Lowering Vetus Engine Flange Fouling Bearer.

[Guest]

Could do with a little advice folks. Have fitted a PRM box on the back of our Vetus, which means I need to lower the engine about 6mm. That in itself is easy, but around the starter motor is a rather large flange which will get very close to the engine bearer.

 

I can think of two possibilitess:

1) grind a bit off the very large flange with an angle grinder.

2) Cut a notch in the steel engine bearer (it is about 8 inches from the actual engine mount, where the bearer is reinforced underneath.)

 

Any comments ideas welcome (please see my poor drawing which is viewing engine from flywheel, photos are from above.)

Many thanks.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Guest

[WotEver]

:::walks towards camera wearing a white coat:::

 

I'm not an engineer...

 

... but I can't see that a notch cut out of the bearer would weaken it by any significant amount.

[Guest]

:::walks towards camera wearing a white coat:::

 

I'm not an engineer...

 

... but I can't see that a notch cut out of the bearer would weaken it by any significant amount.

That is what I am hoping My thoughts were to cut a notch using (say) a 25mm holesaw, which would give a rounded notch. If I recall my engineering studies (circa 1971) a round hole is less likely to start a fracture in steel?

[WotEver]

Yes. It's less likely to cause a fracture in anything which is why light aircraft canopies have little 2mm holes drilled just after the end of a crack so that when the crack reaches it the crack stops. In theory.

[valrene9600]

Bearer, leave starter well alone.

[Guest]

Bearer, leave starter well alone.

I think that makes sense. I can always get a reinforcing bit welded to the bearer if need be.

[Eeyore]

Jack the engine up a bit for clearance and take the corner off the inside of the bearer with a file. A grinder would probably need the engine out for clearance, and the hole saw would remove far too much metal. One side will be easy for right handed people, the other for left handed people, so you need to check which friend gets volunteered for the other side ?

[valrene9600]

I think that makes sense. I can always get a reinforcing bit welded to the bearer if need be.

Won't need it.

[Guest]

Thanks for input folks. Will give the file idea a go. Ideal for me as the port side looks likely to be the problem.

[DHutch]

I agree, the bearer will be hugely over spec, and as long as you do not do anything stupid like gut 3/4 of the way through, happy days.

 

A round end is better for fatigue than a nick, but at the same time given the size of most bearers and for the hours a boat runs, its unlikely to be an issue. certainly a 2-5mm rad will be fine.

I would not grind the engine in any circumstance. If the hole need was larger than could be cut alone, which I dont think it is, I would cut the hole out and then weld in a brace.

 

 

Thats my thoughts, and I am an engineer. Never trust an engineer.....

 

 

Daniel

[bizzard]

A fat round file of the bastard type would soon get the b----y job done. But don't use one like mine, ''without a handle'' or the tang could penetrate your palm.

[Eeyore]

Thanks for input folks. Will give the file idea a go. Ideal for me as the port side looks likely to be the problem.

A nice big coarse "half round" file should do the job. Try putting some gaffer tape on the flat side so that it doesn't damage the engine whilst you are working in a confined space. I say "coarse" but the reality is that this file never knew its daddy ?

Edited October 13, 2016 by Eeyore

[Guest]

Thanks peeps will report back ?

[Eeyore]

Thanks peeps will report back

Just waiting for the blog update to see how you arranged the coolant hoses for the oil cooler; across the front and along the exhaust side (Vetus parts), or along the inlet side like mine and several Vetus conversions (also original for Thorneycroft). Maybe you went for the Barrus option of putting the cooler inline with the engine on the inlet side. Exciting stuff ehh?

What was that? Get a life did someone say ?

Edited October 15, 2016 by Eeyore

[Guest]

Just waiting for the blog update to see how you arranged the coolant hoses for the oil cooler; across the front and along the exhaust side (Vetus parts), or along the inlet side like mine and several Vetus conversions (also original for Thorneycroft). Maybe you went for the Barrus option of putting the cooler inline with the engine on the inlet side. Exciting stuff ehh?

What was that? Get a life did someone say

Actually I would be very interested in this! I was sounding the job out this afternoon and stood scratching my head.

I will add a drawing of my proposal later, and how I cut a slot in the bearer with a little trick that came to me at 5am this morning!

[Guest]

I struggled like hell trying to file the bearer, not because it was a bad idea, but my back was killing me as I lay across the engine. Laziness being the mother of invention, I used a holesaw in a fashion like an end mill to make a small semicircular notch. I did this with a piece of paxolin sheet (plywood would do) and cut a 16 mm hole in the sheet at the very edge. I drilled this deliberately out of square to match the flange. This was clamped to the bearer, with a g clamp, then i used my 16mm holesaw minus centre drill and drilled the bearer at the same angle as the flange. The hole in the paxolin indexed the holesaw blade.This took a semicircular groove out of the corner and worked a treat. When I lowered the engine, the flange sat in the notch nicely (said the actress to the bishop.) It leaves similar clearance to the previous setup. The very minimum of metal was removed. The extension on the holesaw was from my battery drill set.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Guest

[cuthound]

Well done. Necessity is the mother of invention.

