sailaway ... advice please

[Northernboater]

Draw a line and cut with a hand saw with the sheet on a couple of stands.

Mind you cutting along an 8ft sheet is very hard work, and if doing it again I would hire a generator and use my circular saw.

I sweat buckets doing it.

Maybe a good power saw and a guide rail, let me know if your ever selling your boat and I'll know what to expect when is says Professional Fithout lol

[Chewbacka]

I can't really see why you would need an angle grinder for the interior wood work, what I'm saying is don't get carried away yet, There's a lot more involved then finding a shell builder and there are few marine's around Sheffield never mind one's that let you work on railways. Maybe she could find a dry land site to complete.

I didn't use the angle grinder for wood work, but I did use it to cut some angle iron supports, to round off the hole for the wood burner flue - I did use a jig saw for the roof hole - and for cutting the flue pipe to length. I made some solar panel brackets from steel strip and used it on those as well. Handy things angle grinders.

The biggest thing it is easy to under estimate is the amount of time required, though I guess that if I were to do another it would take half the time now I know what I am doing......

[Northernboater]

I didn't use the angle grinder for wood work, but I did use it to cut some angle iron supports, to round off the hole for the wood burner flue - I did use a jig saw for the roof hole - and for cutting the flue pipe to length. I made some solar panel brackets from steel strip and used it on those as well. Handy things angle grinders.The biggest thing it is easy to under estimate is the amount of time required, though I guess that if I were to do another it would take half the time now I know what I am doing......

If she bought a sailway from Jonathan then she would of submitted a floor plan so the relevant windows would be in and a chimney hole, mushroom vents etc to where she specifies, as I say there maybe more to think about and plan before she gets carried away with the dream.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Northernboater

[Bod]

Do the RCD regulations apply to sailways, that are home finished?

 

Bod

[bottle]

Yes and no

 

The shell will come with an RCD annexe III, ie. it is built to RCD as to the stage of build. when it leaves the yard.

 

It can then be fitted out to RCD standards with relevant paperwork by the fitter/owner.

 

or

 

fitted out but not to RCD requirements and no paperwork but then cannot be legally sold for five years after completion.

 

It will need to comply with BSS or it will not be insured or licensed.

 

Building and fitting out to RCD means there is an exception to requiring a BSS certificate for the first four years and it can be legally sold in that time.

[MtB]

Do the RCD regulations apply to sailways, that are home finished?

 

Bod

 

 

Yes, but only when you come to sell it.

 

To escape them entirely you can wait five years before selling it, then there is no requirment to have an RCD at all.

 

OTOH I sold a boat with no RCD when it should have had one, told the buyer and their response was "yes but I like the boat, here's the money"...

Yes and no

 

The shell will come with an RCD annexe III, ie. it is built to RCD as to the stage of build. when it leaves the yard.

 

 

Not 'will', 'should'!

 

The shell builder of mine supplied no Annnex III certificate and blankly refused to provide one. Hence I could not RCD it.

[bottle]

Fair enough MIke and a good point.

 

I was thinking of the shell builder that is specifically mentioned in this thread.

[Northernboater]

I thought the RCD was only for a completed boat and the shell should come with the builders Decloration of Conformity with the relevant Annex signed by the engine fitter and any other work that needs to comply also signed off in order to get the BSC so the boat can get a license. A builders sailaway Decloration of Conformity is totally different then a RCD for a finished completed boat.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Northernboater

[Murflynn]

one supports the other.

without one you'll never get the other unless you employ a surveyor to review the construction, design, scantlings, etc.

 

 

fenders down when moving is just plain lazy and unseemly.

don't you just love those otherwise beautiful 2 storey gin palaces that frequent the Thames, which always travel with half a dozen white giant footballs hanging down, and the man at the controls with a silly peaked pseudo naval officer's hat?

Edited August 23, 2015 by Murflynn

[bottle]

Declaration of conformity applies in both cases, the shell builder signs to say that the shell conforms, RCD annexe III

 

The boat fitter also makes a Declaration of Conformity to say that all fittings, electrics, gas etc conform, RCD

 

Bsc has nothing whatsoever to do with a shell, only fittings, electrics, gas etc.

[ditchcrawler]

I thought the RCD was only for a completed boat and the shell should come with the builders Decloration of Conformity with the relevant Annex signed by the engine fitter and any other work that needs to comply also signed off in order to get the BSC so the boat can get a license. A builders sailaway Decloration of Conformity is totally different then a RCD for a finished completed boat.

All you need to get a BSS is a boat that complies with the BSS requirements following an inspection by a BSS inspector.

[Northernboater]

I think it all depends on what stage the sail away is completed to, yes no BSC on a shell, but if gas system is fitted then annex needs to be signed off by a Boat Safe registered fitter and does this only last for s year In order to get s license then it needs a BSC or a re examination? it is all a bit confusing dependent on what stage the sail away is at when collected from the builder, as I say it needs thoroughly researching and sometimes it's not that easy that people think on here.

[ditchcrawler]

The RCD is a self declaration by the builder. If you as the builder say it complies then it does. It could well fail its first BSS inspection when it has one just like some commercially built boats have. I think most reputable builders also supply an independent BSS with new boats now.

