Paying to use the canal?

[Graham Davis]

7 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

I know I don't need a licence, in the marina.
WRONG. YOU DO IF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE MARINA SAY YOU DO. GET OVER IT!
I have to buy one, but I don't need one.
YES YOU DO, AS STATED ABOVE. GET OVER IT!
If the rules force me to buy one, when I don't need one, the rule is a bad one.
IN YOUR MIND ONLY.
The rule needs changing.
IN YOUR OPINION.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Graham Davis

[furnessvale]

7 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

I know I don't need a licence, in the marina. I have to buy one, but I don't need one. If the rules force me to buy one, when I don't need one, the rule is a bad one. The rule needs changing.

The world is full of bad rules, ie rules that affect ME.

For example, in the UK, if you own a diesel engined motor vehicle and use it off road, even for extended periods, you can only use excise duty paid(white) diesel in it, unless you can demonstrate that it will NEVER be used on a road.

IMO that is a very similar analogy to an unlicenced boat in a connected marina, which could sneak out for a cruise when no-one was looking.

George

[Higgs]

3 hours ago, X Alan W said:

Does the marina you moor in rely on C&RT for it 's water supply to float your boat? if yes you are doing no different to folk with end of garden moorings & can you by the simple action of untiring your mooring lines & starting your motor cruise out on to the system without checks? I yes why do you not require  a licence if you stay tied in the marina that's your choice if you don't wish to move have your boat put on hard standing & forgo the licence requirements

 

No, it isn't the same as end of garden moorings. I pay full whack mooring fees, and CRT receive a connection fee from the marina, which invariably is an overhead that effects mooring fees.

My stock line, if anyone thinks I should choose differently - I could choose not to have a boat, it would not change anything about the operation of the CRT/marinas set up. I would still make it something to be challenged.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Higgs

[Higgs]

39 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

I know I don't need a licence, in the marina.
WRONG. YOU DO IF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE MARINA SAY YOU DO. GET OVER IT!
I have to buy one, but I don't need one.
YES YOU DO, AS STATED ABOVE. GET OVER IT!
If the rules force me to buy one, when I don't need one, the rule is a bad one.
IN YOUR MIND ONLY.
The rule needs changing.
IN YOUR OPINION.

 

 

In statutory terms, I do not need a licence in the marina.  The licence is linked to a waterway, which I am not on in the marina.

No, I don't need one -  as stated above. You get over it.

Not only in my mind, but it's an abuse of power. Full stop.

It needs removing from the NAA. Full stop.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Higgs

[Graham Davis]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

In statutory terms, I do not need a licence in the marina.  The licence is linked to a waterway, which I am not on in the marina.

No, I don't need one -  as stated above.

Not only in my mind, but it's an abuse of power. Full stop.

It needs removing from the NAA. Full stop.

 

Tough, sunshine.
That's the way it is and if you don't like it sell your boat and get off the canals.

And if your illogical thoughts were followed to "your" end all it would do would be to increase licencing charges for ALL other boaters. Is that what you want or are you just being a selfish troll?

[Higgs]

15 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Tough, sunshine.
That's the way it is and if you don't like it sell your boat and get off the canals.

And if your illogical thoughts were followed to "your" end all it would do would be to increase licencing charges for ALL other boaters. Is that what you want or are you just being a selfish troll?

 

I just don't like abuses of power. You obviously would put up with it or even condone it.

I would also disagree with your concerns that license fees would increase. I would also point out that it would offer choice to boaters - whether they choose to marina-moor a boat without a licence or use it on the canal with a licence. Boaters have little choice in the world of the canal. It's about time they had a voice. Here's a way to get it.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Higgs

[WotEver]

23 minutes ago, Higgs said:

The licence is linked to a waterway, which I am not on in the marina.

So how did the Water in the marina get there? Who’s water is it?

[furnessvale]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

So how did the Water in the marina get there? Who’s water is it?

Perhaps marinas that do not comply with CRT requirements should be made to lock down into CRT waters, as new build canals were once forced to do into older canals that were already established.

George

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Perhaps marinas that do not comply with CRT requirements should be made to lock down into CRT waters, as new build canals were once forced to do into older canals that were already established.

George

That sounds fair. 

[Higgs]

17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

So how did the Water in the marina get there? Who’s water is it?

 

From the sky, the way most water arrives. No body owns water.

 

[Naughty Cal]

31 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I just don't like abuses of power. You obviously would put up with it or even condone it.

I would also disagree with your concerns that license fees would increase. I would also point out that it would offer choice to boaters - whether they choose to marina-moor a boat without a licence or use it on the canal with a licence. Boaters have little choice in the world of the canal. It's about time they had a voice. Here's a way to get it.

You can indeed choose to moor in a marina without a licence. But to do so you would have to find one of the marinas that does not have an agreement with CRT regarding licencing of boats within that marina.

If you choose to moor in a marina where there is a requirement to hold a valid CRT licence then that is your choice, so put up and shut up.

