First river boat

[yottie]

We're both retired and have given up sailing for a quiet life on the rivers.

Don't expect to spend very long periods sleeping on the boat but would welcome advice on a Relcraft 23.

many thanks

[Naughty Cal]

Sorry I can't offer any advice on the boat as it isn't a model I have come across.

 

Do you plan to stick to non tidal rivers or will you be estuary and coastal cruising as well?

 

Oh and river cruising might not be the relaxing passtime you are expecting

[howardang]

We're both retired and have given up sailing for a quiet life on the rivers.

Don't expect to spend very long periods sleeping on the boat but would welcome advice on a Relcraft 23.

many thanks

I don't know this particular craft in detail but I would suggest that diesel rather than petrol would be better on rivers because the availability of petrol can be limited. Are you looking for a potterer or a performance craft? I ask because, depending on the rivers you intend to cruise, you may find it difficult to use a boat like this to it's full potential.

 

Good luck in your search ansd why not spend a weekend at one or two of the local marinas to see what is on offer. It might also give an opportunity to chat with other like minded boaters.

 

Regards

 

Howard

[Bacchus]

They're ok little things, a lot of them are a little tired now and they had some interesting colour choices. As above, I would try and find one that had been re-engined to diesel (I think they were largely petrol egined when new), ideally to one of the little Japanese engines like a nanni or beta.

 

Will you plan to take it anywhere esturial or coastal? If not I would recommend you also look at the little vikings as perfect inland boats, or the classic freemans (again if you can find one without the ford watermota engine)

 

Or a neighbour of mine is selling this:-

 

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=433697

 

It's a lovely little thing, tough as old boots with a brilliant compact diesel volvo that just sips fuel. He has done the London Ring on it and taken it up the Thames to Oxford, and having the canoe stern it trickles along beautifully. They have bought a viking 23 to replace it to have a bit more room and a shower for longer stays .

[Murflynn]

The Relcraft has a deep-vee hull designed for speed and is therefore not the most suitable design for rivers and canals.

There are several GRP designs that would be much more at home on inland waterways.

Personally I would avoid anything with an outdrive.

 

 

Or a neighbour of mine is selling this:-

 

http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/advert.phtml?id=433697

 

It's a lovely little thing, tough as old boots with a brilliant compact diesel volvo that just sips fuel. He has done the London Ring on it and taken it up the Thames to Oxford, and having the canoe stern it trickles along beautifully. They have bought a viking 23 to replace it to have a bit more room and a shower for longer stays .

that is a lovely boat.

[Alan de Enfield]

Personally I would avoid anything with an outdrive.

.

Why?

[Naughty Cal]

Why?

My thoughts exactly.

[gazza]

Legs on non planning craft are a big compromise. I'm not keen on them either, maintenance is more costly and time consuming than a shaft.

Damage is a greater risk, be it from debris, being hit or reversing into something.

 

NC, your boat is on a leg for different reasons, the drag of shafts, p brackets and rudders can be unacceptable on fast planning boats like yours, the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages, the fact boats like yours spend less time on shallow ditches also helps make them a better prospect.

 

I have said it before, my ideal boat is a twin engined project 31/rlm/senior on shafts, luckily there are not many about - vast majority are either Perkins on Enfield legs, or adq volvos on penta legs - thus I can't be tempted to buy one

Edited August 25, 2015 by gazza

[John V]

I know NC and I have argued this a few times but apart from the favourite boat bit then ^^^

[gazza]

A mate of mine is currently whining his way round the Leicester ring with a poorly, unloved Enfield leg, it would drive me crackers!!

 

Brother is on the same trip with his Ormelite which has a hurth 50 in it, no untoward noises, and even if it did go bang it can be fixed afloat...

[Murflynn]

Why?

vulnerable to damage - last time out I saw a big Senior with twin diesels knock both of them on the sill, and lost drive in one of them altogether.

 

most O/D boats do not have a keel or skeg in front of the (or each) leg, so the leg is always vulnerable.

 

OK for Naughty Cal in a big river, tidal waters or the sea, but not good on restricted canals and rivers.

