Two Tings

[drunkensailor]

You can get cycling permits at waterscape.com. Click the "Go Cycling" link on the main page, and fill out the form, then print and display.

 

No-one's ever asked me for one, but as it was free I don't see how it can hurt.

 

BTW, Honey, any joy finding your bike? Got my friend to look at the car boot sales, sadly no joy.

[carlt]

through its use as a canal.. not as a walking/cycling path. it should also be government maintained, in the same way as the roads.

and funded by tax. (licence money)

it would also be good to see all motorised boats or water vehicles being put onto the dvla system, give them a number plate, make them traceable and this way its easier when you want to buy and sell them.

I'm all for that! Historic vehicle exemption for my boats as well as the landrovers. Great!!

 

Though your second point implies that more boats than cars are stolen, bought and sold fraudulently? Methinks not!

Edited May 10, 2007 by carlt

[mayalld]

through its use as a canal.. not as a walking/cycling path. it should also be government maintained, in the same way as the roads.

and funded by tax. (licence money)

 

OK, fair enough.

 

However, if it is to be funded for its use as a canal, out of the money that we all pay in licences, then I expect the money to be spent only on maintaining the bits that are necessary for it's use by those who pay for it.

 

Cyclists using the towpath cause deterioration of the towpath surface, and that has to be paid for. If the cyclists won't pay for it, then they can't cycle there.

[carlt]

OK, fair enough.

 

However, if it is to be funded for its use as a canal, out of the money that we all pay in licences, then I expect the money to be spent only on maintaining the bits that are necessary for it's use by those who pay for it.

 

Cyclists using the towpath cause deterioration of the towpath surface, and that has to be paid for. If the cyclists won't pay for it, then they can't cycle there.

I agree (oh ohh!). Pavements, cycle paths and pedestrianised areas are funded by everyone including cyclists and walkers, through council tax. Just because you don't put diesel in your bike (even red is taxed btw, just at a lower rate) doesn't mean you aren't causing wear on the towpath. Why shouldn't cyclists and walkers contribute?

[CanalWalker]

you have to wonder that if bikes are so dangerous why do people walk on cycle paths, and push their children's prams along them?

 

there is no future in charging for use of towpaths, but it should not be a right to use them, it should be a privilege that can be taken taken away.

 

as for red diesel, i think i have made my feelings clear before.

[Lady Muck]

*I KNOW!* Why don't we auction permits????

 

How about SEALED BIDS???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh.

 

<shuffles off>

[mayalld]

you have to wonder that if bikes are so dangerous why do people walk on cycle paths, and push their children's prams along them?

Because half the population is of below average intelligence (yes, I know that isn't true statistically, but you know what I mean)

there is no future in charging for use of towpaths, but it should not be a right to use them, it should be a privilege that can be taken taken away.

 

For pedestrians - no there isn't. It would be impossible to run, and could harm the network. However, even pedestrians create wear, and impose a cost, so it is right that canals receive a measure of government funding.

 

For cyclists, I contend that charging would be workable. You would need a few well publicised permit evasion checks, with offenders receiving the option of paying £50 or taking it to court.

 

Anglers can pay more as well. They do very well for a pittance.

[CanalWalker]

paying for a cycle permit is completely impractical and unworkable. I bet I am the only person on the L-L with one of the current free permits and if you had to pay there wouldn't be anyone with one.

BW should be (and is) encouraging people to use the canals not discouraging people.

[carlt]

BW should be (and is) encouraging people to use the canals not discouraging people.

You're right, but it's discouraging me by overcharging, making me subsidise other users and running my waterway system incompetently.

[anhar]

"You could even argue that a boat which doesn't cruise shouldn't pay a cruising tax. A ccing boat doesn't pay a mooring tax."

Park your car and let the grass grow up around it and you still pay road tax! And as soon as white diesel comes in we will all pay road tax to cruise the canal in boats! Good man Gordon - the muppet nation just keep taking it - the French would be rioting in the streets by now!

Yes William, maybe the French would do that, but their women to a very large extend don't shave their legs and armpits.