[Higgs]

10 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

You can indeed choose to moor in a marina without a licence. But to do so you would have to find one of the marinas that does not have an agreement with CRT regarding licencing of boats within that marina.

If you choose to moor in a marina where there is a requirement to hold a valid CRT licence then that is your choice, so put up and shut up.

 

I could choose not to have a boat, it would not change anything about the operation of the CRT/marinas set up. I would still make it something to be challenged.

[furnessvale]

14 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

From the sky, the way most water arrives. No body owns water.

 

Try telling that to the water utilities.  Another of those unfair rules!

George

[Higgs]

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

IMO that is a very similar analogy to an unlicenced boat in a connected marina, which could sneak out for a cruise when no-one was looking.

George

 

It is not place or moral responsibility to be the conscience of all boaters in marinas.

 

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I could choose not to have a boat, it would not change anything about the operation of the CRT/marinas set up. I would still make it something to be challenged.

Anyone could choose not to have a boat so what?

You have chosen to have one and have also chosen to keep it in a marina where it is a requirement to hold a valid CRT licence. That is your choice. Therefore it is your choice to need a CRT licence. Get over it.

[furnessvale]

Just now, Higgs said:

 

It is not place or moral responsibility to be the conscience of all boaters in marinas.

 

Seems to work for HMG with regard to illegal use of red diesel by part time off road users.

George

[Higgs]

6 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Try telling that to the water utilities.  Another of those unfair rules!

George

 

And where's that water now. It's not like piece of furniture. Water can be managed, bottled, and have all sorts of uses that can make it marketable, but it usually ends up being recycled and landing on your head.

[furnessvale]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

And where's that water now. It's not like piece of furniture. Water can be managed, bottled, and have all sorts of uses that can make it marketable, but it usually ends up being recycled and landing on your head.

Fair enough, but I am simply pointing out other "unfair" rules that affect all of us.

George

[Higgs]

8 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Anyone could choose not to have a boat so what?

You have chosen to have one and have also chosen to keep it in a marina where it is a requirement to hold a valid CRT licence. That is your choice. Therefore it is your choice to need a CRT licence. Get over it.

 

The point is - having a boat, not having boat, it doesn't change the nature of the private property and CRT property. CRT property is the only place that statutory rules can be applied.

7 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Fair enough, but I am simply pointing out other "unfair" rules that affect all of us.

George

 

True. What about abuse of power?

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The point is - having a boat, not having boat, it doesn't change the nature of the private property and CRT property. CRT property is the only place that statutory rules can be applied.

 

True. What about abuse of power?

If the marina operator/owner has signed an agreement with CRT that requires all boats in that marina to hold a valid licence, then no it isn't.

 

[Higgs]

18 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Seems to work for HMG with regard to illegal use of red diesel by part time off road users.

George

 

If that's the law, it's the law.

The law governing the requirement to have a licence in a marina is based on business and not statutory need of a licence. 

8 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

If the marina operator/owner has signed an agreement with CRT that requires all boats in that marina to hold a valid licence, then no it isn't.

 

 

It's business. It doesn't make a licence valid (inside the marina) by statutory needs.  

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Higgs

[furnessvale]

14 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

True. What about abuse of power?

Without digging out law books, I think the need to use white diesel off road in the circumstances I described is an interpretation by HMRC rather than a statutory requirement.  I have no doubt it will have been challenged in court but found to be legal.

No doubt anyone in a marina has the ability to challenge CRT licensing requirements in court, if indeed it hasn't been done already.

George

[Naughty Cal]

13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

If that's the law, it's the law.

The law governing the requirement to have a licence in a marina is based on business and not statutory need of a licence. 

 

It's business. It doesn't make a licence valid (inside the marina) by statutory needs.  

 

If it says in your berthing agreement that you need a valid CRT licence, then you need one. What is so difficult about that, that doesn't seem to be sinking in with you?

It isn't rocket science. The marina operator signs an agreement with CRT which says that you need a licence in that marina in return for access to the canal.

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The law governing the requirement to have a licence in a marina is based on business and not statutory need of a licence. 

 

It's business. It doesn't make a licence valid (inside the marina) by statutory needs.  

 

A condition of being granted a mooring also (generally) includes the fact that the boat is 'safe' and insured and is evidenced by the production of a BSSC and an Insurance certificate.

It is just the marina / mooring owners condition, but even tho' not a legal requirement you do not appear to have any issue with those requirements.

[Higgs]

7 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

If it says in your berthing agreement that you need a valid CRT licence, then you need one. What is so difficult about that, that doesn't seem to be sinking in with you?

It isn't rocket science. The marina operator signs an agreement with CRT which says that you need a licence in that marina in return for access to the canal.

 

I have a valid licence. It's business. Moorers are punters.

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A condition of being granted a mooring also (generally) includes the fact that the boat is 'safe' and insured and is evidenced by the production of a BSSC and an Insurance certificate.

It is just the marina / mooring owners condition, but even tho' not a legal requirement you do not appear to have any issue with those requirements.

 

No, I don't have any beef about Safety and insurance. I'm not on my own property. I hasten to add, I'm not on CRT's either.