Re-plumbing narrowboat - choice of system

[Batavia]

 

 

Those were superceded by new design fittings that don't required them 15 years ago!!!!!!!!!

Was it that long ago? I still have quite a stock of this style, which I probably purchased about 7 years ago, when I started fitting out Batavia. perhaps they were going cheap!

 

These clips were certainly required for the generation of Speedfit connectors which didn't twist - and some of the products which JG still sell (such as valves) don't have the twist function and use what is obviously the "old" method.

 

Chris G

[NMEA]

Was it that long ago? I still have quite a stock of this style, which I probably purchased about 7 years ago, when I started fitting out Batavia. perhaps they were going cheap!

 

These clips were certainly required for the generation of Speedfit connectors which didn't twist - and some of the products which JG still sell (such as valves) don't have the twist function and use what is obviously the "old" method.

 

Chris G

Indeed, valves, stop ends, and fittings with one end brassware are not twist lock.

[Flyboy]

 

 

Those were superceded by new design fittings that don't required them 15 years ago!!!!!!!!!

Not been superceded at all. Still in JG's catalogue. http://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/general-accessories/collet-cover-2/

[PGD]

Once again, thank you all for your helpful advice - I'm going to go with JG Speedfit.

[smileypete]

One thing that doesn't get mentioned, PEX has a thermal expansion of up to 1% I beleive. (1cm per metre)

 

So with long runs on hot pipes best make sure that one or both ends, or the spacing of clips in between, allow some freedom of movement.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[system 4-50]

I find that the inserts get left inside the joints when they are detached which is a nuisance. They can be extracted with pointy (what is the right term?) pliers.

[NMEA]

One thing that doesn't get mentioned, PEX has a thermal expansion of up to 1% I beleive. (1cm per metre)

 

So with long runs on hot pipes best make sure that one or both ends, or the spacing of clips in between, allow some freedom of movement.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Indeed, JG have a very good site which recommends clip spacing distances and many other useful bits of information on using their system including videos which the OP may find useful

[PGD]

Indeed, JG have a very good site which recommends clip spacing distances and many other useful bits of information on using their system including videos which the OP may find useful

I've watched these and yes, they were very helpful, as was all the info on JG's website.

One thing that doesn't get mentioned, PEX has a thermal expansion of up to 1% I beleive. (1cm per metre)

 

So with long runs on hot pipes best make sure that one or both ends, or the spacing of clips in between, allow some freedom of movement.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

The pipe run from the calorifier to the kitchen hot tap will be nearly 10m, so I'll be allowing for a couple of gentle expansion loops - and only clipping the pipes down loosely

[Neil Smith]

You can also get fittings from tool station the unscrew so you can just undo the collar and remove the pipe but don't know how good they are but a fair bit cheaper than jp.

 

Neil.

[bag 'o' bones]

I don't think there is much difference between Hep and John Guest in terms of performance other than JG is more convenient in that it does not require a tool to dismount.

 

Personally I prefer JG, but that only because I use it on a regular basis to install temporary beer dispense systems.

 

Few tips:

 

Most leaks are caused by poor installation technique

 

Buy a quality pipe cutter - you can get away with a sharp Stanley, but its difficult to cut a perfect 90 degrees - why risk it?

 

JG barrier pipe has little arrows printed along its length to aid cutting and installation

 

Use a lubricant when making a joint - there is a proper lubricant - but a quick sniff of WD40 does the same job (contrary to popular belief WD40 does not affect neoprene rubber)

 

Lubricant helps the seal 'settle' into the joint - particularly important if you using second hand fittings

 

Check for scores on the pipe before making a joint.

 

Use the secondary insert seals for even better security.

 

There are two systems of speed fit - the more common version has an integral locking ring which is a bit more bulkier than the other version which relies on a small circlip.

 

Some of the range is produced both in metric and imperial. The bodies are the same only the collet and o ring is of a different diameter.

 

 

[dianamay]

For over 40 years I`ve been involved in house construction which has involved extensive plumbing experiences. I can assure you that I was always nervous about whether once the mains was up to pressure there would be the dreaded leak even after pressure testing.. Rarely no matter how careful I did I get away with a "no leak" scenario. That is until I tried and fell in love with the Uponor. MLCP pipe system. To my mind it`s fool proof and has numerous advantages over those so far mentioned. It has no memory -so can be bent easily by hand and remains in shape. It is less susceptible to frost damage. 100% potable. Ask any plumber who uses it whether he`d go back to any other system for general use and see what their response is. I confidently put it under floors, set in concrete screed and sleep easily. It gets my vote.

