Thomas clayton tay

[Jrtm]

Thought i better open a new topic rather than get of topic on other ones.

 

Intrested in the replacement engine claytons put in her.

 

Have been told was a single pot cold start engine (anyone know what make it was)

 

If it was a bolinder 105- the 1&2 both look like a single pot as they just lengthend the parts so a 1052 sort of looks like a single pot.

 

Its was def fitted near the end of clayton days. Tay use to run with a butty but the only pics ive found of her are as a single motor (is this because the engine claytons fitted wasnt powerfull enough to pull a bitty or just coz they were winding down there boat travel)

 

Is a 1051 bolinder powerful to pull a butty?

 

Tco pearl also was the only other boat to be fitted with a non semi bolinder later on were these the same (pearl is noted for later having a 1053 fitted)

 

Intrested as intrested in all tco history (i will one day buy the name off my dad)

[TimYoung]

I think it may have been an 11hp Seffle.

 

Tim

[Jrtm]

I was wrong its only 1 pic i have seen the other you can just see the rope and the very tip of the bow.

 

11hp seffle. Diffrent im asuming it wasnt a semi seffle like in severn.

[Jrtm]

As was told it was a cold start engine. But a single cylinder (why i wondered about a 1051 bolinder as it looks like a single from the way they make the heads as unlike listers the use 1 cover for every 1-2 cylinders not every cylinder. Also the pic i have seen very late on shows a 2 maybe 3 inch exhaust coller on the oposite side to a bolinder semi.

I dont know why im asking as very intrested as to what claytons started to change later on.

 

I also noticed that some boats tay included at least in the mid 50s has a handrail in the hand rail some were thin steel some (stours was quite thick and brass) some didnt have any just normal.

[dave moore]

Hi

 

As I've said elsewhere, when Tay was sold off by Claytons, she had a cold start single pot Bolinder, the 1051. The purchaser, Tony Phillips and I were friends in those days, we boated together for several years, attending both the 67 rally in Abbey Park, Leicester and then Stanley Dock, Liverpool, in 68, where Joe and Rose Skinner on Friendship were breasted with us. We always started it manually, there may have been a starter ring on the flywheel but I don't recall a starter motor. Other motors are merely speculation. Tony is still boating and owns Trent 5, still based in Gas St where I met him all those years ago.

 

Pearl, owned by Barrie Stanton, was also moored there in those days and I would sometimes spend weekends aboard. There was no motor fitted in those days.

 

The 1051 was rated at 9hp, I think, a bit on the light side for towing a loaded boat, though we did lots of it with empties, notably Jim Marshall's butty Dunlin (also in Gas St with the motor Enterprise, ex FMC Kimberley ) on the 1968 attempt by a cohort of boaters to earn an IWA Silver Sword in a weekend. Also with us on that occasion were father and son Charlie and Horace Foster, ex working boaters. They did the night shift round the Wyrley!

 

I hope this helps.

 

Dave

Edited April 26, 2016 by dave moore

[Jrtm]

I spent a lot of time with Tay and Tony Phillips when he bought her from Claytons in the 60s. In those days there was a single pot cold start Bolinder fitted, 9hp if I recall, perhaps the 1051 model. No starter fitted, a brisk crank on the starting handle and off it went. Hope this helps, I don't know what happened subsequently other than a major rebuild of the hull at Malkins Bank in the 90s. I last saw her at Anderton Marina a few years ago. Lots of memories!

 

Dave

 

Quoted.

 

Just found out it was def a bolinder engine. John jinks told my dad it wasnt really powerfull enough.

 

The engine was removed for a rebuild but the company went bust and the engine scrapped by mistake. Dad didnt think there was another one like it used so pearls must have been bigger or a diffrent engine.

 

But dad didnt think it was a 5010 series.

 

Appart from the 1130 series what others around that time did they make?

Edited April 26, 2016 by billybobbooth

[pete harrison]

Tco pearl also was the only other boat to be fitted with a non semi bolinder later on were these the same (pearl is noted for later having a 1053 fitted)

The PEARL that was fitted with a Bolinder 1053 was not owned by Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd.. This was discussed with you on a different thread a couple of weeks ago

 

edit = see 'nb Beech' thread entry number 262 - and you replied to in entry number 264.

Edited April 26, 2016 by pete harrison

[Jrtm]

The PEARL that was fitted with a Bolinder 1053 was not owned by Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd.. This was discussed with you on a different thread a couple of weeks ago

 

edit = see 'nb Beech' thread entry number 262 - and you replied to in entry number 264.

