CRT Licence / Marina Mooring?

[MtB]

The connect fee argument is not important. And, imagine I've flogged my boat, I have no boat to moor.

 

CRT have no legal right to a licence fee from boats inside a marina.

 

 

Really?

 

I've not noticed you mention this before....

[Higgs]

 

 

Really?

 

I've not noticed you mention this before....

 

 

Well then, why don't you seem to understand it...

[lulu fish]

The connect fee argument is not important. And, imagine I've flogged my boat, I have no boat to moor.

 

CRT have no legal right to a licence fee from boats inside a marina.

 

Going back to my original question..

 

If my boat spends a period of time un-licenced in a marina, lets say 6 moths for example. When I come to re-licence it, will CRT try to charge me a late fee or back fees for the 6 months.

 

If they do, am I within my rights to refuse to pay the back fees and just purchase a new licence . (assuming I have BSS, insurance and mooring)

[Paul C]

The connect fee argument is not important. And, imagine I've flogged my boat, I have no boat to moor.

 

CRT have no legal right to a licence fee from boats inside a marina.

I don't think anyone is disputing this. The requirement to purchase a licence is due to the mooring agreement terms and conditions.

 

Going back to my original question..

 

If my boat spends a period of time un-licenced in a marina, lets say 6 moths for example. When I come to re-licence it, will CRT try to charge me a late fee or back fees for the 6 months.

 

If they do, am I within my rights to refuse to pay the back fees and just purchase a new licence . (assuming I have BSS, insurance and mooring)

Don't know. If they do.....yes.

[MtB]

 

Going back to my original question..

 

If my boat spends a period of time un-licenced in a marina, lets say 6 moths for example. When I come to re-licence it, will CRT try to charge me a late fee or back fees for the 6 months.

 

 

Hopefully yes.

 

 

 

 

If they do, am I within my rights to refuse to pay the back fees and just purchase a new licence . (assuming I have BSS, insurance and mooring)

 

 

Unfortunately yes. But most of us hope you won't get away with shafting CRT.

 

You are Paul Lilley and I claim my five pounds!

[NilesMI]

 

Going back to my original question..

 

If my boat spends a period of time un-licenced in a marina, lets say 6 moths for example. When I come to re-licence it, will CRT try to charge me a late fee or back fees for the 6 months.

 

If they do, am I within my rights to refuse to pay the back fees and just purchase a new licence . (assuming I have BSS, insurance and mooring)

 

By "un-licenced", I'm assuming you mean a marina which does not have an NAA?

 

If so, my understanding is that when you take your boat there, you inform CRT that you are removing your boat from their waterway. At that point you would claim back any remaining part of your licence.

 

Then, when you return your boat to CRT's waterway, 6 months later, you would need to apply for a new CRT licence, commencing on the date you return. There is no late fee or need to pay for a licence for the period your boat has been absent.

 

 

But you also asked, earlier, about mooring your boat at an NAA marina but failing to renew your CRT licence while moored there.

 

In that situation, my understanding is that to comply with the marina contract, you would have to pay any late fee or back dating so that you have actually paid for a continuous licence for the time your boat was moored there.

[NigelMoore]

 

If my boat spends a period of time un-licenced in a marina, lets say 6 moths for example. When I come to re-licence it, will CRT try to charge me a late fee or back fees for the 6 months.

 

BW once wanted to charge me a £150 late payment fee for an annual licence I did not ask for, for a craft that had not been on their waterways for around 10 months, and which I did not want to put back in for the next year either.

[lulu fish]

 

 

Hopefully yes.

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately yes. But most of us hope you won't get away with shafting CRT.

 

You are Paul Lilley and I claim my five pounds!

 

 

Not sure how refusing to pay something I have no legal obligation to pay counts as shafting CRT, but thanks for the answer and also thanks to Paul for his.

 

It would be nice to here from someone that has had an un-licenced boat in a marina to see if CRT did make an effort to charge them late or back fees

 

By "un-licenced", I'm assuming you mean a marina which does not have an NAA?

 

 

No, of course not.

 

I am and always have been talking about keeping an un-licenced boat in a marina with an NAA in breach of the marina terms and conditions.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Not sure how refusing to pay something I have no legal obligation to pay counts as shafting CRT, but thanks for the answer and also thanks to Paul for his.

 

It would be nice to here from someone that has had an un-licenced boat in a marina to see if CRT did make an effort to charge them late or back fees

No, of course not.

 

I am and always have been talking about keeping an un-licenced boat in a marina with an NAA in breach of the marina terms and conditions.

 

I had a boats in several marinas and did not pay for a licence, the marina did not ask for / require boats moored there to have a licence.

 

Only last year I took a mooring in a C&RT owned marina, they requested that I have a C&RT licence and a BSS, I pointed out to them I needed neither, which they accepted without argument..

Edited December 30, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

 

 

Not sure how refusing to pay something I have no legal obligation to pay counts as shafting CRT, but thanks for the answer and also thanks to Paul for his.

 

It would be nice to here from someone that has had an un-licenced boat in a marina to see if CRT did make an effort to charge them late or back fees

No, of course not.

 

I am and always have been talking about keeping an un-licenced boat in a marina with an NAA in breach of the marina terms and conditions.

 

 

Nick Brown?

[lulu fish]

 

 

Only last year I took a mooring in a C&RT owned marina, they requested that I have a C&RT licence and a BSS, I pointed out to them I needed neither, which they accepted without argument..

 

Thanks

 

 

Nick Brown?

 

 

Harambe?

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Nick Brown?

 

Don't think so - not sufficiently articulate.

 

I still go with 'Pinky'.

[Higgs]

I don't think anyone is disputing this. The requirement to purchase a licence is due to the mooring agreement terms and conditions.

