Fuel__2001

I've got a new horizontal calorifier which now sits on the swim with the coil connections above the engine, the boiler connections are not an issue but wondering about the engine connections to the 2nd coil and whether to fit a header tank or not; room to fit a header isn't an issue So, the engine is an Isuzu 55 - i cant find this manual online. I've found the canaline manual which im guessing would be a close match to my engine, it talks about the calorifier position (P29) 300/450mm above the engine and no more than 3m of pipe work. This would mean no header tank, save some money and work - just leaves me with the question of, would this approach work and what to do about bleeding air from the system? the C-Warm pdf (p7) talks about having a header tank above the calorifier coils as the engine is below the coil - this would involve some work and money. So, what do you think is the best approach? header or not? Thanks

Theres me, thee and 2 children, still onboard a 57'x10' - 12 years later with the eldest child whose 11 and youngest whose 2 - its all they have ever known and now share a room. things to consider - We used a multifuel stove for years as a primary source of heating, but the mess of coal and wood and moving to Scotland put pay to that, pressing a button is a far easier option and means i get to play with the kids rather than chopping wood/lugging coal. So, Hot water/Heating; does your system have the ability to provide a plentiful supply on demand; after years of managing with a 60 litre,calorifier with immersion, multifuel stove, eberspacher (which stopped working after 3 years) it was tough; when the youngest was born we changed the heating/hot water system and now have a Harworth PJ Diesel Boiler with a 100L calorifier, this means everyone can have a shower whenever they want and the smallest child can have a bath, all while the boat is being heated in the mornings and the washing up is being done - all at the same time, this is nothing short of a miracle and amazes me everytime i press the button to start the heating. The eldest spent 20 minutes in the shower the other day, the only limiting factor is the size of the water tank. Washer dryer - with that many people onboard doing laundry is a task and being able to dry it in the winter is key Due to the above the 500 litre water tank now gets filled a couple of times a week Cooking - domestic gas oven and gas hob - if the electric in the marina goes down we can still cook Storage (inc Fridge and Freezer) - being able to store food for a family of 4 and all the crockery/pots/pans etc and inviting guests, childrens friends. Table - having a table to eat meals at rather than off laps to teach some important social skills With small ones just learning to walk, making sure you can lock both ends of the boat Toilet - we have a pumpout rather than a camping thetford Due to the schooling regime we don't CC Electrics - we have 2x240v rings as we are quite a power hungry family and like our comforts Thats for starters - after years of making do, roughing it, getting by and working out what we need, we finally have it sussed and ot only took 10 years and 2 refits!

The lock keepers up here all do things slightly different, Scottish Canals are a law unto themselves - on the Muirtown Flight and at Dochgarrach you can use your engines but depends upon the staff. They certainly wouldn't be asking the commercial craft to turn their engines off - http://lordoftheglens.co.uk/ page 6 will explain it though - https://www.scottishcanals.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/caledonian-skippers-guide-rev.pdf

http://www.boattransporter.co.uk/ A family firm, I used them from the Southeast to Scotland, not a hitch despite closing some of the main trunk roads on the way up; had to do this journey over 2 days. They have been in the game donkeys and were cheapest by far.

I used skamotec 225 which comes in 25mm thickness and you can paint on top rather than going down the traditional route of tiling - its really easy to work with and get a great modern look. Also, hardibacker board from Topps Tiles which I used to create the air gap, as the boards are 12mm I cant over emphasise the importance of an air gap - when i took down the previous stove installation as we moved the stove, i found out just how dangerous the installation was and how lucky we were. The wood behind the tiles was burnt and scorched as it had no airgap between the tiles and wood. This time I completed the installation and used soliftec as a guide. The stove is much closer to the fire surround than the previous installation, but due to the airgap the wood behind the skamotec is stone cold to the touch. Much safer and happier

There are 2 road swing bridges in Inverness which need to be coordinated due to the emergency services needing access to the city and beyond so they aren't both open at the same time. These bridge can and have broken down - We have had it in Inverness with the swing bridges during the summer heat, that when they swung one of the bridges it wouldn't shut again as it had expanded enough just so as to not close properly, very funny but potentially quite serious consequences if it happened to both as would would cut the city in half

Have a look at Baumatic, these have lpg jets and FFD as standard on their gas appliances. They run off 240v; even if you aren't connected to the mains and use matches to light the hob the FFD still works. The oven fan will also run off a sine wave inverter.