 

Given the choice, I'd rather pay the full tax on my diesel fuel and enjoy our relatively unhirsute local ladies.

 

regards

Steve

[mayalld]

paying for a cycle permit is completely impractical and unworkable. I bet I am the only person on the L-L with one of the current free permits and if you had to pay there wouldn't be anyone with one.

BW should be (and is) encouraging people to use the canals not discouraging people.

 

1) How is it impractical or unworkable? You set a fee, put up notices to let people know that a permit is required, sell permits centrally and/or from post offices, and you set up a few anti-evasion checks. Anybody caught without a permit either pays a £50 charge, or is taken to court.

2) Cyclists are a minority of users. Discouraging all of them wouldn't reduce usage appreciably.

3) In areas where cyclists are more numerous, the presence of cyclists hurtling about discourages pedestrians, and actually reduces the overall number of users.

4) Cycling creates significant wear on the towpath surface that has to be paid for.

[honey ryder]

You can get cycling permits at waterscape.com. Click the "Go Cycling" link on the main page, and fill out the form, then print and display.

 

No-one's ever asked me for one, but as it was free I don't see how it can hurt.

 

BTW, Honey, any joy finding your bike? Got my friend to look at the car boot sales, sadly no joy.

 

No, my bike hasnt been seen since the eveing it was taken.

I keep looking wherever I see a bike or bikes i check if mine is one of them.

 

 

how about multi users of canals... such as myself, I cycle along the towpaths, i walk on them and i tie my boat up to them as well.. ok, at the side of the canal. I canoe or use a dinghy on the canal too, i even park my motorbike up next to my boat on the grass next to the tow path.

do you want me to pay for each item seperately? or does my single licence cover all the wear and tear i inflict?

 

Im a consderate cyclist, i have a bell and use it. i slow down or stop for people and their dogs.

if the towpaths were tarmac then id have my roller blades out and use them on it as well.

 

for me the canal is as public a place as pavements on the high street. it just happens that the road is made of water.

since i cant cycle on water i do it on the nearest solid surface.

its about time we stopped treating canals differently to our current transport infrastructure.

[mayalld]

how about multi users of canals... such as myself, I cycle along the towpaths, i walk on them and i tie my boat up to them as well.. ok, at the side of the canal. I canoe or use a dinghy on the canal too, i even park my motorbike up next to my boat on the grass next to the tow path.

do you want me to pay for each item seperately? or does my single licence cover all the wear and tear i inflict?

 

I believe that use of a cycle ancillary to use of a boat should be FOC.

Other use should be charged.

 

Canoe/Dinghy, you should already be paying for!

 

Motorbike, you are in breach of bye-laws bringing it onto the towpath unless you have BW permission

 

for me the canal is as public a place as pavements on the high street. it just happens that the road is made of water.

since i cant cycle on water i do it on the nearest solid surface.

its about time we stopped treating canals differently to our current transport infrastructure.

 

So, who pays for maintaining the towpath?

[carlt]

No, my bike hasnt been seen since the eveing it was taken.

I keep looking wherever I see a bike or bikes i check if mine is one of them.

how about multi users of canals... such as myself, I cycle along the towpaths, i walk on them and i tie my boat up to them as well.. ok, at the side of the canal. I canoe or use a dinghy on the canal too, i even park my motorbike up next to my boat on the grass next to the tow path.

do you want me to pay for each item seperately? or does my single licence cover all the wear and tear i inflict?

 

Im a consderate cyclist, i have a bell and use it. i slow down or stop for people and their dogs.

if the towpaths were tarmac then id have my roller blades out and use them on it as well.

 

for me the canal is as public a place as pavements on the high street. it just happens that the road is made of water.

since i cant cycle on water i do it on the nearest solid surface.

its about time we stopped treating canals differently to our current transport infrastructure.

If you haven't got a licence for your canoe or dinghy then you're breaking the law like any other licence dodger. People with a motor and butty pay twice, why should you be exempt just because your second or third boat is smaller?

 

Oh and I think road tax on a bicycle shouldn't be dismissed either.