 

 

 

 

Given that CRT is not legally entitled to a licence payment from boats in a marina, you've agreed, CRT is therefore not entitled to the money.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Thanks

 

 

One was on a Tidal river where C&RT have no authority (except as marina owner) and it was a ocean-going boat that would not pass a BSS anyway, another example was in a Private marina on a non-tidal River where C&RT have no responsibility outside of the MNC.

[lulu fish]

 

One was on a Tidal river where C&RT have no authority (except as marina owner) and it was a ocean-going boat that would not pass a BSS anyway, another example was in a Private marina on a non-tidal River where C&RT have no responsibility outside of the MNC.

Not too useful in this discussion then. Oh well.

Edited December 30, 2016 by lulu fish

[MtB]

 

Don't think so - not sufficiently articulate.

 

I still go with 'Pinky'.

 

 

Disagree now, Pinky tends to descend into personal abuse when challenged. Lulu seems content to persist with ludicrous arguments.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Disagree now, Pinky tends to descend into personal abuse when challenged. Lulu seems content to persist with ludicrous arguments.

 

There is time yet.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I pay over £1000 per year to my local council for services which I could easily do without (at the moment). Shall I suggest that I just pay them as and when I need these services?

[Higgs]

I pay over £1000 per year to my local council for services which I could easily do without (at the moment). Shall I suggest that I just pay them as and when I need these services?

 

 

Should you just suggest paying only when you need to use the service? Have you written to your MP about these thoughts that you're having?

[Alan de Enfield]

I pay over £1000 per year to my local council for services which I could easily do without (at the moment). Shall I suggest that I just pay them as and when I need these services?

 

Good example Mac - we are similar :

 

We live 2 miles from our nearest neighbour and about 3 miles from the nearest village. our Council Tax (£265 per month) apparently pays for Street lighting (non within 3 miles), Footpaths (non within 3 miles), Schools (no children at school for the last 20 years), Libraries (they closed the local library and it is now kept open by volunteers), Police ( not seen a Police man/car within 'miles' of our house')

 

Maybe I should ask for a rebate.

[lulu fish]

 

 

Disagree now, Pinky tends to descend into personal abuse when challenged. Lulu seems content to persist with ludicrous arguments.

There's nothing ludicrous about not paying something I have no legal obligation to pay. You may have money to throw away, I do not.

 

 

I pay over £1000 per year to my local council for services which I could easily do without (at the moment). Shall I suggest that I just pay them as and when I need these services?

If it was your neighbouring council charging you, your analogy would be more fitting.

[Paul C]

 

 

Given that CRT is not legally entitled to a licence payment from boats in a marina, you've agreed, CRT is therefore not entitled to the money.

 

 

That's a clever way of twisting words but its taken what I said, out of context. They are not legally entitled to the money, but that doesn't mean you are entitled to not have a licence. There's a 3 way relationship: boater/moorer ---- marina operator ---- CRT.

 

By not licensing the boat, you've broken the legal agreement (the contract) with the marina operator. And the marina operator has broken their contract with CRT. Therefore each is entitled to take action against that breach of contract. You don't need to worry about the relationship between the marina operator and CRT.

 

BUT you do need to worry about the relationship between yourself (moorer) and the marina operator. They could end the agreement, or not renew it at renewal time. You can't force them to take you in. I'll ask it again "do you need the marina more than the marina operator needs you?" Marina operators are allergic to troublemakers and piss-takers.

 

If you really think you're in the right, then you need to try and either negotiate that term out of your own agreement with the marina operator; or mount some kind of legal challenge to claim its an unfair term in the contract. Pragmatically, if you went down the legal action route you'll have the support of a small handful of boaters and expose yourself to the massive risk of being blacklisted from a great number of marinas. Is it worth that kind of risk? Its probably a better idea to try and come up with some kind of deal with the marina operator "under the radar" where they delete the term requiring you to have a licence. Its perfectly possible - others have done it - I have done it - you too could do it. But you'd need to be subtle and skilled to do so.

[Alan de Enfield]

There's nothing ludicrous about not paying something I have no legal obligation to pay. You may have money to throw away, I do not.

 

 

 

Despite your protests you DO have an obligation to pay.

When you took your mooring, you read the T&Cs from the mooring provider where they listed the conditions of being 'granted' a mooring, some of those were :

The boat shall have a BSSC

The boat shall have insurance

The boat shall have a C&RT licence

 

When you accepted your mooring you accepted those T&Cs

[NilesMI]

The first year I had my boat, my email address wasn't registered with CRT so I didn't get an email reminder to renew the licence.

 

It was moored at Sawley marina at the time, which does require boats to have a (rivers only) CRT licence. My boat was spotted by a CRT boat logger and I got a letter from CRT that my boat was unlicensed. I renewed the licence and had to pay the late fee.

 

I actually renewed the canal and river licence as I was planning to cruise all over the place. I have no idea what would have happened if I had not renewed the license but left the boat moored in the marina. In principle, the marina is not a CRT waterway, so CRT could not lawfully take enforcement action themselves. I guess that strictly it would be up to the marina to take action to remove an unlicensed boat from their marina.

 

The point is that CRT boat loggers do check marinas which have an NAA for unlicensed boats and will write to inform you if you have no licence. My impression us that CRT would indeed take enforcement action against you if you refused to renew the licence whether or not they have the legal authority to do so. You could always start another thread on here to complain if/when they do that.

Edited December 30, 2016 by NilesMI

[Mac of Cygnet]

Should you just suggest paying only when you need to use the service? Have you written to your MP about these thoughts that you're having?

No, because I recognise that the money raised, although I may on occasion disagree about how it is spent, is for the greater good of the community. And also because by living here I accept the system

If it was your neighbouring council charging you, your analogy would be more fitting.

Totally irrelevant.