Red and white stripes on the stern of a NB - why?

[Christine]

I’ve planning out an art project (doing a painting of a NB) and realised that I don't know what the red and white stripe bits round the stern of a NB are for

 

Do you have to have them? Are they red over white or white over red - do they have to be red and white or could other colours be used?

 

What is their use? I guess they are for following boats to see that the boat in front is travelling in same direction but they are not so obvious from a distance.

 

I can't see anything about them in 'Colours of the Cut' and don't know what they are called to do a search.

 

Just curious.

[carlt]

British waterways' counters were blue. I'm poring over my library now to get you the answer before the hairy one logs on (competitive? me??)

[King Learie]

I’ve planning out an art project (doing a painting of a NB) and realised that I don't know what the red and white stripe bits round the stern of a NB are for

 

Do you have to have them? Are they red over white or white over red - do they have to be red and white or could other colours be used?

 

What is their use? I guess they are for following boats to see that the boat in front is travelling in same direction but they are not so obvious from a distance.

 

I can't see anything about them in 'Colours of the Cut' and don't know what they are called to do a search.

 

Just curious.

 

Dear Christine

 

Tony Lewry or Phil Speight could answer this specific query exactly but my understanding is that they do act as warning signs for other boats and also show if the boat is loaded or not. Today most narrowboat cruisers with the 'traditional motor stern' have them painted the same just to look 'traditional' although they rarely change how deep they are in the water so you always see the red and white.

IMG]http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t181/KingLearie/BlisworthTunnelCelebrations19-06-05.jpg[/img]

 

King Learie

[King Learie]

Opps! I lost a bracket on the accompanying code for the photo illustration in my last post

 

 

This shows a breasted-up pair (motor and butty) with empty holds and thus high in the water.

 

King Learie

[John Orentas]

I’ve planning out an art project (doing a painting of a NB) and realised that I don't know what the red and white stripe bits round the stern of a NB are for

Do you have to have them? Are they red over white or white over red - do they have to be red and white or could other colours be used?

What is their use? I guess they are for following boats to see that the boat in front is travelling in same direction but they are not so obvious from a distance.

I can't see anything about them in 'Colours of the Cut' and don't know what they are called to do a search.

Just curious.

 

 

Christine.

 

Not just the hull stripy bits, the major identification detail was in the distinctive colours and patterns on the rear of the cabin, every carrying company had their own which could be recognised at very long distances, it is said that as many of the boat-people were not fully literate, (they always say that don't they) that pattern had more meaning than the name on the side of the cabin.

 

I am sure the coloured section on the rear of the hull was important too, there was very much more night time navigating than is generally realised, That splash of colour would have made the boat more visible especially in foggy conditions, they did in many areas too paint the profile of the bridges white for similar reasons.

[carlt]

In his book 'narrow boat painting', Tony Lewery just says the bands are 'perhaps for visibility to other boats'. His theory for the lack of more lavish decoration in this area is probably because it wouldn't last long because the butty 'unavoidably runs up and bumps the motor in various manoeuvres'.

[fretman]

My understanding is it was showing the boatmans surport for the crown/ Country or Queen/King

[Bones]

In his book 'narrow boat painting', Tony Lewery just says the bands are 'perhaps for visibility to other boats'. His theory for the lack of more lavish decoration in this area is probably because it wouldn't last long because the butty 'unavoidably runs up and bumps the motor in various manoeuvres'.

 

They are rather like the ones outside barbers shops... I like the idea of them being a warning of your head being cut off if you fall in.

 

I don't suppose that is ANYWHERE near the truth though... but it ought to be!

[carlt]

My understanding is it was showing the boatmans surport for the crown/ Country or Queen/King

That's mine staying black forever then.

[WJM]

I guess 100 years from now people will ask why Thames Passenger boats had an orange square on a white background!

[stuart]

I thought it was so you could tell if a boat was approaching or going in the same direction as you from a long distance...

