Eberspacher

[Tim]

Just a tad 'off topic', does anybody know if it's possible to run the pump within the Eberspacher without running the burner?

 

Tim.

[BlueStringPudding]

Okay...

 

Here's an update. Found the header tank, filled it with a solution of flourescent antifreeze and water and bled the radiators a treat! Yay! So thanks everyone for your advice there. I think if I invest in a pair of pointy nosed pliers I might also be able to bleed the one radiator with the funny shaped valve that currently doesn't fit the radiator key.

 

However...

 

We turned on the Eberspacher (last engineer temporarily replaced our dodgy switch as we have to wait a week till someone qualified can put the timer switch on for us... though still might have a go at that myself if I get a chance, now I've found the wiring) and the Eberspacher cut out after ten mintues and a series of loud "doof doof doof" noises (second time it's done that... hmmm...)) We waited a couple of minutes and started it up again. It ran for longer but I noticed that the header tank had drained itself a little. So I topped it up to half way.

 

Came back to check on it a bit later and it was drained again. So I topped it up to halfway again.

 

After a third time, I thought: there can only be so much water in these bl**dy radiators" so decided to check for a leak. Lifted the doors into the engine bay to find the wet bilge full of fluorescent yellow water! We turned off the Eberspacher and Kev had a good nose around only to find a disconnected pipe, dripping antifreeze and water in there. And it doesn't look like it even reaches anything to connect it to.

 

(Have I mentioned what I think of engineering company who serviced it four weeks ago...?! )

 

Anyway, Kev and I spent last night hand-pumping yellow water into buckets to try to dispose of without poisoning the wildlife!

 

So:

• Any idea what this pipe, that obviously runs from the header tank, is suppose to connect to?
  
• Any thoughts on what the noises and cutting-out means (batteries fine, and engine running at the time) - it always after almost exactly ten minutes?
  

 

Incidentally neither the radiators, not the water in the header tank got even slightly warm (and the Eberspacher ended up running for a good hour in the end). Calorifier was hot, but the engine had also been on, so could have been heated by either.

 

Thanks all.

 

Lisa

[cyclic]

[*]Any idea what this pipe, that obviously runs from the header tank, is suppose to connect to?

[*]Any thoughts on what the noises and cutting-out means (batteries fine, and engine running at the time) - it always after almost exactly ten minutes?

Incidentally neither the radiators, not the water in the header tank got even slightly warm (and the Eberspacher ended up running for a good hour in the end). Calorifier was hot, but the engine had also been on, so could have been heated by either.

 

If it is from the header tank, it should go to a T junction on the flow or return to the coil in the calorifier.

Look for a T that perhaps has a spare 'hole' to put that pipe on.

 

The cutting out is almost certainly because the Eberspacher is overheating (i.e. because of lack of water) which means that you have to keep on bleeding the Radiators and topping up header untill all the air has gone.

Also, there will likely be isolating valve that stop/allow water to flow round the radiators. If the cylinder is getting hot, the rads should too if the valves are open

When you've done that and fired it up again, ensure that the radiators are turned on as well so that the water doesn't overheat and cut out the Eberspacher.

I think you are confusing the issue by having the engine running as well. You won't know if the heater/coil/Radiators are working, or whether it's the Engine coil circuit heating the water.

 

It took me a few stressful hours to fathom out my system so I know how you feel

[bottle]

only to find a disconnected pipe, dripping antifreeze and water in there. And it doesn't look like it even reaches anything to connect it to.

 

Where does the other end connect to, it may be an overflow for the header tank that discharges into the engine bay.

 

Any thoughts on what the noises and cutting-out means (batteries fine, and engine running at the time) - it always after almost exactly ten minutes?

 

Do not know what the 'chuffing' is but the Erbaspacher may be overheating/getting to cutout temperature and cutting out, is the pump running.

[Scotty]

Here's another picture, there's a possibility this is how your system was done.

It show the T that cyclic refers to

 

If it is from the header tank, it should go to a T junction on the flow or return to the coil in the calorifier.

Look for a T that perhaps has a spare 'hole' to put that pipe on.

[NB Phoenix]

What size is the pipe?

