Exposed%20Shower%20Valve/d240/sd3300/p90927

Edited August 24, 2013 by blackrose

[smileypete]

 

You mean just for the internal cartridge?

 

The replacement valves are between 100 - 170 quid on ebay

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultra-Edwardian-Traditional-Exposed-Thermostatic-Shower-Mixer-Valve-130mm-/321162260640?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Bathroom_Shower_Units_PP&hash=item4ac6c330a0

 

No, it's a traditional exposed type.

 

I really can't get my head around why these things are so expensive!

 

That's posh!

 

Try phoning 'em up if it's a good make, they should have a good tech support line with experience to deal with any problems.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[nicknorman]

There will be a plastic cartridge inside all that lot, bound to be less than £100. You just need to take it out to check the part number as there are a number of different types. Non-concussive perhaps means it doesn't shut off suddenly causing water hammer?

Edited August 24, 2013 by nicknorman

[blackrose]

I've found a place that does replacement parts for it. It's about 74 quid plus postage, but I don't know if it's the cartridge and I really want to pay that sort of money and it still doesn't work properly. The manual I have has a fault diagnosis chart but not shutting off properly doesn't indicate a faulty cartridge. It says debris needs cleaning out, but I've already done that.

 

These thermostatic mixing valves seem unnecessarily complicated and prone to faults. There must be 100 parts in the exploded diagram! I just need a shower tap that doesn't leak - it really shouldn't be this difficult! What's the difference in operation between a thermostatic valve and a manual one like this? I already have a TMV to limit the temperature on my hot water system.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Probe-Manual-Shower-Mixer-/321129457073?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Bathroom_Shower_Units_PP&hash=item4ac4cea5b1

 

I still don't understand what a non-concussive valve is? I could plumb something like this in with a couple of 15mm chrome compression elbows.

 

http://www.bestbathrooms.com/Exposed-Non-Concussive-Shower-Valve/pr56673.html?gclid=CIv1kc2Nl7kCFY7LtAod0jwAjA

Edited August 24, 2013 by blackrose

[nicknorman]

That one looks like one of those taps that you press in, then it shuts off automatically after a while, like you find in public toilets. "A timed flow of water" in the description. Also 1 inlet and 1 outlet so the hot/cold would have to be mixed elsewhere.

[blackrose]

That one looks like one of those taps that you press in, then it shuts off automatically after a while, like you find in public toilets. "A timed flow of water" in the description. Also 1 inlet and 1 outlet so the hot/cold would have to be mixed elsewhere.

 

Ah, that's no good then. Thanks

 

Sods law init. Industry standard seems to be 150mm pipe centres and my current mixer is 140mm!

 

Looks like I'll have to change the pipes too.

Edited August 24, 2013 by blackrose

[nicknorman]

Well there are quite a few adjustable ones around (someone linked one earlier) so you can find one that does 140mm, on the other hand to replace one of your pipes going laterally at the top shouldn't be hard, they are all compression fittings by the looks of it.

 

If you are going to the trouble of fixing a drip, I would stick with a thermostatic mixer otherwise you may get unwanted temperature changes as the water pressure fluctuates between pump cut out and cut in.

[blackrose]

None of the other taps on my boat fluctuate in temperature and they don't have their own thermostat. I can't see why a shower would be any diffferent?

 

I could get this one. It's only 234 quid! WTF!

 

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/sagittarius-ergo-exposed-thermostatic-shower-valve-with-adjustable-centres-130---160mm-el-191-c/

Edited August 25, 2013 by blackrose

[smileypete]

I wouldn't mind one of those Darren, but even if the pipe centres were the same there would be no way of mounting it as my pipes come down vertically from above and the back of the valve is mounted through the wall.

 

Your boat can't be that humble if you've got hidden plumbing inside a stud wall. Mine is a DIY botch!

 

 

It needs a bit of a clean...