[scoobydog]

Nominal arrangement was/is red over white. The ends of the bands are Concave, in as much as the blacking "cuts into" the colours in a curve. (Some modern boats have the colour cutting into the black.)

 

I don't know about the loaded/empty arrangement, as the counter did not go very far underwater when loaded, and could be completely out of the water when empty, unles you filled the cabin bilge with water to get some fan'old.

 

British Waterways used Yellow and Blue Bands, with the yellow in place of the white. When the cabin colours changed to Blue and Yellow (From Yellow and Blue), the counter colours stayed the same.

 

Later, BW dropped the Yellow, and painted everything (Oxford) Blue. (Then they stopped narrow boat carrying, and had that "sky", or Cambridge Blue for the maintenance boats. This was offset by white bits, so some ex carrying boats had white over light blue counters)

 

To put the cat among the pidgeons, the Northwich (Yarwoods Built) boats had THREE bands on the counter (Two sets of gaurds). These were usually White, Blue, Red, from top to bottom.

 

Best guess (as already suggested above) is White for visability. Red...who knows. I would suggest that the Crown had no input, as the individual boatman usually (unless he actually owned the boat!) had no real say about the Carrying Companies Colour Schemes! (This reminds me of the old "Salvation Army Welcome" interpretation of the practise of painting the bits between the Brass Rims on Chimneys Red! I heard that this actually statted on a pair of early Hotel Boats!)

Edited March 20, 2007 by scoobydog

[Christine]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Really helpful.

 

Just a little idea - how many folks have ever tried to draw a boat - of any type?

 

However good/bad you are at doodling, drawing makes you really think and look. I thought I knew quite a lot about NB's but when you put pencil to paper you start to question everything. How far is the visible bit of the rudder from the stern? Is the button fender really that long? How do the bows & hull join the superstructure?

 

A simple rowing boat is really the MOST tricky beast to draw - if its not right, it just looks like it won't float.

 

Thanks again

 

Chris

[King Learie]

There you go Christina

 

More information than you can shake a stick at. Its great on this site, all you have to do, is ask a seemingly innoscent question and all these blokes fall over themselves spouting all manner of answers, all of it pertient and logical- but does it help put a painting together?

 

Over to you Christina

 

King Learie

 

PS As one painter to another I would love to see it when its finished and I'm sure all these guys would too, they've earnt it!

[Christine]

I certainly will King Learie!

 

I've got 2 projects on the go at the moment - 1 is a big canvas for my portfolio work and the other is to do some little things which I will market to canal shops - greetings cards, a hanging mobile for children to construct, etc. (I have these in production at the moment)

 

There's nothing like 'being hungry' (i.e. broke) to get up in the morning and starting work pronto! I have sold some of my work at the Country Living Show in London last week so I can buy some petrol and bread and milk! I've got 3 stone of unwanted fat to live off for a while.

 

It's still better than real work and I'm loving it.

[King Learie]

Crikey! Christina

 

There are two things about drawing boats (and anything else) that you must master - 1. is perspective ( a whole ball game/science in itself)

and 2. Reference material and expert interpretation of said material (HERE!) and 3. being able to put paint on paper convincingly.

 

As you can see 2. is sorted here but 1. is learning and practice unless you have a bit of an 'eye' for it like me (got through me City n' Guilds Technical Graphics 35 years back, by winging it!) 3. - lots and lots of practice.

 

I'm not much good at it despite the trying but then again I don't like much of the canal art on offer as most of those who do it have had to compromise their talent (like me) to paint 'realistic' chocolate box pictures to suit the market which ends up being just an illustration. But there was a women from the west country, who I saw at Stoke Bruerne church hall, displaying wonderful impressionistic views of working boats in their environment with no clear detail visible. They knocked the spots off those painfully 'accurate' paintings on the cover of 'Narrowboat'.

 

Hey! How about a discussion about art ? I know what I like....

 

King Learie

 

PS Keep painting Christina, despite what gits like me spout....