Hi pete yes i had remembered. Was just saying the only other was pearl (bolinder reference got the pearls mixed up sorry) Only reason i mentioned it.

 

Been reading on history about bolinder seams they looks at bukh but didnt like there system and wanted direct injection then built the 1050 series

I know tim said before that tay had a 1051 fitted.

 

This might explain why the very late photos a tay are her on her own as there only rated at 11.5hp

Edited April 26, 2016 by billybobbooth

[AMModels]

Hi

 

As I've said elsewhere, when Tay was sold off by Claytons, she had a cold start single pot Bolinder, the 1051. The purchaser, Tony Phillips and I were friends in those days, we boated together for several years, attending both the 67 rally in Abbey Park, Leicester and then Stanley Dock, Liverpool, in 68, where Joe and Rose Skinner on Friendship were breasted with us. We always started it manually, there may have been a starter ring on the flywheel but I don't recall a starter motor. Other motors are merely speculation. Tony is still boating and owns Trent 5, still based in Gas St where I met him all those years ago.

 

Pearl, owned by Barrie Stanton, was also moored there in those days and I would sometimes spend weekends aboard. There was no motor fitted in those days.

 

The 1051 was rated at 9hp, I think, a bit on the light side for towing a loaded boat, though we did lots of it with empties, notably Jim Marshall's butty Dunlin (also in Gas St with the motor Enterprise, ex FMC Kimberley ) on the 1968 attempt by a cohort of boaters to earn an IWA Silver Sword in a weekend. Also with us on that occasion were father and son Charlie and Horace Foster, ex working boaters. They did the night shift round the Wyrley!

 

I hope this helps.

 

Dave

 

Did you get the silver Sword on that occasion Dave? Thats not a story I heard them tell.

[Jrtm]

I will put it down as a 1051.

 

Sorry im making a document for myself on fmc and clayton boats about there engines still in existent but in there working days so im just trying to make sure.

 

Most are fairly easy to obtain and strait forward. As all had a bolinder in except the odd few like the steamers untill swapped and tay and a few others like count (enterprise)

 

Just find it intresting to find what happened to the engines when they were swapped and where the engines are now and what is in them now.

 

Its something alot of people over look in a boat they just see a boat i see the beating heart with a boat around it.

 

Love looking at the way boats change over the years.

Edited April 26, 2016 by billybobbooth

[dave moore]

Hi Andy

 

Can't remember, it would have been Tony's not mine. We used to drink in the Crown on Broad St on Saturday lunchtimes and someone, possibly Jim Marshall, had been looking at the criteria for this new award. They reckoned that in winter it should be possible to get enough points to get one by cruising the BCN for a weekend. This was in '68 and was the forerunner, I think, to today's Challenge. Tony was a good friend to both Charlie and Horace, we were happy enough to let their expertise do the night stint, though little sleep was possible with the Bolinder a few feet away.....

 

Dave

[AMModels]

Hi Andy

 

Can't remember, it would have been Tony's not mine. We used to drink in the Crown on Broad St on Saturday lunchtimes and someone, possibly Jim Marshall, had been looking at the criteria for this new award. They reckoned that in winter it should be possible to get enough points to get one by cruising the BCN for a weekend. This was in '68 and was the forerunner, I think, to today's Challenge. Tony was a good friend to both Charlie and Horace, we were happy enough to let their expertise do the night stint, though little sleep was possible with the Bolinder a few feet away.....

 

Dave

I remember them talking about Tony a lot along with Graham and Mr Ryle?? who had Cassiopeia, saw so many faces at the funerals too. Just not in a fit state to say hello on the days. We used to have to visit the burns hospital in Brum regularly with my sister and no trip was complete without walking through that little gate onto Gas St basin so C could catch up with some of his oppos around there.

 

Was Tony a villa fan back then?

Edited April 26, 2016 by AMModels

[dave moore]

Hi Andy

 

Mr Royle had Cassiopiea in those days, Malcolm converted it at Norton Canes for him. He lived aboard in Gas St, though I don't think that he was ever a boater, rather a boat dweller. Charlie went with him ( Horace too, I think ) when we went to the Liverpool rally in 68.

 

Graham is still in Gas St, looking remarkably unchanged, as does Tony. I see both from time to time, Tony takes Trent 5 to local gatherings. No idea about his footballing leanings, I wouldn't know one end of one from the other! ?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

Edited April 27, 2016 by dave moore

[AMModels]

Hi Andy

 

Mr Royle had Cassiopiea in those days, Malcolm converted it at Norton Canes for him. He lived aboard in Gas St, though I don't think that he was ever a boater, rather a boat dweller. Charlie went with him ( Horace too, I think ) when we went to the Liverpool rally in 68.

