Doing your research.

[Gary Peacock]

Being in the position to spend other peoples money on other peoples choices you become very aware of the lack of research that some people do and how influenced they are by the spin that all manufacturers use to market products. Just on a very quick scratch of the head these included

 

The quality competitively priced engine choice thats main advantage is that the builder makes more profit on it than any other.

 

The hydraulic bow thruster that didn't.

 

The expensive hydraulic drive on a narrowboat that's only amazing thing was how really expensive it was.

 

The cut price inverter that didn't.

 

The bargain generator that generated 300V of something similar to AC.

 

The hugely expensive sterling cycle engine generator that didn't.

 

The batteries with 5 year warranty that didn't.

 

The cheaper option bow thruster that melted.

 

The expensive diesel hob that didn't.

 

The very expensive twin inverter system that needed that many batteries they didn't have room.

 

The two gas less boats based on a well known free hand out that now have gas again.

 

The various black box charge controllers that didn't.

 

The fin rads that didn't.

 

The blown air heating system that didn't.

 

I could go on further all these products are waived around in the magazines and sales men who sell them will be all smiles and promises this weekend at Crick. But before being overcome by it all and reaching for your wallet stop and think!

 

There are even worse products around that we simply refuse to get involved with on boats, but the suppliers make a nice living out of selling them and why not? After all it's all about customer demand.

Edited May 21, 2007 by Gary Peacock

[SoggyMoggies]

At Beale Park last year there was a bloke who tried to sell me some solar panels.

 

"See", he said, "Even inside a tent, under artificial light, they still generate 11.6 volts".

 

I wasn't taken in for a second but I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't realise that open-circuit voltage is no indicator of performance.

[Tony Brooks]

At Beale Park last year there was a bloke who tried to sell me some solar panels.

 

"See", he said, "Even inside a tent, under artificial light, they still generate 11.6 volts".

 

I wasn't taken in for a second but I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't realise that open-circuit voltage is no indicator of performance.

 

 

Amen, amen to both of you.

 

I have just done a reply to someone wanting to move to live aboard who wanted to know how to improve their electrical system so they could moor up and not run the engine/generator. List of electrical items requiring supply included microwave, washing machine, coffee machine and so on. No mention of an iron & I bet they had no intention of using a flat iron on the gas and no mention of toilet type, but I can guess. They were already running a load of stuff off an inverter.

 

Pity is that these question come up several times a week.

 

Certain sections of the "trade" have a lot to answer for.

 

I think I talked to that (delete motor trade descriptive noun) person at the national and I also walked away. I hope I might have better luck getting a panel at Crick.

 

Tony Brooks

[ChrisPy]

Being in the position to spend other peoples money on other peoples choices you become very aware of the lack of research that some people do and how influenced they are by the spin that all manufacturers use to market products. Just on a very quick scratch of the head these included

 

The quality competitively priced engine choice thats main advantage is that the builder makes more profit on it than any other.

 

The hydraulic bow thruster that didn't.

 

The expensive hydraulic drive on a narrowboat that's only amazing thing was how really expensive it was.

 

The cut price inverter that didn't.

 

The bargain generator that generated 300V of something similar to AC.

 

The hugely expensive sterling cycle engine generator that didn't.

 

The batteries with 5 year warranty that didn't.

 

The cheaper option bow thruster that melted.

 

The expensive diesel hob that didn't.

 

The very expensive twin inverter system that needed that many batteries they didn't have room.

 

The two gas less boats based on a well known free hand out that now have gas again.

 

The various black box charge controllers that didn't.

 

The fin rads that didn't.

 

The blown air heating system that didn't.

 

I could go on further all these products are waived around in the magazines and sales men who sell them will be all smiles and promises this weekend at Crick. But before being overcome by it all and reaching for your wallet stop and think!

 

There are even worse products around that we simply refuse to get involved with on boats, but the suppliers make a nice living out of selling them and why not? After all it's all about customer demand.

pessimiste (said in a distinctive french accent) ..................

[RichardH]

Tres amusing.......

 

Of interest has anyone tried a Bargee Bill medieval fighting lance yet...........?

[NB Alnwick]

I could go on further all these products are waived around in the magazines and sales men who sell them will be all smiles and promises this weekend at Crick. But before being overcome by it all and reaching for your wallet stop and think!

 

There are even worse products around that we simply refuse to get involved with on boats, but the suppliers make a nice living out of selling them and why not? After all it's all about customer demand.

 

Sounds as if you need some of 'Doctor Green's' special pink pills - available from most unqualified medicine men they will cure all ills and make you feel better because your wallet will be lighter.

 

I have been reading through some old magazine from the 1930 - it is amazing some of the wierd stuff that was then on sail - like special tablets that you add to your petrol tank every time you fill up - you will soon notice that you are putting less petrol in your tank than before . . .

 

[David Schweizer]

Sounds as if you need some of 'Doctor Green's' special pink pills ......

