I am beginning to be concerned

[DeanS]

Dean have you actually contacted CRT- is it sorted?

 

1. I received the letter.

2. I emailed them back immediately and told them they must have something wrong and could I have the logs.

3. They emailed me the logs within 24hrs.

4. I explained by email that they hadn't logged me during the "gap" at 2 other locations.

5. I have no idea if my slate is wiped clean, or I will forever have a mark on my boat name for future reference. I can't see "their end"

6. I'm off to France for a week and need to overstay for real...in the exact same place for 3 days over the allowed 14.

7. I've now asked for permission to remain where I am for an additional 3 days, as the data logger will walk the same stretch and I'll get another letter otherwise.

8. I don't know what 2 letters would mean.

9. I can't move my boat, because I'll need to fill up with water before making the final trip back to the marina (when I'm back from France), and all the water points from here down, aren't working.

 

that's the whole story.

[Murflynn]

so in reality you are overstaying on what you believe to be 14 day moorings, just for your own convenience.

 

presumably the trip to France was arranged before you embarked on your current 'cruise' so it may seem like bad planning.

 

why can't you fill with water before you go to France, and move your boat to another 'place' before you leave?

[DeanS]

so in reality you are overstaying on what you believe to be 14 day moorings, just for your own convenience.

 

presumably the trip to France was arranged before you embarked on your current 'cruise' so it may seem like bad planning.

 

why can't you fill with water before you go to France, and move your boat to another 'place' before you leave?

 

If I fill the boat with water now and move it.....the boat sitter will use half the water by the time we're back, leaving not enough to get all the way to Manchester at a gentle pace (as the 2 water points along that route no longer work). Bad planning on my behalf, which is why I've asked if I can overstay by 3 days. I could move, but I'd have to turn around again to go get water.....it all get's silly. Asking for the extra 3 days seems the easiest. It's just Murphy's law that where I'm now rightfully asking for permission to overstay, is where they wrongly logged me in the first place. It all becomes silly

[cotswoldsman]

OK I have done the accounts. Due to a few double pledges being counted ie on here and Facebook etc the total is £1,845 so I guess we are there. Thank you everyone. We will now wait and see if Nigel manages to work his way through the process to get the documents. When that happens I will ask people to turn there pledges into donations.

I have to say I am amazed at peoples generosity that figure was raised in 24 hours!!!!!

[Dave Clinton]

so in reality you are overstaying on what you believe to be 14 day moorings, just for your own convenience.

I think you should read the 1995 Act **********.

Edited August 15, 2015 by DeanS
removed offensive content

[bassplayer]

 

 

not at all...I just thought it was of public interest...an example of the logging system, and how it's not working right. I shouldn't of used the word "despair.."....too emotive...."be concerned" is probably better

I should have put a smiley really. I just thought that as you also said you were chilled in reality I wondered why you also say you are concerned. This forum might be a virtual world but most of the posts reflect real feelings.

 

If it's any consolation I do despair of the logging system!

[NoFixedAbode]

 

 

Thank you!

 

We're 25% of the way there now...

I'm a bit late reading this but I will also stand for £100.

 

If you are serious Nigel P.M. me the information where to send it.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[cotswoldsman]

I'm a bit late reading this but I will also stand for £100.

 

If you are serious Nigel P.M. me the information where to send it.

 

Cheers, Mark.

PM sent on behalf of Nigel. Thank you we are now just £65 short of target

Now at £1.945

Can't keep up now at £2,000 wow amazing

[Murflynn]

I think you should read the 1995 Act before spitting your usual bile.

I think you need to carefully read exactly what I wrote before becoming pugnacious.

[Jess--]

It seems to me that the CRT logging system needs an additional 2 entries from the loggers.

 

1. starting to log kilometre abc123

* Log boat 1

* Log boat 2

* Log boat 3

* Log boat 4

* Log boat 5

* Log boat 6

* Log boat 7

2. finished logging kilometre abc123, any boats previously logged in abc123 and not logged this time are now in "Unknown location"

Surely this small change would cure the problems found with the current logging system.

[gaggle]

Dean have you actually contacted CRT- is it sorted?

 

Why not read the thread .

