Helping out.

[BigRoj]

We had a weeks cruising to Boston during the Spring Break, from Colwick. Great fun, I love it.

However, although most of us wave and speak when we pass, and there generally is no snobbiness thankfully, I was somewhat surprised by the lack of cooperation from another boater after an incident in Lincoln, and it was this:

 

As you may be aware, there are no visitor moorings as such on the Brayford anymore (which in my opinion is a huge mistake), only the 48hr ones at the west end just under the new bridge, most of those taken by a couple of NBs rafted up and another alongside. We managed to get a berth on these 48hr moorings just as the weather set in on the saturday night, so we decided to stay until the rain stopped, which, with it being a bank holiday, was obviously going to be monday evening. (And it was)

On the monday afternoon, as we sloshed our way back to the boat from another soggy foray around Lincoln, we found one of the NBs at right angles to the bank, blocking the waterway. Couldn't see anyone on it, but we waited to see what was going to happen as there was a trip boat, (the larger of the two) and a cruiser coming from opposite directions. We thought the owner was out of site for a moment. It soon occured to us that the NB was adrift, without power, and fairly inaccessible from the bank.

The owner of a small cruiser was parked in front of me, and I mentioned that we ought to do something about the NB, get it in out of harms way. I may as well have been suggesting that we go and steal the Magna Charter from the Cathedral for all the response I got from this fellow boater.

So in the end I did it myself, using 2 ropes and a bit of muscle. Found out that one of the mooring ropes wasn't secured and the NB had just slipped its mooring and floated out until it came to rest against the two NBs rafted up together, but I must say I was disappointed by the lack of cooperation from the other boater.

 

So if you have a NB moored on the BW 48hr outside the student flats at lincoln, and it appears to be the opposite way round to the way you left it, then thats why!!!

 

Perhaps a knot-tying refresher course wouldn't go amiss either!

Edited June 11, 2007 by BigRoj

[John Orentas]

Must be worth a few bob that Magna Carta, I'm up for it. PM me sometime we can get things organised

[allybsc]

Last year we came across a Middlewich narrow boat at the lion Salt works that had blown off it's pins and was wedged across the cut, with great difficulty we managed to get on board in the strong winds and manhandle it back to the side, as we were struggling with it another NB came up and honked it's horn repeatedly, no offer of help just more honking, it took us about 20 mins to get it tied up again, all the while with this moody pensioner honking like a goose, I could have drowned him.

[carlt]

Last year we came across a Middlewich narrow boat at the lion Salt works that had blown off it's pins and was wedged across the cut, with great difficulty we managed to get on board in the strong winds and manhandle it back to the side, as we were struggling with it another NB came up and honked it's horn repeatedly, no offer of help just more honking, it took us about 20 mins to get it tied up again, all the while with this moody pensioner honking like a goose, I could have drowned him.

I'd have sat down on the roof and rolled a fag. Although, since stopping smoking I'm not sure what I'd do now. Drown him probably, in the absence of a crossword or something to read.

[StoneHenge]

I'd have honked back to see who got bored first. Honestly some people.

 

Cheek!

[NB Phoenix]

I'd have honked back to see who got bored first. Honestly some people.

 

Cheek!

 

Or offer him an exchange, you go and honk on the horn whilst he secures the narrowboat

[Lady Muck]

Happened to us the other week - see our cruise diary, no one helped, no it didn't bother us - we are constantly having to secure drifting nb - this one was worse because they really didn't have sufficient mooring lines in order to do the job easily. I think he thought we might be nicking it, probably explains the lack of gratitude!

 

Yes some people are of no help. Was waiting for a bus last night when this bloke had an epileptic fit. He asked for help, everyone ran away (literally). The poor guy was terrified, stayed with him, called an ambulance, calmed him down.

 

(puts Buddhist hat on)

 

IMO lifes too short to worry about other peoples (lack of) action. Take the right action yourself and make the difference. If people want to take the piss or do nothing then more fool them. Don't waste time worrying about it, show the right way by example.

[mayalld]

Happened to us the other week - see our cruise diary, no one helped, no it didn't bother us - we are constantly having to secure drifting nb - this one was worse because they really didn't have sufficient mooring lines in order to do the job easily. I think he thought we might be nicking it, probably explains the lack of gratitude!

 

Yes some people are of no help. Was waiting for a bus last night when this bloke had an epileptic fit. He asked for help, everyone ran away (literally). The poor guy was terrified, stayed with him, called an ambulance, calmed him down.

 

TBH, the kind of people who run away from an epileptic fit are the same people who wouldn't have a bloody clue what to do to actually help, so the most helpful thing they can do is run away!

[Lady Muck]

TBH, the kind of people who run away from an epileptic fit are the same people who wouldn't have a bloody clue what to do to actually help, so the most helpful thing they can do is run away!

 

I didn't have a bloody clue what to do either - but how hard is it to dial 999, really? He showed his medic alert bracelet and asked for an ambulance. The first girl he asked scowled and crossed the road!

Edited June 11, 2007 by Lady Muck

[mayalld]

I didn't have a bloody clue what to do either - but how hard is it to dial 999, really? He showed his medic alert bracelet and asked for an ambulance. The first girl he asked scowled and crossed the road!