And then there is John Orentas's' anti-kangaroo powder. Must ne very good there aren't many kangaroos in Oldham!!

 

[Gary Peacock]

Tres amusing.......

 

Of interest has anyone tried a Bargee Bill medieval fighting lance yet...........?

 

Come on then come clean!

 

Someone must have one!

[NB Alnwick]

Someone must have one!

 

I all seriousness - these are the sort of items that get purchased by new boat owners just after they have bought (or ordered) their first boat.

 

I have met a few that are greener even than I - they had seen Carlton TV's 'Waterworld' programme and thought to themselves what a brilliant idea - I'll buy a boat with the inheritance I've just had from the property owning and recently deceased parents.

 

Having ordered their boat from the most enticing advert in one of the popular canal mags, they get fed up with waiting so they trip off to the 'chandlery with big windows' where the sales staff can rub their gruuby littles hands together as they see him or her coming from a mile off.

 

In practice the con is easy and there will be no comebacks - who will ever admit to buying a Bargee Bill medieval fighting lance . . .

[bottle]

It is bl**dy expensive for a spade with some bits cut out and a hacksaw blade attached down one side.

[ChrisPy]

It is bl**dy expensive for a spade with some bits cut out and a hacksaw blade attached down one side.

how do you know what it looks like and what it costs ?

 

......................... maybe you are you the guy Gary is looking for to 'come out' on this forum ?

[bottle]

how do you know what it looks like and what it costs ?

 

......................... maybe you are you the guy Gary is looking for to 'come out' on this forum ?

 

Now Chris,

 

I know my boat is on order but no need to cast nasturtiums on my reputation. (spelling is correct )

 

I have seen the adverts and magazine.

 

If you want one here is the web page 'Bargee bill'

 

All you had to do was ask

[ChrisPy]

Now Chris,

 

I know my boat is on order but no need to cast nasturtiums on my reputation. (spelling is correct )

 

I have seen the adverts and magazine.

 

If you want one here is the web page 'Bargee bill'

 

All you had to do was ask

I wouldn't even go looking

 

in another guise, he who just looks is often decribed as *** curious

 

come on - let's out all the 'bargee bills' on the forum. Line up and be counted.

 

oh, and ..... PS I prefer Lily's

Edited May 21, 2007 by chris polley

[KenK]

Come on then come clean!

 

Someone must have one!

 

OK I'll cough

I was given one as a present after last years Crick. My father in law thought it would be just the thing. It arrived when I was away from home. I had to send it back, first my policeman freind told me that carrying it in public would be an offense, and not just for common sense, but also because the only way into my weedhatch is to grovel under the rear deck. Semi-trad no access at the back. They were very good about it, even told me they were designing a version for boats like mine, can't wait

 

Ken

[bottle]

OK I'll cough

I was given one as a present after last years Crick. My father in law thought it would be just the thing. It arrived when I was away from home. I had to send it back, first my policeman freind told me that carrying it in public would be an offense, and not just for common sense, but also because the only way into my weedhatch is to grovel under the rear deck. Semi-trad no access at the back. They were very good about it, even told me they were designing a version for boats like mine, can't wait

 

Ken

 

 

At least you didn't keep it, so there is some hope

[carlt]

 

At least you didn't keep it, so there is some hope

Just had a look at the ad to see what I'm commenting on. First observation is that the're supplying the BW tug fleet (now there's an endorsement I wouldn't shout about).

 

The second point is, can someone explain how, in the photograph of 'bill' apparently demonstrating his modified billhook, he is reaching the prop from the front deck hatch?

Edited May 22, 2007 by carlt

[Timleech]

Just had a look at the ad to see what I'm commenting on. First observation is that the're supplying the BW tug fleet (now there's an endorsement I wouldn't shout about).

 

The second point is, can someone explain how, in the photograph of 'bill' apparently demonstrating his modified billhook, he is reaching the prop from the front deck hatch?

 

That's because the boat (Barge?) is double-ended, with a hydraulically driven prop at either end.

I had the dubious pleasure of renewing a broken drive coupling on it a while ago, one of those nightmare jobs where you have to hang upside down by your toenails and work with your arms at full stretch, yet still manage to apply full torque to the spanner or whatever.

Tim

[Hairy-Neil]

..... but also because the only way into my weedhatch is to grovel under the rear deck. ......

 

But is the tool intended for access to the blades through the weedhatch? I think you've maybe missed the whole point of the Bargee Bill.....

[bottle]

But is the tool intended for access to the blades through the weedhatch? I think you've maybe missed the whole point of the Bargee Bill.....

 

 

There are some boats that have only about 2' between the top of the weed hatch and the deck above without access through the deck, so in that situation the tool would not be of any use.

 

It would not be of any use on the cruiser sterns of the hire boat I have used.

[RupertG]

Being in the position to spend other peoples money on other peoples choices you become very aware of the lack of research that some people do and how influenced they are by the spin that all manufacturers use to market products. Just on a very quick scratch of the head these included

 

[... long, long chamber of horrors snipped...]

