Advice on SmartGauge/SmartBank

[Philippe]

Only had the boat for a couple of month's now and still struggling to get my head around all of the different elements, particularly electrics.

 

I thinking of getting a SmartGauge to monitor my batteries as I plan to take a year out and go CCing in the Spring, so managing my battery usage will be very important. I'm also currently on towpath winter moorings on the Lee with no shore power. I am unsure though whether I would benefit sufficiently from getting a SmartBank as well.

 

I have 2x70amp alternators on Emanon for the starter battery and domestic bank which consists of 3x135A/hr and one 110A/hr batteries. These are almost certainly very "tired" and will need replacing before I venture forth, but I'm still getting my head around how things work, what my power requirements are and getting the system working properly so I'm postponing the replacements until I'm more certain about the condition of the batteries.

 

There is also a 3.5kW Travel Power generator though this has just failed and is in the process of being repaired. A Victron Phoenix MultiPlus 12/2500/120 was being used exclusively to charge the domestic bank but recently a direct connection from the domestic alternator was put in as well.

 

So the SmartGauge will show me how the batteries are performing and allow me to get a better grip on charging. Would the addition of a SmartBank be worth the investment by improving the charging of the domestic bank?

 

I am also considering getting some solar panels to help top up the batteries. Would this effect my decision in any way?

[Paul C]

Can't see much point in getting a smartbank if you have 2 alternators. Also, doesn't that battery charger have 2 or more outputs? Most of the better ones do these days.

 

Smartbank would be useful:

 

1) If you had solar/wind power and some way of heating water, so that you could avoid running the engine for weeks

 

2) You only had one alternator

 

3) You had a battery charger with only one output

Edited December 14, 2012 by Paul C

[Gibbo]

With your installation, it mainly depends on how you use your system.

 

If you deeply discharge your batteries, then adding a SmartBank will reduce your recharge times. By how much, depends upon how deeply you discharge them (the deeper you discharge, the more difference it will make) and how knackered your batteries are (the more knackered they are, the less difference it will make).

 

It does give you some additional minor benefits such as :-

 

If an alternator packs up, you still get charge (admittedly less - but some is better than none) into both batteries so it doesn't cause an immediate panic.

 

If your engine battery is flat, you can start the engine from the domestic batteries.

 

How much of an advanatge these are is entirely down to you. For me the first one is a big plus, the second wouldn't sway me at all as I can sort that out with a jump lead in 30 seconds.

[Alanji]

On the subject of jump leads are normal car ones OK or do I need something bigger? presumably you just connect positive to positive, if required.

[Philippe]

Thanks for the advice.

 

At the moment I appear to be deeply discharging the batteries quite often. Not sure if this is because the charging setup wasn't working optimally to begin with, the batteries are so knackered that they are not charging up enough, my power consumption is too much or all of these. Without any access to shore power I guess I will be using battery power a lot when not moving (don't really want to run the engine for hours on end every day when moored up if I can help it). However, if I do go the solar panel route then these will hopefully keep a useful charge in the batteries without running the engine, especially in the summer.

 

Backup for the alternator looks like a good plus point. However, when I get the generator fixed I would still have 230V supply available if I did get a failure on one of the alternators which would provide charge to the batteries through the Victron in the meantime.

 

I think I'll go for a standalone SmartGauge to provide me with vital information on the state of charge of the batteries (and almost certainly a new set of domestic batteries fairly soon).

[Grace and Favour]

Thanks for the advice.

 

At the moment I appear to be deeply discharging the batteries quite often. Not sure if this is because the charging setup wasn't working optimally to begin with, the batteries are so knackered that they are not charging up enough, my power consumption is too much or all of these. Without any access to shore power I guess I will be using battery power a lot when not moving (don't really want to run the engine for hours on end every day when moored up if I can help it). However, if I do go the solar panel route then these will hopefully keep a useful charge in the batteries without running the engine, especially in the summer.

 

Backup for the alternator looks like a good plus point. However, when I get the generator fixed I would still have 230V supply available if I did get a failure on one of the alternators which would provide charge to the batteries through the Victron in the meantime.