 

That assumes that dialing 999 is the right thing to do!

 

(most of the time, it isn't necessary)

[carlt]

That assumes that dialing 999 is the right thing to do!

 

(most of the time, it isn't necessary)

If you are in any doubt what to do, always dial 999!

Only a Doctor, the person having the fit, or maybe a family member is qualified to make that decision.

 

Same goes for any injury. First rule of first aid is that you are there to make comfortable and maintain life, if necessary. You cannot make medical decisions or administer medicines.

[Djuwenda]

That assumes that dialing 999 is the right thing to do!

 

(most of the time, it isn't necessary)

 

it is if you dont know what you're doing...

[mayalld]

If you are in any doubt what to do, always dial 999!

Only a Doctor, the person having the fit, or maybe a family member is qualified to make that decision.

 

Same goes for any injury. First rule of first aid is that you are there to make comfortable and maintain life, if necessary. You cannot make medical decisions or administer medicines.

 

But if you are in no doubt, then you can make an informed decision.

 

First aid is all about making decisions as to whether to call 999. If it wasn't, then we'd be calling 999 for every cut finger!!

 

The first aid protocol for an epileptic fit is to make the person as comfortable as possible, and remove anything from their vicinity that might injure them.

 

It is only necessary to call an ambulance if;

1. The fit or period of unconciousness following it goes on for more than 5 minutes
   
2. A second fit follows immediately
   
3. They sustain other injuries whilst fitting that require an ambulance
   
4. 
   

[adam1uk]

But if you are in no doubt, then you can make an informed decision.

 

First aid is all about making decisions as to whether to call 999. If it wasn't, then we'd be calling 999 for every cut finger!!

 

The first aid protocol for an epileptic fit is to make the person as comfortable as possible, and remove anything from their vicinity that might injure them.

 

It is only necessary to call an ambulance if;

1. The fit or period of unconciousness following it goes on for more than 5 minutes
   
2. A second fit follows immediately
   
3. They sustain other injuries whilst fitting that require an ambulance
   
4. 
   

 

Was 4. going to be: If the person having the fit asks for one, which is what Lady Muck said happened in this case? I'd have thought that if the person with the fit asks you to call an ambulance, that's exactly what you'd do.

[mayalld]

Was 4. going to be: If the person having the fit asks for one, which is what Lady Muck said happened in this case? I'd have thought that if the person with the fit asks you to call an ambulance, that's exactly what you'd do.

 

4 was going to be deleted.

 

It depends on your judgement as to whether the person having the fit is sufficiently rational to make the decision.

 

If it was me, and it was my view that making the casualty safe was a higher priority, I would do that.

[Hairy-Neil]

I may as well have been suggesting that we go and steal the Magna Charter from the Cathedral .......

 

 

Must be worth a few bob that Magna Carta, I'm up for it. PM me sometime we can get things organised

 

You'll struggle to steal it from the cathedral...........

 

Though its officially held by the cathedral's archives its actually housed and displayed at Lincoln Castle.....

[carlt]

But if you are in no doubt, then you can make an informed decision.

 

First aid is all about making decisions as to whether to call 999. If it wasn't, then we'd be calling 999 for every cut finger!!

 

The first aid protocol for an epileptic fit is to make the person as comfortable as possible, and remove anything from their vicinity that might injure them.

 

It is only necessary to call an ambulance if;

1. The fit or period of unconciousness following it goes on for more than 5 minutes
   
2. A second fit follows immediately
   
3. They sustain other injuries whilst fitting that require an ambulance
   
4. 
   

Well, after looking at the National Society for Epilepsy's website, I see their advice is different to my first aid training.

 

The question I would ask is how would the first aider be able to distinguish an epileptic seizure from one of the many other more life threatening conditions which may produce identical symptoms.

In the absence of a medic alert bracelet, I would still assume the worst and ring an ambulance.

 

When doing my 1st aid training we were asked what we would do if we found someone we thought was having a heart attack.

My hand went up and I went through the usual procedure, including putting an aspirin under the tongue (increases the chances of survival by seven times). Trainer says ok but the guy was actually having a huge attack of heartburn caused by an inflamed stomach ulcer that your aspirin has aggravated, caused to perforate, and he died in the ambulance.

 

If it were me having a siezure I would still rather be found by Lady Muck with her mobile (especially if she was wearing that jaunty hat) than some know-all who's read 'the duffer's guide to making uninformed decisions' who'll stand and wait 5 minutes while my embolism is cutting off the blood to my brain. PVS here we come!

[Lady Muck]

I have not done a first aid course ( the incident has made me think I should do one), but I thought that you had to had a pretty serious condition to be given a medic alert bracelet to wear so I thought it was best left to the professionals.

 

Anyway, I'd rather find a nb that has come untied, far less stressful!

Edited June 12, 2007 by Lady Muck

[mayalld]

Well, after looking at the National Society for Epilepsy's website, I see their advice is different to my first aid training.

It is identical to my first aid training, and corresponds to the advice that I gave above!