[Northernboater]

But as mentioned before you do not need a RCD if the boat is for your own use and not sold within 5 years, but I'm sure you need a BSC to get it licensed within those 5 years. Then again I have seen a boat that was tried to be sold self fit out that was obvious did not comply to BSC, when the BSC examiner was contacted about the issued certificate, he stated ithat it only had the Gas system on when he examined It and that was what the 4 Year BSC was issued on. The owners had fitted everything after and nothing complied, The BSC does not state to what stage the boat was examined at, so BSC examiner is left wide open. Maybe they should write on the issued Certificste to what stage the Cert was issued at. But as mentioned before you do not need a RCD if the boat is for your own use and not sold within 5 years, but I'm sure you need a BSC to get it licensed within those 5 years. Then again I have seen a boat that was tried to be sold self fit out that was obvious did not comply to BSC, when the BSC examiner was contacted about the issued certificate, he stated ithat it only had the Gas system on when he examined It and that was what the 4 Year BSC was issued on. The owners had fitted everything after and nothing complied, The BSC does not state to what stage the boat was examined at, so BSC examiner is left wide open. Maybe they should write on the issued Certificste to what stage when examining a self fit.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Northernboater

[ditchcrawler]

But as mentioned before you do not need a RCD if the boat is for your own use and not sold within 5 years, but I'm sure you need a BSC to get it licensed within those 5 years. Then again I have seen a boat that was tried to be sold self fit out that was obvious did not comply to BSC, when the BSC examiner was contacted about the issued certificate, he stated ithat it only had the Gas system on when he examined It and that was what the 4 Year BSC was issued on. The owners had fitted everything after and nothing complied, The BSC does not state to what stage the boat was examined at, so BSC examiner is left wide open. Maybe they should write on the issued Certificste to what stage when examining a self fit.

But as mentioned before you do not need a RCD if the boat is for your own use and not sold within 5 years, but I'm sure you need a BSC to get it licensed within those 5 years. Then again I have seen a boat that was tried to be sold self fit out that was obvious did not comply to BSC, when the BSC examiner was contacted about the issued certificate, he stated ithat it only had the Gas system on when he examined It and that was what the 4 Year BSC was issued on. The owners had fitted everything after and nothing complied, The BSC does not state to what stage the boat was examined at, so BSC examiner is left wide open. Maybe they should write on the issued Certificste to what stage when examining a self fit.

But as mentioned before you do not need a RCD if the boat is for your own use and not sold within 5 years, but I'm sure you need a BSC to get it licensed within those 5 years. Then again I have seen a boat that was tried to be sold self fit out that was obvious did not comply to BSC, when the BSC examiner was contacted about the issued certificate, he stated ithat it only had the Gas system on when he examined It and that was what the 4 Year BSC was issued on. The owners had fitted everything after and nothing complied, The BSC does not state to what stage the boat was examined at, so BSC examiner is left wide open. Maybe they should write on the issued Certificste to what stage when examining a self fit.

But as mentioned before you do not need a RCD if the boat is for your own use and not sold within 5 years, but I'm sure you need a BSC to get it licensed within those 5 years. Then again I have seen a boat that was tried to be sold self fit out that was obvious did not comply to BSC, when the BSC examiner was contacted about the issued certificate, he stated ithat it only had the Gas system on when he examined It and that was what the 4 Year BSC was issued on. The owners had fitted everything after and nothing complied, The BSC does not state to what stage the boat was examined at, so BSC examiner is left wide open. Maybe they should write on the issued Certificste to what stage when examining a self fit.

Your right right right right but there should be an equipment registrar (probably not the right name) saying what equipment is there.

[Northernboater]

Yeh sorry about that, just not used to mobile and pressed the button too much, I think I have edited OK, Tthere is a lot of confusion about RCD/BSC/Decloration of Conformity when it comes to self-fit so the OP needs to get it right or she could end up with an unsafe boat or a boat she would find hard to sell should she wish to.

[Northernboater]

Your right right right right but there should be an equipment registrar (probably not the right name) saying what equipment is there.

Yeh the BSC examiner is left wide open on self fits, as you could fit a complete fire the day after he has issued a Cert that does not comply but you have a 4 year Cert, maybe they need to change the Cert to be signed off to the stage it was examined to on self fits.

[Murflynn]

The RCD is a self declaration by the builder. If you as the builder say it complies then it does. It could well fail its first BSS inspection when it has one just like some commercially built boats have. I think most reputable builders also supply an independent BSS with new boats now.

that's a slight over-simplification.

the RCD declaration is not valid if the requirements have not been (1) met and (2) documented in the presribed manner.

[Chewbacka]

Yeh the BSC examiner is left wide open on self fits, as you could fit a complete fire the day after he has issued a Cert that does not comply but you have a 4 year Cert, maybe they need to change the Cert to be signed off to the stage it was examined to on self fits.

But that is true for every boat, as soon as the cert is issued there is nothing to stop you changing the engine, changing gas etc etc. the cert just says on the day it was tested it was ok, just like a car mot.