Agree with being responsible for what you post, just like any other forum, but you dont own the space it occupies. This may be a pubic forum, but the reality is it is closed space. In signing up to any forum you sign away any certain rights and freedoms, posting or being able to comment is at the discretion of a mod, so it is not a right, it is a privilege. Blackrose - thankyou for taking the time to respond to the original post and yes the houdini hatch is in that space so a small one can reach the hatch from the bed.

Considering i created the thread i thought i better actually post. You went well off topic as the thoughts were about the actual concept of Losing the bow beck - i refer to the OP and it seems this thread has spiralled into something else. If you think it doesnt look right that is a fair comment - its just some of the other comments made arent keeping within the context of the site rules. As for 'right to reply or general comment' you might want to reacquaint yourself with http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules - Our aim is to provide a forum for focused, high quality discussion. We therefore request that with the exception of the Virtual Pub forum, all posts should be kept on topic and banter free. This facilitates quality discussion and is for the benefit of all members. Moderators (Site Crew) reserve the right to close, edit or remove any topic or post without justification.........so you don't have the right to reply or general comment (good or bad) as your posts are owned by this forum, just like any other forum.

Do you mean something like this http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/display.phtml?aid=170786 Having spoken again with our fabricator, he said he will be able to use machinery to bend the steel (cabin sides and roof) to match any existing lines to remain in keeping. Something i dont quite understand is the terminology, kness and stringers and where these are on the boat.

We've spoken to someone about this and that is what they have also recommended, is cutting up the original bulkhead but leaving 130mm surround in place, then adding the new bulkhead to the gas locker. Getting the cabin sides to match is a good point!

For a while weve been thinking about creating some more internal space on our 57'x10' widebeam, cruiser stern. Instead of having a cratch cover installed on the bow, the idea was to remove the current bow bulkhead and weld in place a new bulkhead against the gas locker, thereby removing the doors completely and having no bow deck - we really dont use the bow deck and its wasted space. SO the bow deck would then become part of our bedroom Low and behold in next months copy of 'canal boat' the widebeam 'Ansuka' has had this done - http://www.canalboat.co.uk/in-this-issue-index Would it be possible to retro fit this new bulkhead and completely remove all traces of the existing bulkhead without compromising the integrity of the structure?

ENOUGH please, i appreciate everyones input on the vented, closed and pressure relief systems that have been discussed on this thread. I have the information i need to make a decision based on the information from here and elsewhere, i thank you all for the banter and input. People will agree and disagree on the merits of whats best and thats what makes for great discussion. The last piece of the jigsaw which you'll be pleased to know doesn't relate to the type of system im using, is shopping for a 'pipe stat' The pipe stats ive seen are for 240v or are they also able to work from 12v supply?

I think i'll have myself one of these its far to early for

Have a read of this http://www.boilerstoves.co.uk/vented-or-pressurised.html What im suggesting is something in between - where, the sealed header tank creates pressurise, has the ability to expand but will also vent when it reaches a certain pressure.

Cheers Steve Does this 'feed and expansion tank' also act as your vent, or do you have a separate vent running back to the tank or elsewhere? John

Thankyou Pete, I see this is where the conflict arises, when some say you can use a 'pressurised system' and others say only 'open vent'. Looking at the suitability of the eber header its not a completely closed system, it will only pressurise to a certain level, then vent if the pressure gets too much. I assume this is where you see the danger arising. I could just remove the rad cap from the eber header and run a vent back to it, which seems a very simple option as i wont be using the eber and stove at the same time. The only difference between this and a domestic setup is there is no cold feed. In a typical open vent with header, how is this achieved on a boat as a domestic header is large, typically with a ball cock and cold feed.

Pete You've stopped smiling! I came here for information and help, hopefully for others to spot errors or concerns with the setup i want to use. In fact, youve highlighted everything in red and repeated yourself. In getting me to jump through your hoops will this help me to achieve a safe a reliable pumped system from the information i have provided? If you think im going to blow my boat up and make it unsafe, then please say so. Otherwise, lets keep this thread on topic. As youve said nothing about me using the eber header and pressure cap can i take it this is ok?

I appreciate your concerns and certainly dont take offence to your comments. I actually welcome them. The eberspacher header tank which im looking to use is something i need to investigate further. I was hoping the pressure cap on the header tank can deal with the venting as there is also a small over flow at the top of the header tank should the system over pressurise. As for a dump rad - if the back boiler is rated a 3Kw and the minimum rad system that would ever be used is 3Kw, do i really need a dump rad on a pumped system? What is your PRV rated to? Or the question should be, if the rad cap on the eber header is above 4 bar is this out of range and liable to cause over pressurisation?

