Eberspacher

[carlt]

It's not readily available to canal boats anywhere on the system though is it. That was the point and you have gone way off it. To bring you back on, the question specifically concerned Eberspacher's need for kerosene and why would anyone want a system that requires such a fuel when others run on engine fuel. Whatever you say, that is additional hassle for the boater, needing two tanks and having to make additional arrangements over and above merely filling up in the usual way for the engine. Nothing you say about availability or anything else changes the simple fact that if they require kerosene then that is an embuggerance for the boater which she won't have on engine diesel.

 

And taking the piss is something in which you indulge far more than me. Perhaps you don't like it if the tables are turned but if you can't take it Carl, don't dish it out.

 

regards

Steve

I don't mind it at all Steve, especially when it highlights someone's ignorance.

 

As you're an accountant I find it surprising that a little effort to save a lot of money (especially after Nov 2008) is not an attractive proposition to you.

 

If enough liveaboards ask for it then it is a relatively minor outlay for a boatyard to supply it. If enough people, even with the small tanks most leisure boats could accommodate, got together and ordered a quantity, then a franchisee would happily drive to a marina to fill them up, seems good business sense to me.

[anhar]

I don't mind it at all Steve, especially when it highlights someone's ignorance.

 

As you're an accountant I find it surprising that a little effort to save a lot of money (especially after Nov 2008) is not an attractive proposition to you.

 

If enough liveaboards ask for it then it is a relatively minor outlay for a boatyard to supply it. If enough people, even with the small tanks most leisure boats could accommodate, got together and ordered a quantity, then a franchisee would happily drive to a marina to fill them up, seems good business sense to me.

Okay Carl, I'm sure we're starting to bore people with this, but where we came in on this is that for anyone considering diesel ch they would be advised to avoid Eberspacher in favour of systems that run on red diesel. That was all I am claiming. Whatever the true availability of kerosene round the system may be, and there is no way whatever you say that it is as freely available anywhere as engine fuel, surely you would agree with my comments on Eberspachers. I myself avoided that make in my new boat for that reason. Your whole argument is around the fuel, not on the heating system which is what this was supposed to be about.

 

Why make life more difficult with a system known to give trouble on red diesel when there are alternative less troublesome makes around, there are enough hassles already with boats why add to them with a system known to be problematic.

 

regards

Steve

Edited July 25, 2007 by anhar

[chris w]

It is my understanding that an East German engineer was sacked during the early development of this product. Whether or not he was a genuine engineer is not known.

 

 

I have been away for a few days and not on the internet. I laughed my head off at this response. I rarely agree with anything Carl says (or he with me) but I do love the humour

 

Chris

[carlt]

surely you would agree with my comments on Eberspachers. I myself avoided that make in my new boat for that reason.

Yes, I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole (discuss) but I don't think Lisa is in a position to rip hers out and go and get a decent diesel heater, so, if her problem lies with the fuel (as some have suggested) then this needs to be addressed (hence our circular row).As she also can't fit another tank then kerosene is not a solution, unless the engine will run on it.One of the problems fitting oil-fired rayburns is that they are jetted for 28 second oil, so you have to re-jet them for red diesel, though I know someone who's been running their rayburn on red for years, with the original jets. Could Eberspachers have a similar problem?

I have been away for a few days and not on the internet. I laughed my head off at this response. I rarely agree with anything Carl says (or he with me) but I do love the humour Chris

If everybody agreed with everone else we'd all be communists, then we'd all be to blame.

[chris w]

I don't agree with you Carl comrade

Edited July 25, 2007 by chris w

[BlueStringPudding]

Erm... for fear of dipping back into my own thread about Eberspachers...

 

I just want ours to work! However inefficiently/temperamentally they run on red diesel, white diesel or purple diesel with green spots on, our recently serviced Eberspacher ain't working proper!

 

And neither's my grammar... (Although what's she's got to do with anything...?)

[cyclic]

Erm... for fear of dipping back into my own thread about Eberspachers...