The question I would ask is how would the first aider be able to distinguish an epileptic seizure from one of the many other more life threatening conditions which may produce identical symptoms.

In the absence of a medic alert bracelet, I would still assume the worst and ring an ambulance.

 

When doing my 1st aid training we were asked what we would do if we found someone we thought was having a heart attack.

My hand went up and I went through the usual procedure, including putting an aspirin under the tongue (increases the chances of survival by seven times). Trainer says ok but the guy was actually having a huge attack of heartburn caused by an inflamed stomach ulcer that your aspirin has aggravated, caused to perforate, and he died in the ambulance.

 

If it were me having a siezure I would still rather be found by Lady Muck with her mobile (especially if she was wearing that jaunty hat) than some know-all who's read 'the duffer's guide to making uninformed decisions' who'll stand and wait 5 minutes while my embolism is cutting off the blood to my brain. PVS here we come!

And if the ambulance comes to you when you didn't need it meaning that somebody who did need it suffered a delay in getting an ambulance, and died?

 

I have not done a first aid course ( the incident has made me think I should do one), but I thought that you had to had a pretty serious condition to be given a medic alert bracelet to wear so I thought it was best left to the professionals.

 

Loads of people have medic alert bracelets.

 

They do not mean "if anything happens, call an ambulance"

[allybsc]

MY second son has epilepsy, he is all grown up (allegedly) and lives on his own, I would rather someone phoned 999 than wait and see if he goes into status epilepticus after 5 mins or so because he could have serious brain damage by then, better safe than sorry IMHO.

Edited to say he has only once gone into SE and I saw my GP panic, made me take things much more seriously after that.

Edited June 12, 2007 by allybsc

[tired old pirate]

last time I saved someone he threatened to sue our company for intervening in his suicide. Shouldnt have done it in a public place then should he

 

If you are tying up someones boat for them and they have an epileptic fit which causes a heart attack agravating their ulcers and threatening to bring on an embolism you should tell the nearest grown up straight away...... and they probably wouldnt care about their boat not being tied up

[mayalld]

MY second son has epilepsy, he is all grown up (allegedly) and lives on his own, I would rather someone phoned 999 than wait and see if he goes into status epilepticus after 5 mins or so because he could have serious brain damage by then, better safe than sorry IMHO.

Edited to say he has only once gone into SE and I saw my GP panic, made me take things much more seriously after that.

 

I ask again...

 

"What if that 999 call for an ambulance that wasn't necessary meant that somebody who did need an ambulance didn't get one in time"

 

The ambulance service simply doesn't have the resources to respond to every single epileptic fit, and the advice is designed to filter out the 99% of fits that are definitely not medical emergencies.

 

Status Epilepticus occurs after 30 minutes, not 5 minutes, and as such waiting 5 minutes before calling 999 is not going to result in a person entering SE before the ambulance arrives.

[allybsc]

I ask again...

 

"What if that 999 call for an ambulance that wasn't necessary meant that somebody who did need an ambulance didn't get one in time"

 

The ambulance service simply doesn't have the resources to respond to every single epileptic fit, and the advice is designed to filter out the 99% of fits that are definitely not medical emergencies.

 

Status Epilepticus occurs after 30 minutes, not 5 minutes, and as such waiting 5 minutes before calling 999 is not going to result in a person entering SE before the ambulance arrives.

 

MY GP told me if one fit rolls into the other and the siezure has not begun to subside after 5 minutes call an ambulance, what if it was your child, would you risk it, I bloody wouldn't.

 

Edited to say...

Incidently you are behind the times, I checked in case I was wrong

 

"Traditionally, status epilepticus was defined as 30 minutes of continuous seizure activity or a series of seizures without return to full consciousness between the seizures. Many believe that a shorter period of seizure activity causes neuronal injury and that seizure self-termination is unlikely after 5 minutes; some suggest times as brief as 4-5 minutes to define status epilepticus. For purposes of this review, a duration of 5 minutes of continuous generalized convulsive activity is used arbitrarily as part of the definition of GCSE"

Edited June 12, 2007 by allybsc

[mayalld]

MY GP told me if one fit rolls into the other and the siezure has not begun to subside after 5 minutes call an ambulance, what if it was your child, would you risk it, I bloody wouldn't.

 

Yes, but isn't that EXACTLY what I said above?

 

Fits longer than 5 minutes, or a second fit following on from the first warrant a 999 call.

[tired old pirate]

I ask again...

 

"What if that 999 call for an ambulance that wasn't necessary meant that somebody who did need an ambulance didn't get one in time"

 

The ambulance service simply doesn't have the resources to respond to every single epileptic fit, and the advice is designed to filter out the 99% of fits that are definitely not medical emergencies.

 

Status Epilepticus occurs after 30 minutes, not 5 minutes, and as such waiting 5 minutes before calling 999 is not going to result in a person entering SE before the ambulance arrives.

 

are you a doctor? I've got got this really nasty supporating spotty thing I need looking at, I'm 2 embarased to go to a normal doctor in case they judge me in any way but would you look at it ?

Edited June 12, 2007 by tired old pirate