[adam1uk]

There are two things about drawing boats (and anything else) that you must master - 1. is perspective ( a whole ball game/science in itself)

and 2. Reference material and expert interpretation of said material (HERE!) and 3. being able to put paint on paper convincingly.

 

Thank goodness you mastered perspective -- it must make up for never getting the hang of counting!!

[King Learie]

Thank goodness you mastered perspective -- it must make up for never getting the hang of counting!!

 

 

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquision!

 

King Learie

[David Schweizer]

I have always known the coloured bands on the stern of a motor boat as Tunnel Bands, which suggests that their purposes was to be able to pick out another boat ahead in a tunnel. However as most boats would be towing a butty only the butty steerer would be able to see the bands so that theory is rather suspect.

[Hairy-Neil]

British waterways' counters were blue. I'm poring over my library now to get you the answer before the hairy one logs on (competitive? me??)

 

Had other things to do today.......Like my father-in-law's funeral.....

 

As for the answer, who knows....

[carlt]

As for the answer, who knows....

Yes it is something I've never been asked before (nor wondered about, to be honest), trust an artist to ask.

 

Talking of art I was driving past a framing shop in Rugby on monday and spotted a drawing of Lucy being dragged along with running blocks. I'm now ploughing through the books trying to find the photo the artist has copied it from.

Edited March 21, 2007 by carlt

[MartinClark]

I guess 100 years from now people will ask why Thames Passenger boats had an orange square on a white background!

So that American airmen won't attack them?

[Bullfrog]

Just a little idea - how many folks have ever tried to draw a boat - of any type?

 

Hi Christine

 

Thought you might like to see this water-colour by my friend Erica (Ricky) Austin. She painted this for me as a birthday present, she worked from a photo. She is currently looking for commissions - anone interested should PM me for details.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

[John Orentas]

Crikey! Christina

 

There are two things about drawing boats (and anything else) that you must master - 1. is perspective ( a whole ball game/science in itself)

and 2. Reference material and expert interpretation of said material (HERE!) and 3. being able to put paint on paper convincingly.

 

As you can see 2. is sorted here but 1. is learning and practice unless you have a bit of an 'eye' for it like me (got through me City n' Guilds Technical Graphics 35 years back, by winging it!) 3. - lots and lots of practice.

 

I'm not much good at it despite the trying but then again I don't like much of the canal art on offer as most of those who do it have had to compromise their talent (like me) to paint 'realistic' chocolate box pictures to suit the market which ends up being just an illustration. But there was a women from the west country, who I saw at Stoke Bruerne church hall, displaying wonderful impressionistic views of working boats in their environment with no clear detail visible. They knocked the spots off those painfully 'accurate' paintings on the cover of 'Narrowboat'.

 

Hey! How about a discussion about art ? I know what I like....

 

King Learie

 

 

 

Well I bet that got a few people reaching for their revolvers.

 

Scoobies point about the Salvation Army reminded me, but if I remember the subtle signs on the chimney rings had the opposite meaning, the symbolism said.

 

'Salvation Army and miscellaneous Bible thumpers keep away, we don't want to know'.

 

There was a healthy suspicion of 'do-gooders' among working people in Victorian times, especially those who waved bibles and crosses under your nose and threatened eternal damnation for you and your family.

Edited March 21, 2007 by John Orentas

[David Schweizer]

[quote name='carlt' post='116983' date='Mar 21 2007, 09:12 AM'

Talking of art I was driving past a framing shop in Rugby on monday and spotted a drawing of Lucy being dragged along with running blocks. I'm now ploughing through the books trying to find the photo the artist has copied it from.

 

Hope this helps, I dont know whether either photo is the one used for the painting, as I haven't seen it.

 

Page 12 of Tom Chaplin's "A short history of the Narrow Boat" First edition published in 1967.

 

Page 22 of Tom Chaplin's "A short history of the Narrow Boat" Second edition edition published in 1974.

Edited March 21, 2007 by David Schweizer