 

I could go on further all these products are waived around in the magazines and sales men who sell them will be all smiles and promises this weekend at Crick. But before being overcome by it all and reaching for your wallet stop and think!

 

There are even worse products around that we simply refuse to get involved with on boats, but the suppliers make a nice living out of selling them and why not? After all it's all about customer demand.

 

When this sort of thing becomes commonplace, it means the magazines aren't doing their job. We're all on teh intarwebs - why not get a proper canal gear review site going, where names are named and details detailed? In some specialist areas, magazines are stuck because their business model relies on not annoying advertisers (and readers are often complicit in this - you'll find no more vocal proponents of the benefits of snake oil than among the readership of high-end hi-fi rags). That's changing now that publishing can be extremely cheap, especially online. What's the state of the current canal magazine market? How reliable are the publications? And does anyone know the size of the canal industry in the UK, in pounds?

 

Running some ballpark figures through the mental spreadsheet with my publisher hat on (not a hat I often wear, and it doesn't fit very well), I'd think a decent review site could be made to pay for itself through advertising with little difficulty. Advertisers _can_ be kept at arm's length, and it is possible to be objective about people who are paying your bills. Nobody would get rich... but it would keep someone in diesel and gin. And it might save some anguish among those who deserve to be saved anguish, and cause some anguish where it's deserved.

 

But while I know specialist publishing (especially review-led magazines), I don't know the economics of the canal boat world... so I could be talking propwash.

 

R

[Sir Nibble]

you'll find no more vocal proponents of the benefits of snake oil than among the readership of high-end hi-fi rags)

I'll drink to that! Astonishes me that car hi-fi nuts with their hats on backwards dish out the hard earned for oxygen free speaker cable 'cos of the noise distortion oxygen molecules are alleged to cause, but it never occurs to them to seek out the quietest tyres!

[bottle]

Quiet tyres!!!!! at the volumes they have them at the noise of the tyres is the least of their worries

 

And why fill the boot with amplifiers and the back shelf with speakers the size of dinner plates.

[Dr Bradley]

It's all done to annoy me

[Tony Brooks]

When this sort of thing becomes commonplace, it means the magazines aren't doing their job. We're all on teh intarwebs - why not get a proper canal gear review site going, where names are named and details detailed? In some specialist areas, magazines are stuck because their business model relies on not annoying advertisers (and readers are often complicit in this - you'll find no more vocal proponents of the benefits of snake oil than among the readership of high-end hi-fi rags). That's changing now that publishing can be extremely cheap, especially online. What's the state of the current canal magazine market? How reliable are the publications? And does anyone know the size of the canal industry in the UK, in pounds?

 

Running some ballpark figures through the mental spreadsheet with my publisher hat on (not a hat I often wear, and it doesn't fit very well), I'd think a decent review site could be made to pay for itself through advertising with little difficulty. Advertisers _can_ be kept at arm's length, and it is possible to be objective about people who are paying your bills. Nobody would get rich... but it would keep someone in diesel and gin. And it might save some anguish among those who deserve to be saved anguish, and cause some anguish where it's deserved.

 

But while I know specialist publishing (especially review-led magazines), I don't know the economics of the canal boat world... so I could be talking propwash.

 

R

 

 

I agree about the need to try to get objective reviews, but I have grave doubts about it being viable. I am often prompted to do comparative reviews on certain types of equipment, but however much I might want to adequate testing etc is way outside the equipment I posses (and in many cases my expertise).

 

I think one would need to employ product testing laboratories, if for no other reason to get them to put their neck in the noose, and then get hold of the items under test.

 

I was asked to compare inverters - think how much a representative sample would cost - then they would have to be life tested and stress tested, probably to destruction. I have no idea how to go about objectively testing "anti-sulphation" electronics or even fuel additives.

 

It might be possible to do something a bit like Which where members report on their experiences of equipment, but I doubt one would get the volume of users on one particular item to make such comparisons valid. I am also sure that in a lot of cases the people who could give an informed report would not have bought such items in the first place.

 

What happened here in the past is a good example of the problems faced with publishing the truth.

 

I tend to the view the bigger and more glossy the add the less I trust it, and once I find them publishing misleading and sometimes down right wrong information I am even less likely to trust anything they say.

 

I fear it is left up to individuals to learn as much as they can about a subject before making major purchases. We can not rely upon Advertising Standards because I have just had to make a second complaint against a marine electrical related firm who, after a brief period of truthful adds have just gone back to lies. (no I will not name them, but i will say a pure 12 or 24 volt boat has absolutely no need of a galvanic isolator - and even if it did many people feel there is a better solution.

 

Tony Brooks

[NB Alnwick]

... but i will say a pure 12 or 24 volt boat has absolutely no need of a galvanic isolator - and even if it did many people feel there is a better solution.

 

Sounds like a good topic for debate on this forum . . .