[BlueStringPudding]

If it is from the header tank, it should go to a T junction on the flow or return to the coil in the calorifier.Look for a T that perhaps has a spare 'hole' to put that pipe on.The cutting out is almost certainly because the Eberspacher is overheating (i.e. because of lack of water) which means that you have to keep on bleeding the Radiators and topping up header untill all the air has gone. Even after all the hassle of the Eberspacher cutting out and the pipe leaking into the engine area there's no air in the radiators now. So the header tank must be properly connected to them at least.Also, there will likely be isolating valve that stop/allow water to flow round the radiators. If the cylinder is getting hot, the rads should too if the valves are open There is a little white dial thing on one of the pipes near the header tank. Have no idea what it's for so haven't turned it yet (Kev wouldn't let me as it has no obvious marking that indicates an on or an off etc) Perhaps we should twiddle that?When you've done that and fired it up again, ensure that the radiators are turned on as well so that the water doesn't overheat and cut out the Eberspacher. They were all turned on fullyI think you are confusing the issue by having the engine running as well. You won't know if the heater/coil/Radiators are working, or whether it's the Engine coil circuit heating the water. I had the engine running because previous advice suggested I should!!! Oh, well... It took me a few stressful hours to fathom out my system so I know how you feel

Where does the other end connect to, it may be an overflow for the header tank that discharges into the engine bay.Do not know what the 'chuffing' is but the Erbaspacher may be overheating/getting to cutout temperature and cutting out, is the pump running.

The main water pump (that feeds the taps and shower) was on, I wouldn't know whether the pump insde the Eberspacher was working or not, though.

What size is the pipe?

Alas, can't comment - Kev saw the pipe as he was down in the bilge. I was faffing with the header tank at the time!

Where does the other end connect to, it may be an overflow for the header tank that discharges into the engine bay.

That might be possible - yes. However I still have no heat in the radiators and the Eberspacher does keep cutting out. Maybe it's all to do with the mystery white dial...? Edited July 17, 2007 by BlueStringPudding

[5thHorseman]

I agree with Bottle sounds like it is overheating.

Have you have checked that both gate valves are open to and from the heater?

 

5th

[BlueStringPudding]

I agree with Bottle sounds like it is overheating.

Have you have checked that both gate valves are open to and from the heater?

 

5th

 

Sorry mate - I don't know what those are.

 

The Eberspacher was serviced and bled and got up and running by the engineer at Sawley. I'd be surprised if he'd not done that himself. (However he assumed there was no header tank, so who knows)

 

Please can you explain what the gate valves look like, where they're situated and how I'd know if they were fully open or not?

 

Thanks

[Scotty]

If the rads are holding water then it seems like everything is conected,

the coolant in the bilge must have come from an overflow.

 

And it does sound like overheating,

there could well be some valves between the calorifier and the radiators

 

perhaps more like this pic (i do like pictures me)

[5thHorseman]

Sorry mate - I don't know what those are.

 

The Eberspacher was serviced and bled and got up and running by the engineer at Sawley. I'd be surprised if he'd not done that himself. (However he assumed there was no header tank, so who knows)

 

Please can you explain what the gate valves look like, where they're situated and how I'd know if they were fully open or not?

 

Thanks

 

I should apologise as it was a terse and rather unhelpfull reply I made.

 

The heater unit is mounted on the side of the enhgine hole about 30 " back from the bulkhead. Two rubber pipes come out of the top left of the heater and run forward, there should be a gate valve on each of those pipes just forward of the heater so that you can isolate and remove the heater without draining down the whole system. They should both be turned as far anticlockwise as they can be.

 

5th

[chris w]

The Eberspacher was serviced and bled and got up and running by the engineer at Sawley. I'd be surprised if he'd not done that himself. (However he assumed there was no header tank, so who knows)

 

 

 

There has to be a header tank somewhere because water expands when heated and that extra volume has to go somewhere or a big bang would have resulted.

 

Chris

[BlueStringPudding]

There has to be a header tank somewhere because water expands when heated and that extra volume has to go somewhere or a big bang would have resulted.Chris

I'll give you their phone number and you can explain that to them, if you like! (Have I mentiond what I think of that engineering company... (only forty billion times!))

I should apologise as it was a terse and rather unhelpfull reply I made. Not terse at all - no need to apologiseThe heater unit is mounted on the side of the enhgine hole about 30 " back from the bulkhead. Two rubber pipes come out of the top left of the heater and run forward, there should be a gate valve on each of those pipes just forward of the heater so that you can isolate and remove the heater without draining down the whole system. They should both be turned as far anticlockwise as they can be.5th

Excellent - thanks, I'll phone Kev (who's on the boat now) and get him to locate them.