[honey ryder]

we are allowed a tender as part of our licence.. my dinghy is a tender to my boat..its 7' long and can fit on the roof... hardly a butty is it!

the kayak was sold to make way for the dinghy because its more practical for carrying water and stuff like that in.

 

yeah and for the motorbike parked next to my boat, Bylaws shmylaws... if I could get a boat with a big enough area to put the bike on I would have... however I havent so I have to park the bike where ever I can. and at the moment its chained up to the canal pilings at night. Ive already had one bike nicked within 2 weeks of being out of the marina and on the canal system, im not about to have another one nicked without a fight.

in fact, i take it so steady when i move it on the tow path so as not to annoy anyone on their boats I actually hold cyclists up who are travelling the same way as me. Im hardly creating a dust cloud paris-dakar style am i!

 

i think alot of canal users seem to be a different species to myself, im not quite sure im on the same planet sometimes. Maybe next time i buy a boat I will go back to what I know best and get a proper boat on a river or estuary and coast hop. the canals seem to be half full of sanctimonious old trouts with a bad taste in clothes, music and decor! I saw a t-shirt on the back of someone steering a NB at the weekend that should have incurred extra fees as a penalty and told to remove it before proceeding past the next lock!

[fuzzyduck]

i think alot of canal users seem to be a different species to myself, im not quite sure im on the same planet sometimes. Maybe next time i buy a boat I will go back to what I know best and get a proper boat on a river or estuary and coast hop. the canals seem to be half full of sanctimonious old trouts with a bad taste in clothes, music and decor! I saw a t-shirt on the back of someone steering a NB at the weekend that should have incurred extra fees as a penalty and told to remove it before proceeding past the next lock!

 

Ohhh ohhh ohhh, do tell.

 

I didn't know narrowboatworld did merchandise.

[NB Willawaw]

There are just as many pillocks on the coast - the density is just less.

On a canal, you are never more than 100m away from a pillock, be it fisherman, walker, cyclist or boater.

This 'ole country of ours is just too packed with people.

 

Last week before the weather turned grotty, I took the canoe out for a paddle and passed another canoeist in a plastic rigid open canoe. He had the authentic wooden paddle, the tilley hat, etc. As I got to hailing distance, I wished him a hearty good morning and he said "are you out in your armchair ?" - pillock.

 

i think alot of canal users seem to be a different species to myself, im not quite sure im on the same planet sometimes. Maybe next time i buy a boat I will go back to what I know best and get a proper boat on a river or estuary and coast hop. the canals seem to be half full of sanctimonious old trouts with a bad taste in clothes, music and decor! I saw a t-shirt on the back of someone steering a NB at the weekend that should have incurred extra fees as a penalty and told to remove it before proceeding past the next lock!

[moonshadow]

cycling should be allowed everywhere, but only if the cyclist's promise to push 'sullen' fishermen / women into the canal

Edited May 10, 2007 by moonshadow

[mayalld]

we are allowed a tender as part of our licence.. my dinghy is a tender to my boat..its 7' long and can fit on the roof... hardly a butty is it!

the kayak was sold to make way for the dinghy because its more practical for carrying water and stuff like that in.

If you have a rivers only licence, you can indeed have a tender at no extra cost, provided that you use it only for getting to and from your boat, and remain in sight of your boat. Otherwise, your dinghy needs a licence.

 

If you have a canal and river licence, your licence doesn't allow you a tender.

yeah and for the motorbike parked next to my boat, Bylaws shmylaws... if I could get a boat with a big enough area to put the bike on I would have... however I havent so I have to park the bike where ever I can.

 

Indeed so, and the canal towpath is not such a place.

 

Why do you imagine that you can disregard rules that are inconvenient to you?

[moonshadow]

i think alot of canal users seem to be a different species to myself, im not quite sure im on the same planet sometimes. Maybe next time i buy a boat I will go back to what I know best and get a proper boat on a river or estuary and coast hop. the canals seem to be half full of sanctimonious old trouts with a bad taste in clothes, music and decor!