[bag 'o' bones]

Never used uponor but looking at the various reviews it seems that most plumbers rate it very highly.

 

There are few problems that could put people from using it:

It requires an expensive tool and once the connections are made they cannot be reused.

Why 16mm instead of 15?

More expensive (from what I can tell).

Its not likely to be stocked in a chandlery

 

Considering boat plumbing is more likely to fail on a boat than a house you need a system that is well supported and can be repaired easily.

[George94]

Considering boat plumbing is more likely to fail on a boat than a house you need a system that is well supported and can be repaired easily.

 

Quite right. In my experience, boat plumbing seldom fails in a house.

[smileypete]

As I believe NMEA has mentioned, Tectite Sprint are very compact push fit fittings, they can be used on plastic like PEX, they don't have to be used on copper pipe.

 

[MtB]

Never used uponor but looking at the various reviews it seems that most plumbers rate it very highly.

 

There are few problems that could put people from using it:

It requires an expensive tool and once the connections are made they cannot be reused.

Why 16mm instead of 15?

 

 

Well the answer is obvious, to stop idiots trying to use copper or HEP2o etc on the fittings.

[DHutch]

For some taps I used the modern Hep2O instead, (nothing at all like any previous generation of Hep2O). Seems OK, but pricier, but needs special tools to take it apart again, (which I really must get around to buying!).

We have the original Hep20 on EmilyAnne, which has now done 25 years service, with the only issue being one frost-damaged join in the area behind the kitchen sink. Early days yet really in terms of durability of any system, but I suspect they are only getting better.

 

I have used JG speedfit on the house for alterations, because you can get in from BnQ in the evening and or cheaply from ScrewFix and have nothing really bad to say about it.

-That was using the 3m pre-cut length of 'barrier' pipe, you can also but the pipe in coils, and from more than one material type.

 

I expect either work, but would avoid cheaper brands given the amount needs and pain of changing it, and would only use copper on the visible sections and perhaps a 'gravity fed' heating system.

 

 

 

Take care how and where you run the pipes as well, with an eye to how you drain it. After the bad winter a few years ago which froze our pipes for the first time, we now have a pair of drain cocks in the rear of the swim under the deck board, and as everything runs down to the back, can get I expect 98% of the water out of the system using these drains.

 

 

 

 

Daniel

[bag 'o' bones]

 

 

Well the answer is obvious, to stop idiots trying to use copper or HEP2o etc on the fittings.

oh yeah obvious really

 

Again sort of illustrates uponor's lack of flexibility. Once fitted your stuck with it where as the other types are interchangeable.

[DHutch]

I find that the inserts get left inside the joints when they are detached which is a nuisance. They can be extracted with pointy (what is the right term?) pliers.

 

Long-nose, or needle-nose pliers!

 

JG do conventional inserts, double seal ones (presumably, for people that damage the outside face of the pipe) and metal ones, for when its going into a compression fitting.

 

As said, the plastic pipe cutters, are worth their weight in gold! (Only £10)

 

 

Daniel

[smileypete]

oh yeah obvious really

 

Again sort of illustrates uponor's lack of flexibility. Once fitted your stuck with it where as the other types are interchangeable.

 

Noticed the other day that Tectite do Al-PEX is standard sizes, sounds like Uponor want to lock you into using their fittings.

 

http://www.tectite.co.uk/En/FlexibleMetal

[PGD]

Once again, thank you everyone. I've picked up some cracking advice on here & now just have to start planning my plumbing!

[Joe the plumber]

Just for comparison, I've used traditional soldered 22mm copper pipe for the main feed and return pipework on my boat's central heating, with 15mm pipes to the valves. There's a straight run of around 30' - 35' from the boiler to the furthest radiator and when it's fully hot, the lengthwise expansion is around 8mm, measured from a mark I made when it was cold.

 

As I can't (obviously) put antifreeze in the hot and cold pipes, I'm very reluctantly leaving the white Speedfit used during its original DIY fit-out in place, even though it looks ghastly.

[bag 'o' bones]

Just for comparison, I've used traditional soldered 22mm copper pipe for the main feed and return pipework on my boat's central heating, with 15mm pipes to the valves. There's a straight run of around 30' - 35' from the boiler to the furthest radiator and when it's fully hot, the lengthwise expansion is around 8mm, measured from a mark I made when it was cold.

 

As I can't (obviously) put antifreeze in the hot and cold pipes, I'm very reluctantly leaving the white Speedfit used during its original DIY fit-out in place, even though it looks ghastly.

The old boy plumbers said the same thing about compression fittings when lead was being phased out!