 

I just want ours to work! However inefficiently/temperamentally they run on red diesel, white diesel or purple diesel with green spots on, our recently serviced Eberspacher ain't working proper!

 

And neither's my grammar... (Although what's she's got to do with anything...?)

 

We want it to work too, Perhaps starting a new thread might get those b*g*e*s off.

[carlt]

Yes, I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole (discuss) but I don't think Lisa is in a position to rip hers out and go and get a decent diesel heater, so, if her problem lies with the fuel (as some have suggested) then this needs to be addressed (hence our circular row).As she also can't fit another tank then kerosene is not a solution, unless the engine will run on it.One of the problems fitting oil-fired rayburns is that they are jetted for 28 second oil, so you have to re-jet them for red diesel, though I know someone who's been running their rayburn on red for years, with the original jets. Could Eberspachers have a similar problem?

I did drift back on topic with my last post, perhaps you missed it.

[cyclic]

I did drift back on topic with my last post, perhaps you missed it.

If that was directed at me, No I didn't, ,but I was more amused at the bickering amongst the rank and file. Just like a gang of school kids.

[anhar]

If that was directed at me, No I didn't, ,but I was more amused at the bickering amongst the rank and file. Just like a gang of school kids.

As a self appointed member of the Off Topic Police Chris, having tried to scare off the "buggers" as you kindly called people like myself who have the temerity to post anything other than that with which you agree, and you've done it before too, I've noticed that your pointless contributions, far more off topic than anything Carl, myself, Gary or anyone else has said, have done nothing to help Lisa's problem.

 

At least we were discussing Eberspacher's problems with red diesel, alternative fuels and their availablity around the cut and so on which wasn't actually off topic at all. But even if we were discussing the price of fish, it aint your business to interfere. Anyone can simply bring the thread back on topic by posting relevant matter, and if enough people do so off topic messages tend to dry up. We don't need the Gestapo. Quite often though I've found, off topics develop when the original thread has run its course anyway.

 

Anyway Lisa, you may know this already but Eberspacher recommend the additive Fuelset as a possible remedy for the problem they have with red diesel. As it happens I have a completely unused bottle of the stuff I bought before being told that I shouldn't use it because my ch boiler, unusually, doesn't like it! You are welcome to have it for nothing if you like though I'm in West London.

 

regards

Steve

Edited July 26, 2007 by anhar

[carlt]

Just like a gang of school kids.

Excellent point!

 

I remember at school we used to have these huge football matches at lunchtime.

Almost all the kids would split into two teams and the whole of the playground and sportsfield would be the pitch. Great fun!!

Of course there would always be one or two killjoys saying "Actually, according to FA rules, football should only be 11 a side.

 

Can we get back on topic now, please, Chris?

[BlueStringPudding]

Anyway Lisa, you may know this already but Eberspacher recommend the additive Fuelset as a possible remedy for the problem they have with red diesel. As it happens I have a completely unused bottle of the stuff I bought before being told that I shouldn't use it because my ch boiler, unusually, doesn't like it! You are welcome to have it for nothing if you like though I'm in West London.

 

regards

Steve

 

That's very kind of you, Steve. Thanks. But I too have an unused bottle of Fuelset which I bought recently. I'd better start using it...

[carlt]

That's very kind of you, Steve. Thanks. But I too have an unused bottle of Fuelset which I bought recently. I'd better start using it...

It should help with the smoking (is it still smoking?).

[Mr Jinks]

Just a tad 'off topic', does anybody know if it's possible to run the pump within the Eberspacher without running the burner?

 

Tim.

Tim I asked the same question to Webasto and was strongley advised not to! and was advised to fit a second pump to the central heating circuit and control it seperatly.

The pumps are non resistive and therefore wont hinder the operation of the original pump when switched off.

The net result which was what I was looking for is that I dont need to switch on the webasto when we are running the engine.

We have a twin coiled calorifier which now works backwards and by operating the second pump circulating the central heating water the engine coil heats the calorifier which heats the central heating coil and the pump ciculates the water t the rads.

Steven from NB MR JINKS.