[BlueStringPudding]

Okay,

 

The Kevmeister has checked the valves and both are fully open.

 

He has now twiddled the mystery white dial (up near the header tank) fully anticlockwise, checked the header tank still has some water in it, and has turned the Eberspacher on again.

 

He'll phone me in fifteen minutes to see if it passes the ten mintue cut-out threshold this time. If it does, he'll leave it on for a bit to see if the radiators get warm.

 

Fingers crossed...

[cyclic]

Here's another picture, there's a possibility this is how your system was done.

It show the T that cyclic refers to

 

And another that I made earlier

[5thHorseman]

The main water pump (that feeds the taps and shower) was on, I wouldn't know whether the pump insde the Eberspacher was working or not, though.Alas, can't comment - Kev saw the pipe as he was down in the bilge. I was faffing with the header tank at the time! That might be possible - yes. However I still have no heat in the radiators and the Eberspacher does keep cutting out. Maybe it's all to do with the mystery white dial...?

 

The mystery white dial is the thermostat and I would recommend that you do not change it until we have eliminated all other possibilities. If you find the urge irresistable - mark it together with a datum on the bulkhead so that you can twiddle it back to the same point.

 

A further thought occured to me - Is you calorifier full i.e. not airlocked. as if there is a lot of air in there the coil might be exposed so little or no cooling of the water takes place and as it is closest to the heater the water temperature out might equal temperature in an trigger the overheating cut out.

To vent the tank you have to take out the shelf in the cupboad (not an easy job)- on top of the tank is a red nob which if you turn it goes so far and then clicks, with your water pump on - turn the nob to the point where it is just about to click this lifts the valve and allows air out of the tank. Make sure whien the tank has vented you turn it so that it clicks and this shuts the valve, otherwise you will pump water through it

 

5th

[BlueStringPudding]

Well, Eberspacher started making the loud coughing sounds again after ten mintues, but didn't cut out this time. Apparently it's whirring away now.It's been on for 15 mins - (this might be a how long is a piece of string type question) but can anyone hazzard a guess at how long it'd take for the radiators to start feeling even slightly warmer? Don't want to run the Eberspacher for yonks not knowing that there's still a valve we've missed somewhere! Meanwhile, Kev's delving around in the calorifier cupboard to look for any other valves or dials!

The mystery white dial is the thermostat and I would recommend that you do not change it until we have eliminated all other possibilities. If you find the urge irresistable - mark it together with a datum on the bulkhead so that you can twiddle it back to the same point. Uh Oh - too late! Kev hasn't blow up yet - shall I tell him to turn it back!?!?!?[/b]A further thought occured to me - Is you calorifier full i.e. not airlocked. as if there is a lot of air in there the coil might be exposed so little or no cooling of the water takes place and as it is closest to the heater the water temperature out might equal temperature in an trigger the overheating cut out. Possibly - we have had some air splurting through the taps from time to timeTo vent the tank you have to take out the shelf in the cupboad (not an easy job)- on top of the tank is a red nob which if you turn it goes so far and then clicks, with your water pump on - turn the nob to the point where it is just about to click this lifts the valve and allows air out of the tank. Make sure whien the tank has vented you turn it so that it clicks and this shuts the valve, otherwise you will pump water through it. Okay - thanks5th

turn the nob to the point where it is just about to click this lifts the valve and allows air out of the tank. Make sure whien the tank has vented you turn it so that it clicks and this shuts the valve, otherwise you will pump water through it5th

Is this safe to do when there's hot water in the tank, or should we leave it till it's cold?

[bottle]

The water leaving the Erberspacher should be hot almost instantaniously then just following the piping and you should feel 'heat' travelling.

 

I would expect the return to be warm in less than ten minutes, of course this will depend on the flow and the number of radiators (not an exact science) {someone will be able to work out the exact timing }

[5thHorseman]

The radiator behind the rear step ( if you have one there) should start to feel lukewarm within a few minutes of the heater starting.

 

 

"Uh Oh - too late! Kev hasn't blow up yet - shall I tell him to turn it back"

 

I have never had the courage to change mine but I don't think a thermostat should be set fully one way on the other so perhaps he should turn it back a bit

 

"Is this safe to do when there's hot water in the tank, or should we leave it till it's cold?"

 

Does that mean the heater is heating the water?

 

Yes you can do it when the water is hot, just be careful, it "fizzles" as the water level get close to the valve, a bit like a radiator does when you bleed that so it does give you warning.