 

Graham is still in Gas St, looking remarkably unchanged, as does Tony. I see both from time to time, Tony takes Trent 5 to local gatherings. No idea about his footballing leanings, I wouldn't know one end of one from the other!

[archie57]

Hi Andy

 

Mr Royle had Cassiopiea in those days, Malcolm converted it at Norton Canes for him. He lived aboard in Gas St, though I don't think that he was ever a boater, rather a boat dweller. Charlie went with him ( Horace too, I think ) when we went to the Liverpool rally in 68.

 

Graham is still in Gas St, looking remarkably unchanged, as does Tony. I see both from time to time, Tony takes Trent 5 to local gatherings. No idea about his footballing leanings, I wouldn't know one end of one from the other!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Hate to be pedantic, but it was actually Mr Ryle (ie no "O") who had the "Cassiopeia"! When he sold it he bought the Water Lilac (fore end of the "Antony")

A true gentleman, none of his friends called him by his first name, James, always Mr Ryle!

[dave moore]

I took that photo, I think it's on the Bridgwater en route to Liverpool. Thanks for the correction Archie, I don't think I ever saw his name written. You are spot on about his gentlemanly nature, he was always Mr to us!

 

Dave

[AMModels]

 

Hi Andy

 

Mr Royle had Cassiopiea in those days, Malcolm converted it at Norton Canes for him. He lived aboard in Gas St, though I don't think that he was ever a boater, rather a boat dweller. Charlie went with him ( Horace too, I think ) when we went to the Liverpool rally in 68.

 

Graham is still in Gas St, looking remarkably unchanged, as does Tony. I see both from time to time, Tony takes Trent 5 to local gatherings. No idea about his footballing leanings, I wouldn't know one end of one from the other!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

 

Hate to be pedantic, but it was actually Mr Ryle (ie no "O") who had the "Cassiopeia"! When he sold it he bought the Water Lilac (fore end of the "Antony")

A true gentleman, none of his friends called him by his first name, James, always Mr Ryle!

 

Hi Archie, I put a question mark by the spelling in mine as I wasnt sure it was just the pronunciation of Ryle/Royle from my grandad, it sounded like Ryle but ya never know with Black Country

Can I have permission to post it here Dave? I am unsure where it came to me from but found it in an old folder on a computer.

[dave moore]

Put it on with pleasure. Dave

[pete harrison]

I will put it down as a 1051.

 

Sorry im making a document for myself on fmc and clayton boats about there engines still in existent but in there working days so im just trying to make sure.

 

Most are fairly easy to obtain and strait forward. As all had a bolinder in except the odd few like the steamers untill swapped and tay and a few others like count (enterprise)

 

Just find it intresting to find what happened to the engines when they were swapped and where the engines are now and what is in them now.

 

Its something alot of people over look in a boat they just see a boat i see the beating heart with a boat around it.

 

Love looking at the way boats change over the years.

I wish you well with your document as this project will be both difficult and interesting - how do I know, well I have already created this document but mine includes every purpose built narrow beam 'historic' carrying motor boat ever built (as well as many tugs)

Edited April 27, 2016 by pete harrison

[archie57]

My brother would even be able to tell you the engine number of the Bolinder then in "Tay" in the early 1950s as he was an avid boat spotter and created a card index containing details of all the boats passing our house at the time and used to have frequent rides on them, probably including the "Tay" and "Hamble" as he would have then known the steerer, Bill Bellingham I believe at the time.

[junior]

The 'For Sale' board with information & phone number that has been on TAY recently has been removed.

[pete harrison]

My brother would even be able to tell you the engine number of the Bolinder then in "Tay" in the early 1950s as he was an avid boat spotter and created a card index containing details of all the boats passing our house at the time and used to have frequent rides on them, probably including the "Tay" and "Hamble" as he would have then known the steerer, Bill Bellingham I believe at the time.

I also have engine serial numbers, but not for every single engine and only a few Thomas Clayton (Oldbury) Ltd. motor boats

[Jrtm]

Shame tay is a nice boat.

 

Any info would be good as its only tco boats im really intrested in for this info.

 

My dad knows a lot of the clayton boats history and i know some but your never too young to learn

[Jrtm]

Also i know its not on tay but what boat did the national come from thats in towy i know its bolly was removed in the late 60s early 70s

[Graham Davis]

Somewhere I've got a photo of Tay, taken in about 1976, when I think it was part owned by Gary & Vera Aspey.

And distinctly hog-backed!

Edited April 28, 2016 by Graham Davis