 

a good point, well made

 

if people needed an extra category added to their driving licences and a basic competence test then even better.

 

indeed, I've experienced some really poor boating, and some very dangerous close scrapes, at the hands of others in the last few weeks, I'd happily back some form of testing

Edited May 10, 2007 by moonshadow

[mayalld]

indeed, I've experienced some really poor boating, and some very dangerous close scrapes, at the hands of others in the last few weeks, I'd happily back some form of testing

 

As would I.

 

However, I rather suspect that the same people who ignore the requirement to licence their boats would ignore the requirement to licence the steerer.

[carlt]

we are allowed a tender as part of our licence.. my dinghy is a tender to my boat..its 7' long and can fit on the roof... hardly a butty is it!

 

If you are on the canal then the law says you need a licence. The size of boat is immaterial. You're breaking the same size law.

 

 

yeah and for the motorbike parked next to my boat, Bylaws shmylaws... if I could get a boat with a big enough area to put the bike on I would have... however I havent so I have to park the bike where ever I can. and at the moment its chained up to the canal pilings at night. Ive already had one bike nicked within 2 weeks of being out of the marina and on the canal system, im not about to have another one nicked without a fight.

in fact, i take it so steady when i move it on the tow path so as not to annoy anyone on their boats I actually hold cyclists up who are travelling the same way as me. Im hardly creating a dust cloud paris-dakar style am i!

 

So you break one law to prevent someone breaking another? Most Noble. Maybe I should drive my land rover onto the towpath so I can make sure no'one can nick it. Oh sorry I forgot, size matters to you when it comes to illegal activity.

 

i think alot of canal users seem to be a different species to myself, im not quite sure im on the same planet sometimes.

 

Hey we agree on something!

 

I assume you're still on the G.U. so you have a river and canal licence. This means you are not allowed to have a tender without a separate licence. I happen to agree with you that the law is wrong, but, until they change it, my canoe will be licensed separately, even though I am pretty sure there would be no enforcement if I chose to break the law.

 

Motorbikes shouldn't be on the towpath full stop. They are more dangerous and unstable at low speeds and you admit to obstructing cyclists, who are entitled to be there.

[mayalld]

I assume you're still on the G.U. so you have a river and canal licence. This means you are not allowed to have a tender without a separate licence. I happen to agree with you that the law is wrong, but, until they change it, my canoe will be licensed separately, even though I am pretty sure there would be no enforcement if I chose to break the law.

 

Motorbikes shouldn't be on the towpath full stop. They are more dangerous and unstable at low speeds and you admit to obstructing cyclists, who are entitled to be there.

 

It had to happen one day!

 

I'm in violent agreement with carlt

[blackrose]

Motorbikes shouldn't be on the towpath full stop. They are more dangerous and unstable at low speeds and you admit to obstructing cyclists, who are entitled to be there.

 

What sort of motorbike do you ride that's dangerous & unstable at low speeds?

 

Perhaps motorbikes shouldn't really be on the towpath but if someone is as careful and considerate as HR says then he doesn't really need a bollocking. Pedestrians obstruct cyclists too, so if they have to slow for a motorbike that's being taken on/off the towpath once or twice a day, so what? It might be better for anyone doing this to walk the motorbike rather than riding it because it shows people that you are a law abider and reassures them. Anyway, as long as you're not burning down the towpath scaring people then I can't see a problem.

[honey ryder]

plenty of people take their motorbikes onto towpaths, all are considerate, take it very slowly and give way to pedestrians and cyclists.

I was parking my bike next to the road until another boater ( with a bike) said he had had two bikes stolen from there and now kept his bike next to his boat and suggested i do the same.

SO since then where practical ive brought my bike to the boat, carefully.

 

the main difference between me and a lot of other folks is that I am honest, I dont hide the fact I have a dinghy plus another kayak on the roof, I dont hide the fact I take my motorbike down the towpath.

Hey I even run my engine before 8am and past 8pm sometimes... so shoot me.

 

come on, you are all just jealous arent you... you want a dinghy like mine dont you?