[Mr Jinks]

Just a tad 'off topic', does anybody know if it's possible to run the pump within the Eberspacher without running the burner?

 

Tim.

Tim I asked the same question to Webasto and was strongley advised not to! and was advised to fit a second pump to the central heating circuit and control it seperatly.

The pumps are non resistive and therefore wont hinder the operation of the original pump when switched off.

The net result which was what I was looking for is that I dont need to switch on the webasto when we are running the engine.

We have a twin coiled calorifier which now works backwards and by operating the second pump circulating the central heating water the engine coil heats the calorifier which heats the central heating coil and the pump ciculates the water t the rads.

Steven from NB MR JINKS.

[chris w]

Steven

 

Great idea to use the excess heat from the engine for the C/H.

 

Did Webasto give a reason for not running their pump on its own? Afterall, when the Webasto is running normally the pump is running all the time and even when the unit reaches temperature and goes into idle-mode, the Webasto pump still keeps running.

 

Chris

[Fuel__2001]

Had a go at "bleeding" out the airlocks from the obvious cold spots in the Eberspacher pipes round the calorifier tank yesterday. Re-bled all the radiators, kept the header tank topped up. But to no avail.

 

The Eberspacher still cuts out after almost exactly ten minutes (the one time it didn't, there was an almighty "pop!" at about the 12 minute mark and loads of billowing white smoke - so we panicked and turned it off - and left it off). Pipes still didn't get hot. But at least after my success wiring in the mini-timer, we can turn it on and off safely!

 

Oh, well. I feel my birthday week holiday will now be spent en route to Braunston to see their "engineers" instead of staying at the Marriott in London...! I'll give them a bell this afternoon and see if they can see us that week.

 

Any nice pubs in Braunston?

 

Have you tried turning off all the radiators and just see if the feed flow and return pipe to the radiators gets hot all the way round, narrowing the problem?

 

No - should I be?

 

Yes your right to leave it off when bleeding

 

 

It wouldve been much more beneficial to buy a 7 day timer with the fault retrival on it. Much cheaper than a call out from eberspacher agent then you can fix all the probelms yourself.

 

Sorry I took so long to reply, been working away again.

 

Hope you find the problem

[chris w]

Have you tried turning off all the radiators and just see if the feed flow and return pipe to the radiators gets hot all the way round, narrowing the problem?

 

 

If you turn off all the radiators, there is no longer a complete circuit so the flow and return will be cold. There is no loop (or at least there shouldn't be); the radiators are in parallel across the flow and return and the ends of the flow and return pipes are not joined together in a proper installation.

 

Chris

[Mr Jinks]

Steven

 

Great idea to use the excess heat from the engine for the C/H.

 

Did Webasto give a reason for not running their pump on its own? Afterall, when the Webasto is running normally the pump is running all the time and even when the unit reaches temperature and goes into idle-mode, the Webasto pump still keeps running.

 

Chris

Morning Chris,

 

We conacted Toby @ Keto marine in Poole, he is a excellent guy, really knowledgable and helpful, he didn't like the idea of using 2 power supplies from 2 sources. We have installed the extra pump today, and are trying it out as we speak,

Fingers crossed Steven Mr Jinks

[Mr Jinks]

Had a go at "bleeding" out the airlocks from the obvious cold spots in the Eberspacher pipes round the calorifier tank yesterday. Re-bled all the radiators, kept the header tank topped up. But to no avail.

 

The Eberspacher still cuts out after almost exactly ten minutes (the one time it didn't, there was an almighty "pop!" at about the 12 minute mark and loads of billowing white smoke - so we panicked and turned it off - and left it off). Pipes still didn't get hot. But at least after my success wiring in the mini-timer, we can turn it on and off safely!

 

Oh, well. I feel my birthday week holiday will now be spent en route to Braunston to see their "engineers" instead of staying at the Marriott in London...! I'll give them a bell this afternoon and see if they can see us that week.

 

Any nice pubs in Braunston?