 

If it's one of those valves that has combined hot cold/on off then it could well be a little complicated and troublesome, bar mixers are dead simple by comparison.

 

Maybe put a 1/2" butterfly ball valve or chromed tap on the outlet as a workaround if you really want to keep the valve, but do phone the manufacturer and get their advice on the problem.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[blackrose]

I found a new thermostatic shower valve with adjustable centres for about 125 quid but before ordering it I thought I'd follow Bizzard's philosophy and have one more attempt at fixing the existing valve, so I took it apart and chucked the bits in a jug full of vinegar to descale them. Unfortunately I must have reassembed it incorrectly. The exploded diagram wasn't detailed enough to be of any use and as I screwed it back together I snapped a few fins off one of the plastic parts.

 

So, now it doesn't work and just gives cold showers. I ordered the new valve online this morning, but in the meantime I've had to pull the guts of the valve out again and put a funnel under it so I can have a shower before work until the new valve arrives. I'll just use the hot & cold isolators to switch it on and off. Where there's a will there's a way!

 

Edited September 8, 2013 by blackrose

[mrsmelly]

Hi

 

We never have a thermostat control type. We have a simple single lever shower mixer tap turn it left it gets hotter right it gets colder, never fluctuates ever, so perfect temp and nowt to go wrong. If we switch to using the morso then leave shower tap on and set temp on morso, again no fluctuating ever and no problems ever. Thermostatic control is of no use. About fifty quid if I recall from wickes was the last one.

 

Tim

[blackrose]

Hi

 

We never have a thermostat control type. We have a simple single lever shower mixer tap turn it left it gets hotter right it gets colder, never fluctuates ever, so perfect temp and nowt to go wrong. If we switch to using the morso then leave shower tap on and set temp on morso, again no fluctuating ever and no problems ever. Thermostatic control is of no use. About fifty quid if I recall from wickes was the last one.

 

Tim

 

I think I'd rather have a manual valve but can't find one with adjustable pipe centres and I can't be bothered replumbing.

[Richard10002]

Hi

 

We never have a thermostat control type. We have a simple single lever shower mixer tap turn it left it gets hotter right it gets colder, never fluctuates ever, so perfect temp and nowt to go wrong. If we switch to using the morso then leave shower tap on and set temp on morso, again no fluctuating ever and no problems ever. Thermostatic control is of no use. About fifty quid if I recall from wickes was the last one.

 

Tim

You are lucky! We have a hot and cold tap, the hot fed from a Rinnai. If we set the temp, it fluctuates - too hot, or freezing. I can just about manage a shower, but tend to wait till I get home and have a bath. Planning to fit a thermostatic bar control, but will need a bit of plumbing expertise to convert.

[George94]

Thermostatic valves are unnecessary if your incoming cold and hot water temperatures are always constant. If they are not, then leaving the lever in one position won't work.

 

I agree TSVs are a hassle, and over-priced, but there is another factor in their favour. They are able to adjust the temperature much more quickly than a human being can, and they do so nearer to the source. They therefore waste little or no water (once the hot water reaches them), unlike a person who fiddles with the taps, waits while the water reaches him, then fiddles again.

 

So they save water, energy, and time. Not bad.

[Old Son]

A non-concussive valve is one which closes slowly on the seat as opposed to immediate which could cause water hammer - as far as I know

[blackrose]

Thermostatic valves are unnecessary if your incoming cold and hot water temperatures are always constant. If they are not, then leaving the lever in one position won't work.

 

I agree TSVs are a hassle, and over-priced, but there is another factor in their favour. They are able to adjust the temperature much more quickly than a human being can, and they do so nearer to the source. They therefore waste little or no water (once the hot water reaches them), unlike a person who fiddles with the taps, waits while the water reaches him, then fiddles again.

 

So they save water, energy, and time. Not bad.

 

I had a shower through the funnel this morning and there was no temperature fluctuation so I guess I don't really need a shower TMV.

Edited September 9, 2013 by blackrose