 

I think I'll go for a standalone SmartGauge to provide me with vital information on the state of charge of the batteries (and almost certainly a new set of domestic batteries fairly soon).

 

Hi Philippe,

 

I'm most definitely not an electrician - - so my next comment may be incorrect.........

 

But I don't think you can charge your batteries from the Travelpower, through the Victron unless you have some unusual wiring configurations

AFAIK, the Travelpower will be wired purely to provide 240v supply to your on-board equipment.

 

As a rough guide (very rough) if you are taking your batteries down to 50% state of charge every day - - I'd charge them (as a minimum) by running the engine for at least 3 hours every day, and the with an 8 or 9 hour charge every weekend

[simon&jan]

On the subject of jump leads are normal car ones OK or do I need something bigger? presumably you just connect positive to positive, if required.

 

 

Ideally something bigger for a diesel.engine , better ones have the cable split to.both parts of the crocodile clip , instead of just the spring !! The longer you go the bigger you need , cheap ones smoke when used

[Philippe]

One other thing - where do people normally fit the SmartGauge itself? It strikes me that it would be most useful inside the cabin so that it can be seen while you're actually using battery power rather than elsewhere. Is thi the sensible thing to do?

 

Hi Philippe,

 

I'm most definitely not an electrician - - so my next comment may be incorrect.........

 

But I don't think you can charge your batteries from the Travelpower, through the Victron unless you have some unusual wiring configurations

AFAIK, the Travelpower will be wired purely to provide 240v supply to your on-board equipment.

 

As a rough guide (very rough) if you are taking your batteries down to 50% state of charge every day - - I'd charge them (as a minimum) by running the engine for at least 3 hours every day, and the with an 8 or 9 hour charge every weekend

 

When the Travel Power was working, the mains light would illuminate on the Victron along with one of the battery charging lights so I assume that it was charging the batteries. Without the generator I don't get any charging lights illuminated on the Victron, only the inverter light and then low battery warning after some time if the engine isn't running.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Philippe

[nicknorman]

Unless the equipment has been installed very badly, you will be able to use the Travelpower to charge the batteries via the victron. With this in mind I think that a smartbank is superfluous since you will have 70A alternator + 120A charger = 190A which is more than enough for your battery size. Plus the victron can keep the domestics charged if the domestic alternator fails, and (probably) has an output for the starter battery which would do the same if the starter alternator fails, giving you redundancy of equipment which is very useful if you are CCing. If you use the Travelpower / Victron routinely to assist the domestic alternator, you will reduce or eliminiate the time it spends getting hot at maximum output, so probably prolonging its life.

 

I don't think there is any specified limit to cable length between batteries and smartgauge. Gibbo will correct me if I am wrong but possibly if the cable run was very long, that might increase the amount of noise on the voltage arriving at the SG. I don't think this would have any effect on the State of Charge calculation, but it might make the voltage readout a bit more jittery. For a long run it might be worth using a twisted pair, ie putting the +ve and -ve wires in an electric drill and twisting them up together to make like a rope. This substantially cuts down on induced interference.

 

You want it in the living area to see how its doing. You want it in the engine /driving area to know the batts are charging and when to shut the engine off, so I am not sure there is a "right answer" but we have ours in the engine room. With experience of your setup, you will need to look at the gauge less, and IMHO it is not therefore necessary to have it in the living area.

Edited December 14, 2012 by nicknorman

[ditchcrawler]

One other thing - where do people normally fit the SmartGauge itself? It strikes me that it would be most useful inside the cabin so that it can be seen while you're actually using battery power rather than elsewhere. Is thi the sensible thing to do?

 

 

 

When the Travel Power was working, the mains light would illuminate on the Victron along with one of the battery charging lights so I assume that it was charging the batteries. Without the generator I don't get any charging lights illuminated on the Victron, only the inverter light and then low battery warning after some time if the engine isn't running.

If the inverter low volts warning is coming up you are over discharging your batteries by quite a bit.

[Philippe]

If the inverter low volts warning is coming up you are over discharging your batteries by quite a bit.