 

5th

 

edit:- usually if you turn a thermostat anticlockwise it turns the temperature down so "the Kevmeister" may now have turned your heating off.

Edited July 17, 2007 by 5thHorseman

[BlueStringPudding]

The radiator behind the rear step ( if you have one there) should start to feel lukewarm within a few minutes of the heater starting.

"Uh Oh - too late! Kev hasn't blow up yet - shall I tell him to turn it back"

 

I have never had the courage to change mine but I don't think a thermostat should be set fully one way on the other so perhaps he should turn it back a bit

 

"Is this safe to do when there's hot water in the tank, or should we leave it till it's cold?"

 

Does that mean the heater is heating the water?

 

Yes you can do it when the water is hot, just be careful, it "fizzles" as the water level get close to the valve, a bit like a radiator does when you bleed that so it does give you warning.

 

5th

 

None of the radiators have warmed up even a bit - and it's been on for 45 mins now.

 

We panicked so he turned the mystery white plastic dial/valve thing back to where it was.

 

Kev's just told me that he had the engine on this morning so we don't know if the hot tap water is from the engine or the Eberspacher (not a very exact experiment this!?) The pipes leading out of the Eberspacher unit in the bilge area itself are hot though - suggesting, I presume that it is heating water... the hot water just doesn't seem to be reaching the radiators.

Edited July 17, 2007 by BlueStringPudding

[bottle]

You either have an airlock (but you say that you have vented the radiators) or there is a valve/tap somewhere that is turned off.

 

If the mystery white thing is a thermostat, I would expect it be only possible to turn through a maximum of half a turn.

 

If this is so setting it to the midway point would be 'ok' if there are no actual markings to set to. (gives a starting point for adjustment later if necessary)

 

Is the pump actually pumping, it may be running but the impeller may not be turning.

[BlueStringPudding]

You either have an airlock (but you say that you have vented the radiators) or there is a valve/tap somewhere that is turned off. I've just talked Kev through venting the calorifier tank and double checked the radiators are still fully bled. They are. Header tank is still half full (water in it is still cold... is this right?) He's just turned the Eberspacher on again.

 

If the mystery white thing is a thermostat, I would expect it be only possible to turn through a maximum of half a turn. Yup - sounds like it was. He's adjusted back to where it was.

 

If this is so setting it to the midway point would be 'ok' if there are no actual markings to set to. (gives a starting point for adjustment later if necessary)

 

Is the pump actually pumping, it may be running but the impeller may not be turning. Eberspacher pump, you mean? Don't know - how can we tell? The Eberspacher currently sounds like a small jet aircraft taking off, followed by a selection of clucks, doof-doofs and coughing sounds, and some whirring!

[chris w]

I had an overheating problem on my Webasto (very similar in operation to the Eberspächer). I found a ball of white plastic "spagetti" in the impeller. I reckon this happened when some drongo drilled a connection for a pipe into the header tank (white plastic) and, presumably, the swarf fell inside the header tank and was sucked into the pump. Once removed the Webasto functioned perfectly.

 

If nothing else cures your problem, it might be worth someone taking a look at the impeller as Bottle alluded.

 

Chris

[cyclic]

I had an overheating problem on my Webasto (very similar in operation to the Eberspächer). I found a ball of white plastic "spagetti" in the impeller. I reckon this happened when some drongo drilled a connection for a pipe into the header tank (white plastic) and, presumably, the swarf fell inside the header tank and was sucked into the pump. Once removed the Webasto functioned perfectly.

 

If nothing else cures your problem, it might be worth someone taking a look at the impeller as Bottle alluded.

 

Chris

 

Often a gentle Tap with a sledge hammer cures that sort of problem, but don't quote me.

 

The heat from the pipes might help to indicate if the pump is working OK.

The flow pipe to the coil should get almost too hot to touch, and the return pipe would be MUCH cooler.

If the pump wasn't functioning not only would the heater cut out from overheating, but, both flow and return pipes would likely be much the same temp

[BlueStringPudding]

Okay...

 

This time, the pipe at the bottom of the stern-most radiator got warm - but then (Eberspacher still working) went cold again!!!

 

So Kev has just re-bled that radiator and it's still (cold) water coming out of it (no air) and then (coincidentally or not?) teh Eberspacher started making those loud coughing noises again. But it didn't cut out.

 

 

Is this any more of a clue... or a bl**min' mystery!?!?!?