 

diesel with shaft drive, set in a substantial keel is the logical way to go, with a weed hatch built in if possible. (I built one into my yogurt pot 2 years ago and have never needed it; the previous season I had to don the wetsuit on 3 occasions to clear the prop. Sod's Law innit?)

 

 

............ oh, and our marina always seems to have a marine engineer's van pulled up next to a dismantled outdrive in the boatyard.

 

I would expect a standard shaft drive to last for at least 10 years without any attention other than possible gland packing and regular greasing.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Murflynn

[craftycarper]

Why?

. Because the rubbers need changing every year or you end up with a gearbox full of water, plus they are quite easy to break and expensive to fix, before the out drive owners club climb on there high horses, I,m only passing on what everyone told me when I was looking, plus a friend has one that has cost him more in a twelve month, than I,ve spent on mine in five years, and Rachel just remember these are boats worth a few grand and don't really justify spending a grand a year getting them sea worthy unlike yours, so please don't get offended

[John V]

Brother is on the same trip with his Ormelite which has a hurth 50 in it, no untoward noises, and even if it did go bang it can be fixed afloat...

 

What sits under his kitchen sink? (mine has a baby Vetus with a Hurth)

[Naughty Cal]

. Because the rubbers need changing every year or you end up with a gearbox full of water, plus they are quite easy to break and expensive to fix, before the out drive owners club climb on there high horses, I,m only passing on what everyone told me when I was looking, plus a friend has one that has cost him more in a twelve month, than I,ve spent on mine in five years, and Rachel just remember these are boats worth a few grand and don't really justify spending a grand a year getting them sea worthy unlike yours, so please don't get offended

Enfield drives which most of these older river boats have are a completely different beast to the VP drive we have.

 

No rubber bellows involved. They don't need pulling out every year.

vulnerable to damage - last time out I saw a big Senior with twin diesels knock both of them on the sill, and lost drive in one of them altogether.

 

most O/D boats do not have a keel or skeg in front of the (or each) leg, so the leg is always vulnerable.

 

OK for Naughty Cal in a big river, tidal waters or the sea, but not good on restricted canals and rivers.

 

diesel with shaft drive, set in a substantial keel is the logical way to go, with a weed hatch built in if possible. (I built one into my yogurt pot 2 years ago and have never needed it; the previous season I had to don the wetsuit on 3 occasions to clear the prop. Sod's Law innit?)

 

 

............ oh, and our marina always seems to have a marine engineer's van pulled up next to a dismantled outdrive in the boatyard.

 

I would expect a standard shaft drive to last for at least 10 years without any attention other than possible gland packing and regular greasing.

Ours must be magic then as it manages just fine

[craftycarper]

Enfield drives which most of these older river boats have are a completely different beast to the VP drive we have.

 

No rubber bellows involved. They don't need pulling out every year.

Ours must be magic then as it manages just fine

. It's not a personal attack, just people's personal experiences, but I knew you would,nt be able to resist, I hate to imaging what could have happened if he said blown air hearings shit as well,

[John V]

As I said in my first post, I have argued this with NC many times. I dislike using a drive system that is exposed when navigating shoal waters. Modern legs might be a big improvement on the old Enfields etc but in my book they are still vulnerable. Not that some shaft driven boats aren't as well, here are some pictures of the Aesus in a sling at Hollyhead and as you can see her props were also unprotected and I didn't like that very much either. However it wasn't my boat ......I was just crew.

 

 

 

edit ........dammit Flickr seem to have changed something I can't get the BB code up to import my photo's to here

Edited August 25, 2015 by John V

[Murflynn]

Enfield drives which most of these older river boats have are a completely different beast to the VP drive we have.

 

No rubber bellows involved. They don't need pulling out every year.

Ours must be magic then as it manages just fine

Q1: have you ever navigated your express cruiser along a typical shallow weed infested canal with frequent locks and a lower-than-ideal water level above the sills?

 

Q2: have you ever had the misfortune to hit something hard with one of your outdrive legs? If you haven't then the answer to Q1 must be 'No'.