Mike, you do manage to paint a very funny picture in my mind with your descriptions That aside, if i was to tackle this job then thats partly how i can see this unfolding, by installing a system and then some tweaking. Im totally in agreement - Not only will i get my advice from here, but i will also be seeking from elsewhere - i do find this forum extremely knowledgeable and the input on this thread so far has been brilliant. No way am I put off tackling this installation and if at any time i feel overwhelmed then I would call in the experts. As this thread is progressing, i do have more questions which i will follow up with in another post. I do engines, electrics, small scale pipework (bathroom installation) and gas, but i dont do wood - i hate wood and cant work with it, the only thing wood is good for after i finished with it is burning Knowing my limits is vital for a safe installation This thread is really the starting point for the installation. I see this stage of the work as the most important part of the process, as it will dictate the type of installation, what i buy and how i lay the pipe work. Im taking my time and am in no hurry to get the job done, as I would like to do it and get it right first time. You may have noticed by the pictures i posted earlier, how the design has changed as im getting to grips with what I would like the installation to accomplish and what it actually needs to achieve this. Once again Mike your description is beautifully worded, i read your post out to a friend and we were rolling about the place

Thanks for uploading those pictures, I managed to have a look at the pics on my phone. Is it possible you can upload those pictures again so i can have a better look at them on my PC? I find tinypic a much better hosting service than image shack. The diesel heaters have their place but as for relying on them full time like a normal domestic heating -

The hydronic 10 was on our 57'x10' widebeam when bought it from NBC. The five rads on there own are touching the 5.5Kw as rad 1 is a beast of a rad, thats not including the calorifier. Ive tried for days/weeks to balance the rads using the lock shields and i can get rads 1-4 roasting but rad 5 even with the other rads closed just doesnt get much heat. Im sure this is due to the length of pipe run and the eber not having enough power from its pump. Eber have some literature regarding the maximum length of pipe run and we go over the maximum length of pipe run As for the eber being reliable - im sure theres plenty of posts on here about this For the first 3 years the eber was the only source of heating and with a 'new born' got a right battering. I know about the gas oil debate and its completely unreliable using this fuel. We had a lovely run just using paraffin/kersone until the local garage closed down. Been using ultra low gas oil since, and hasnt been to much of an issue other than a blower motor dying and new glow plug. The burner got coked up last winter, i actually cut the fuel pipe off the burner and got a friend to weld/braise the pipe back onto chamber. In future if the chamber needs decoking the best place to gain access is to cut off the long cylinder, that way you can get right to the back of the chamber where the fuel drips into the chamber near the glow plug.

Those photo's would be a great help The eberspacher is a hydronic 10 and whilst it works does a good job - although the exhaust has decided to fall apart which is why its time to get this other system operational. The eberspacher typically always breaks down in the winter! One of the issues with the current setup is the the length of run of pipework. Even the eberspacher has trouble heating the single bedroom as this is the last rad on the 'pipe run' and about 60' away from the burner. The pipe work runs up the left and partially down the right. Rads 4&5 are opposite rad 2, although on different sides of the boat. Currently all the rads have TRV, hopefully the picture has more info The idea of putting a thermostatic valve on the calorifier is excellent, as this might actually help to increase the output to rad 5 using the eber. I did try putting another pump on the pipe work but this didnt help either in getting heat to rad 5. Ive had a look at the two 12v pump options bolin/jabsco - does anyone no if these limited by a length of pipe run? Ive not had a measure up yet but i would assume somewhere in the region of 40'-50' of pipe run for the 12v pump just to heat rads 2-5.

Cheers Steve Some great ideas to consider which might actually be a better way to go. The only drawback I can see is the output for rads 2 to 5 which combined is about 3Kw. The backboiler is rated to 3Kw so adding in the calorifier, the back boiler might not be enough, but still a great idea. Thanks for the info on the bolin pump Just curious why you would consider using the T valve over the L valve? I need to get the back boiler out as im not certain if there is a bleed valve incorporated into it (like a radiator) - is this valve something that usually is, or has to be fitted into the pipe work behind the stove?

Thanks for your replies. Firstly the pump - ive seen Jabsco do a 12v heating pump, not cheap but are there any others to consider? (links would be good;)) Bleed valve and a pressure relief safety valve - if i move the eberspacher header tank connection so it can feed either system, like in this alternative setup im considering, would i still need to fit the bleed and PR valves into the alternative system?