Morning, We had the same problem with our webasto heating when we cahnged a radiator, we had the burner serviced because of the smoke and a burner pipe changed. but it would fire up and turn off within miniutes....the engineer was useless, and kept trying different things and charging each time11, in the end I contacted Toby @ Keto marine Webasto people, who said it is always air....once it is in the sytem it is awful to get it out!!. We gave up with the engineer, and sat and bled the system without the pump running, refilling the heater tank , for about a hour, then it would run for 9 miniutes and cut out, we then allowed it to cool, added antifreeze, and bled it again,. Each time for around a hour, and each time we gained another miniute to the run time, we were told it is good to do this after the system has been off for as long as possible if you are luckly the air moves , so first thing in the morning is good, eventually after much bleeding and swearing it statrted to run it's full cycle, and we haven't had any trouble since, we have just added another pump to circulate heat to the radiators when the engine is running, we laost a bout a cupful of water...so we bled it for about half an hour to be on the safe side...all OK good luck...I'm sure the problem is the same AIR Wendy MrJinks

[chris w]

Morning Chris,

 

We conacted Toby @ Keto marine in Poole, he is a excellent guy, really knowledgable and helpful, he didn't like the idea of using 2 power supplies from 2 sources. We have installed the extra pump today, and are trying it out as we speak,

Fingers crossed Steven Mr Jinks

 

I wonder why then he didn't suggest one power supply from one source? ie: simply install a bypass switch which switches the Webasto pump ON from the same source it normally gets its power.

 

Chris

[cyclic]

The Eberspacher still cuts out after almost exactly ten minutes (the one time it didn't, there was an almighty "pop!" at about the 12 minute mark and loads of billowing white smoke - so we panicked and turned it off - and left it off). Pipes still didn't get hot. But at least after my success wiring in the mini-timer, we can turn it on and off safely!

 

Another thought. Do your radiators have thermostats fitted?

If they do have, they can get stuck (as one of mine did) and when you think the rad is ON, it isn't.

 

Did you trace the pipework from the Eberspacher>Calorifier>radiator circuit yet? It still sounds to me as if the circuit is incomplete due to either airlock, rad off or some other blockage.

 

chris w My circuit has One radiator in series and if that one is turned off, the heater cuts out after 10 mins. cos the water gets too hot.

The other 2 rads are in "Parallel" across the flow and return, and on or off have no effect on the heater function.

I was under the impression that the usual circuit would have a radiator or towel rail in series, always open or on, and completing the circuit.....?? like a heat sink.?

[chris w]

chris w My circuit has One radiator in series and if that one is turned off, the heater cuts out after 10 mins. cos the water gets too hot.

The other 2 rads are in "Parallel" across the flow and return, and on or off have no effect on the heater function.

I was under the impression that the usual circuit would have a radiator or towel rail in series, always open or on, and completing the circuit.....?? like a heat sink.?

 

Putting rads in series on a heating circuit is very unusual. The normal practice is to have all the rads in parallel with at least one of them (usually the towel rail) not having a thermostatic valve to ensure there is always a heatsink.

 

Chris

[cyclic]

Putting rads in series on a heating circuit is very unusual. The normal practice is to have all the rads in parallel with at least one of them (usually the towel rail) not having a thermostatic valve to ensure there is always a heatsink.

 

Chris

I guess I've got unusual then. Perhaps why it took so long to figure out. My lounge rad is the one that should not have a thermostat because it can't be changed to anything but full on.

a Liverpool boats quirk maybe.. I don't have a towel rail in the circuit..........yet.

[Mr Jinks]

I wonder why then he didn't suggest one power supply from one source? ie: simply install a bypass switch which switches the Webasto pump ON from the same source it normally gets its power.

 

Chris

 

I wanted to mimic the over temp stat that makes the pump run after the heating cycle but I think the reason was posible back feed but more likely waranty and who to blame if somthing goes wrong.

Any the second pump is fitted in line and and is fed via its own switch and supply.

It works as I expected and gets the rads to a warm temperature whilst the engine is running which will be perfect when moving in winter.

 

Steve