 

That has mostly only occurred when the Travel Power failed while I was using a lot of 230V power, which is what I would expect in the circumstances. The only other time was when I accidently left the electric heater on with the engine off before I fixed the stove.

 

Oh, also when I've been away from the boat for too long with the 240V fridge left on. Yet another reason for looking at getting solar panels.

 

Unless the equipment has been installed very badly, you will be able to use the Travelpower to charge the batteries via the victron. With this in mind I think that a smartbank is superfluous since you will have 70A alternator + 120A charger = 190A which is more than enough for your battery size. Plus the victron can keep the domestics charged if the domestic alternator fails, and (probably) has an output for the starter battery which would do the same if the starter alternator fails, giving you redundancy of equipment which is very useful if you are CCing. If you use the Travelpower / Victron routinely to assist the domestic alternator, you will reduce or eliminiate the time it spends getting hot at maximum output, so probably prolonging its life.

 

I don't think there is any specified limit to cable length between batteries and smartgauge. Gibbo will correct me if I am wrong but possibly if the cable run was very long, that might increase the amount of noise on the voltage arriving at the SG. I don't think this would have any effect on the State of Charge calculation, but it might make the voltage readout a bit more jittery. For a long run it might be worth using a twisted pair, ie putting the +ve and -ve wires in an electric drill and twisting them up together to make like a rope. This substantially cuts down on induced interference.

 

You want it in the living area to see how its doing. You want it in the engine /driving area to know the batts are charging and when to shut the engine off, so I am not sure there is a "right answer" but we have ours in the engine room. With experience of your setup, you will need to look at the gauge less, and IMHO it is not therefore necessary to have it in the living area.

 

The Travel Power was indeed charging the batteries when it was working as far as I could tell.

 

Inside the boat under the Victron control panel was where I was thinking of putting it. This is in the bedroom beside the rear wardrobe next to the stern door. This would allow me to check the charging from inside and then pop out to shut down the engine when complete.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Philippe

[nb Innisfree]

To do a 8+hr weekly charge as mentioned earlier, and you are moored up and don't want to run main engine a digital genny will do this on tickover on an absorption charge of your choice via your Victron. Much quieter than main engine and quite cheap to buy if a Kipor genny is used.

[jelunga]

That has mostly only occurred when the Travel Power failed while I was using a lot of 230V power, which is what I would expect in the circumstances. The only other time was when I accidently left the electric heater on with the engine off before I fixed the stove.

 

Oh, also when I've been away from the boat for too long with the 240V fridge left on. Yet another reason for looking at getting solar panels.

 

 

 

The Travel Power was indeed charging the batteries when it was working as far as I could tell.

 

Inside the boat under the Victron control panel was where I was thinking of putting it. This is in the bedroom beside the rear wardrobe next to the stern door. This would allow me to check the charging from inside and then pop out to shut down the engine when complete.

It is highly likely then your batteries are pooped if dischsrged so much so often.

The Vjctron should have a secondary 12v output to keep your starter battery charged. Well worth using if you go on shorepower for a while without running the engine.

[Philippe]

It is highly likely then your batteries are pooped if dischsrged so much so often.

The Vjctron should have a secondary 12v output to keep your starter battery charged. Well worth using if you go on shorepower for a while without running the engine.

 

I think the Victron is already connected through the secondary output to the starter battery and I think the batteries were already pooped when I got the boat a couple of months ago. Will almost certainly invest in a full set of replacements in the new year.

[Gibbo]

Use 1mm sq cable and SmartGauge is fine up to 10 metres distance. It will go further with thicker wire but it's a bit of a pig to get it into the connectors.

[routrax]

Use 1mm sq cable and SmartGauge is fine up to 10 metres distance. It will go further with thicker wire but it's a bit of a pig to get it into the connectors.

 

I found that, you would think whoever designed it would have thought of that

[Gibbo]

I found that, you would think whoever designed it would have thought of that

 

 

Apparently he did. Apparently it's on the website. Somehwere. Apparently. Or perhaps in the manual. Apparently he can't remember.