[Northernboater]

But that is true for every boat, as soon as the cert is issued there is nothing to stop you changing the engine, changing gas etc etc. the cert just says on the day it was tested it was ok, just like a car mot.

Yes, but I'm talking about self fit sailaways, yes every boat can be changed and adapted to pass a BSC, as I mentioned before let me know if you ever sell your boat, I expect you have changed yours with the grinder, lol

[Chewbacka]

Yes, but I'm talking about self fit sailaways, yes every boat can be changed and adapted to pass a BSC, as I mentioned before let me know if you ever sell your boat, I expect you have changed yours with the grinder, lol

What I meant is that the BSC examiner is not issuing a cert to say the boat will be ok for the next 4 years, just that it was ok on the day he did the check. With a self fit-out I am responsible to ensure the boat is safe and if I were to fit a stove badly after the cert was issued and someone was killed by CO poisoning then it is me that would be liable for negligence and not the BSC checker, he would simply show it was not on the appliance list and therefore not present when he checked.

 

In my case I did fit a stove after the BSC check and I had it examined by a HETAS registered engineer that gave me a cert to say it was safe and compliant. I did this for 2 reasons, firstly to reassure myself - it was ok - and secondly if the boat were destroyed by fire it removes the possibility of the insurance company saying that maybe the stove was badly installed and not paying out.

 

Love the boat too much to sell it, even to you lol

Next job for the grinder is a bit of de rusting before painting.

[Northernboater]

What I meant is that the BSC examiner is not issuing a cert to say the boat will be ok for the next 4 years, just that it was ok on the day he did the check. With a self fit-out I am responsible to ensure the boat is safe and if I were to fit a stove badly after the cert was issued and someone was killed by CO poisoning then it is me that would be liable for negligence and not the BSC checker, he would simply show it was not on the appliance list and therefore not present when he checked.

In my case I did fit a stove after the BSC check and I had it examined by a HETAS registered engineer that gave me a cert to say it was safe and compliant. I did this for 2 reasons, firstly to reassure myself - it was ok - and secondly if the boat were destroyed by fire it removes the possibility of the insurance company saying that maybe the stove was badly installed and not paying out.

Love the boat too much to sell it, even to you lol

Next job for the grinder is a bit of de rusting before painting.

How many people keep the appliance & recomendation sheet, after all once you have a pass that's all that counts and now you don't even get a Cert as it's all electronic to CaRT, as you state anyone can fit things the day after that do not comply, Wow please, please let me know when you sell,lol

 

This is going so off topic, but I hope it gives the OP some idea of the complexity of doing it right and not to cut corners on a self-fit.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Northernboater

[MtB]

Yeh the BSC examiner is left wide open on self fits, as you could fit a complete fire the day after he has issued a Cert that does not comply but you have a 4 year Cert, maybe they need to change the Cert to be signed off to the stage it was examined to on self fits.

 

 

This is plain wrong. As is much of the other stuff you've posted in this thread.

 

A BSS inspector complies a shedule of appliances as part of his inspection and the boat owner undertakes when licencing the boat not to change the spec of the baot without getting a new BSS. So the BSS examiner is not left 'wide open' by any means.

[Northernboater]

This is plain wrong. As is much of the other stuff you've posted in this thread.

 

A BSS inspector complies a shedule of appliances as part of his inspection and the boat owner undertakes when licencing the boat not to change the spec of the baot without getting a new BSS. So the BSS examiner is not left 'wide open' by any means.

How many people keep the appliance record once the boat has passed and is it a legal requirement to keep? And tell me does the owner sign anything to declare he will not change the boat and does it state on the license application that if you have altered the boat and not got a new BSC it invalidates the current BSC registered with CaRT?

 

Come on then give us the correct legal requirement with regards to Decoration of Conformity, RCD, RYA No, fom buying a saiwaway to self fit completion, let us know what documentation it needs at the various stages, as you stated you sold a new boat within 5 years with no paperwork, I bet it never complied.lol

Edited August 24, 2015 by Northernboater

[MtB]

How many people keep the appliance record once the boat has passed and is it a legal requirement to keep?

 

 

The BSS inspector keeps his copy so it doesn't matter if you lose yours.

 

 

 

And tell me does the owner sign anything to declare he will not change the boat and does it state on the license application that if you have altered the boat and not got a new BSC it invalidates the current BSC registered with CaRT?

 

 

Yes to both of these questions.

 

 

 

Come on then give us the correct legal requirement with regards to Decoration of Conformity, RCD, RYA No, fom buying a saiwaway to self fit completion, let us know what documentation it needs at the various stages,

 

 

I don't know. It's a different subject from the BSS.

 

I researched it a decade ago but it's so complex I've forgotten the details.

 

 

 

as you stated you sold a new boat within 5 years with no paperwork, I bet it never complied.lol

 

 

No I didn't. I bought a boat that should have had a RCD, then failed to RCD it myself as the hull builder wouldn't issue the Annex III so no, it never complied.

 

It was over five years old when I sold it, but as I bought it less than five years old, the seller I bought it from was the one contravening the regs.