 

Q3: if so, what was the outcome in each case?

 

note - I only draw about 500mm and my keel seems to drag along the bottom on most rivers and canals on a fairly regular basis, sometimes accompanied by nasty jolts and bumps.

[Naughty Cal]

As I said in my first post, I have argued this with NC many times. I dislike using a drive system that is exposed when navigating shoal waters. Modern legs might be a big improvement on the old Enfields etc but in my book they are still vulnerable. Not that some shaft driven boats aren't as well, here are some pictures of the Aesus in a sling at Hollyhead and as you can see her props were also unprotected and I didn't like that very much either. However it wasn't my boat ......I was just crew.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/68639646@N08/20686068690/in/dateposted-public/https://www.flickr.com/photos/68639646@N08/20864494552/in/dateposted-public/

The benefit being that in shallow waters you can lift the drive to avoid contact with the bottom.

 

Earlier this year we managed to navigate the Old River West with ease with the leg lifted up, whereas shaft drive boats were having difficulty due to lower then usual water levels.

Q1: have you ever navigated your express cruiser along a typical shallow weed infested canal with frequent locks and a lower-than-ideal water level above the sills?

 

Q2: have you ever had the misfortune to hit something hard with one of your outdrive legs? If you haven't then the answer to Q1 must be 'No'.

 

Q3: if so, what was the outcome in each case?

 

note - I only draw about 500mm and my keel seems to drag along the bottom on most rivers and canals on a fairly regular basis, sometimes accompanied by nasty jolts and bumps.

Q1: Yes

 

Q2: Yes

 

Q3: Frequent reversing to clear weed from the props, drive raised. Leg either kicks up to clear the object or the props get dinged. Neither of which is the end of the world.

 

Our hull depth varies from bugger all at the bow to 2ft at the stern with the drive down a further 1ft from the bottom of the boat in the fully lowered position. On shallow stretches yes it does nudge into debris, even when raised up to reduce the draft but usually it is little more then a nudge.

 

We have grounded the boat on Torksey Lock cill when there wasn't enough water to clear the cill and had to be flushed off. No damage sustained to the props or drive.

[FadeToScarlet]

Yeahbut (to nick a word from MtB) how many times have you had to get your props straightened out?

[gazza]

 

What sits under his kitchen sink? (mine has a baby Vetus with a Hurth)

Home marinised d722 Kubota, his is under the rear dinnete seat

[Naughty Cal]

Yeahbut (to nick a word from MtB) how many times have you had to get your props straightened out?

Non this year, which is a surprise.

 

We usually have to change them once a year, but we carry a spare set and they can be changed in half an hour with the boat in the water and the leg raised.

 

Liam can usually tig weld them at work and get them back to shape again, so cost is nothing. If not they are sent to Streamlined Props who charge £60 including delivery for one prop or £100 for the pair.

 

We have been unlucky before and gone through a couple of sets in the year but you can't predict someone chucking a fridge freezer or a van in the river. Both of these incidents were on the river not a canal.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Naughty Cal

[Murflynn]

why on earth would you need to change your props even once a year?

[gazza]

There was a comment by CC awhile back that Enfield legs need the bellows changing every year, they don't....

 

As said earlier I'm no fan, but they are not that fussy! Sadly, many have been neglected, and as the boats are at the bottom of the price bracket they are more likely to suffer a failure than a neglected shaft driven boat.

 

A VP duo prop outdrive is a different beast altogether

[Naughty Cal]

why on earth would you need to change your props even once a year?

They are aluminium, they get dings in the ends. As we have our boat out of the water each winter for a bit of a spruce up it makes sense to relaunch it with a fresh set on.

 

If you read the post you would see that they are not new each time. But refurbished.

 

That said this year we are buying a new set as Vp have brought out a new J series props which replaces our A series props and we are intrigued to find out the difference.

[gazza]

NC, have you thought about stainless props?

 

Our friends have them in their Carrara with the same engine and outdrive as you, they have been very pleased with them.