[Eeyore]

I struggled like hell trying to file the bearer, not because it was a bad idea, but my back was killing me as I lay across the engine. Laziness being the mother of invention, I used a holesaw in a fashion like an end mill to make a small semicircular notch. I did this with a piece of paxolin sheet (plywood would do) and cut a 16 mm hole in the sheet at the very edge. I drilled this deliberately out of square to match the flange. This was clamped to the bearer, with a g clamp, then i used my 16mm holesaw minus centre drill and drilled the bearer at the same angle as the flange. The hole in the paxolin indexed the holesaw blade.This took a semicircular groove out of the corner and worked a treat. When I lowered the engine, the flange sat in the notch nicely (said the actress to the bishop.) It leaves similar clearance to the previous setup. The very minimum of metal was removed. The extension on the holesaw was from my battery drill set.

The coolant pipe/hose arrangement in your sketch is the same as mine in as much as it's routed down the inlet side of the engine.

I have attached images of the Thornecroft T75,T95 (same engine as yours) / T105 to show how they route this pipe. This is particularly relevant to yours as you have the Thorneycroft air filter fitted; and the pipe work sits between the engine and the back of the filter. Mine and other Vetus conversions (with the original air box) have the pipework on the outside of the air box/air filter; which is not suitable for your setup.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Eeyore

[Eeyore]

I also considered modifying mine using the hose shown on the installation drawing near the bottom of this page:

http://www.westerbeke.com/Category/44BFour/5399ADA2DAF73A26740BF661#techdocs

It's useful in showing an alternative routing for the hose; but the actual moulded hose is a complete nonstarter based on price (£70 +vat delivered from USA as at 18th Sept, and the exchange rate has only got worse since then).

 

 

Edited to say that having looked again at images on your blog that the Thorneycroft routing would be better. I'm thinking that by rotating the elbow on the water pump you might be able to use ordinary black hose in a gentle arc over the top of the air filter mounting stub and back down to the heat exchanger (mounted to a bracket aft of the relay box?).

Edited October 16, 2016 by Eeyore

[valrene9600]

What I like about these type of threads is when folk come back to show the results.

Always nice to see how it all went.

So frustrating when after countless suggestions and advice everyone is left wondering.

Thanks for update.

[Guest]

Thanks Eeyore, they are most helpful. Agree Valrene, I always try and give some feedback.

Must also add that member DOR has been a big help with this project; he did the same on his Vetus some time ago.

[Guest]

I also considered modifying mine using the hose shown on the installation drawing near the bottom of this page:

http://www.westerbeke.com/Category/44BFour/5399ADA2DAF73A26740BF661#techdocs

It's useful in showing an alternative routing for the hose; but the actual moulded hose is a complete nonstarter based on price (£70 +vat delivered from USA as at 18th Sept, and the exchange rate has only got worse since then).

 

 

Edited to say that having looked again at images on your blog that the Thorneycroft routing would be better. I'm thinking that by rotating the elbow on the water pump you might be able to use ordinary black hose in a gentle arc over the top of the air filter mounting stub and back down to the heat exchanger (mounted to a bracket aft of the relay box?).

That sounds like a plan. Will definitely look at this. The gentle arc sounds good too, as it should be less restrictive than elbows? Thanks for all the info.

ps where is the best place to buy the flexible 35mm pipe? cheers.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Guest

[Eeyore]

That sounds like a plan. Will definitely look at this. The gentle arc sounds good too, as it should be less restrictive than elbows? Thanks for all the info.

ps where is the best place to buy the flexible 35mm pipe? cheers.

I was thinking that plain black hose might be ok if the curve was shallow, after all it usually comes on a roll and we spend ages trying to straighten it!!

Just need to keep the existing elbow at the pump end, and twist it to face back and up a bit. Try it with the old hose from the pump to keel tank to see what is possible.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Eeyore

[Eeyore]

Just seen the new pictures on your blog; nice looking job.

Interested to see that the best route for your hose was outside the air filter. Mine is similarly routed using a mixture of rubber and metal, which keeps breaking clips; the single length of rubber hose looks far better.

Wecome to the PRM 150 appreciation society ?

[Guest]

Just seen the new pictures on your blog; nice looking job.

Interested to see that the best route for your hose was outside the air filter. Mine is similarly routed using a mixture of rubber and metal, which keeps breaking clips; the single length of rubber hose looks far better.

Wecome to the PRM 150 appreciation society

Thank you kind sir!

Must say that member DOR gave me a lot of advice, and he plumbed his like this, so as it works well i decided to not reinvent the wheel.

I was also surprised that Midland Chandlers hose prices were very good indeed.

I am very pleased with the vast improvement in gear selection and really enjoyed doing this job Just need a Python drive now...

Edited October 22, 2016 by Guest