[magpie patrick]

 

It seems to me that the CRT logging system needs an additional 2 entries from the loggers.

 

1. starting to log kilometre abc123

* Log boat 1

* Log boat 2

* Log boat 3

* Log boat 4

* Log boat 5

* Log boat 6

* Log boat 7

2. finished logging kilometre abc123, any boats previously logged in abc123 and not logged this time are now in "Unknown location"

Surely this small change would cure the problems found with the current logging system.

 

 

Indeed - it isn't difficult for the system to know a boat was not present - the system doesn't have to know where it was instead

[Woodstock]

Why not read the thread .

To be honest I have read most of it but with 27 pages and a lot of convolutions I wasn't clear so asked for clarification and if it had been resolved. As a boater with a home mooring who has limited boating time and travels the same stretches of canal I am interested in the outcome. Some of us have work and family commitments which mean we don't have all the time to read and digest every published word. Is that a problem for you?

Edited August 14, 2015 by Woodstock

[churchward]

 

1. I received the letter.

2. I emailed them back immediately and told them they must have something wrong and could I have the logs.

3. They emailed me the logs within 24hrs.

4. I explained by email that they hadn't logged me during the "gap" at 2 other locations.

5. I have no idea if my slate is wiped clean, or I will forever have a mark on my boat name for future reference. I can't see "their end"

6. I'm off to France for a week and need to overstay for real...in the exact same place for 3 days over the allowed 14.

7. I've now asked for permission to remain where I am for an additional 3 days, as the data logger will walk the same stretch and I'll get another letter otherwise.

8. I don't know what 2 letters would mean.

9. I can't move my boat, because I'll need to fill up with water before making the final trip back to the marina (when I'm back from France), and all the water points from here down, aren't working.

 

that's the whole story.

You are making it much harder to retain sympathy with your situation. Now you are actually over staying and it isn't going to help with being on CRTs radar either.

[Jess--]

 

Indeed - it isn't difficult for the system to know a boat was not present - the system doesn't have to know where it was instead

as a coder if I built a system that made assumptions like crt's system I would lose contracts almost instantly.

 

having meddled a bit with location aware systems on smartphones etc and having good knowledge of database systems I could probably build something up that would update as a logger was walking giving them a display of boats currently recorded as being within x (say 10) metres of their current position with a button to press only if the boat is still there and a separate function to record a new boat in that location. any boat not having the button pressed would then be recorded as being in an unknown location.

 

the only places I can see where this system would not work well would be places where 2 sections of the canal run in close proximity (like sutton stop) or areas alongside marinas

[Dave Clinton]

...or the signal is a bit iffy, like, ummm, rural areas? Know any canals that fit that description?

 

Perhaps you'd like to modify your model to produce the offline version.

[Ricco1]

I suppose the system could be worked to a large extent. I assume that CRT send out their loggers every 2 weeks, on the same day. Once the pattern is worked out for an area boaters then have 13 days of 'freedom' to moor where they like. All they need to do is move to a different 'place' for a day, be spotted there, then move back to their favourite spot. 2 weeks on move to the next 'place' beyond the previous 'place', again for one day. And so it could go on.

[magpie patrick]

I suppose the system could be worked to a large extent. I assume that CRT send out their loggers every 2 weeks, on the same day. Once the pattern is worked out for an area boaters then have 13 days of 'freedom' to moor where they like. All they need to do is move to a different 'place' for a day, be spotted there, then move back to their favourite spot. 2 weeks on move to the next 'place' beyond the previous 'place', again for one day. And so it could go on.

 

People would still have to "work" the system though, they couldn't just sit around as if cemented to the towpath. Most people, once required to move at all, will move in a sensible pattern.

 

To make monitoring effective though it needs to be more than every two weeks. Going back to parking, it is common for a warden to check every half hour to enforce a one hour restriction for example.

[Jess--]

I suppose the system could be worked to a large extent. I assume that CRT send out their loggers every 2 weeks, on the same day. Once the pattern is worked out for an area boaters then have 13 days of 'freedom' to moor where they like. All they need to do is move to a different 'place' for a day, be spotted there, then move back to their favourite spot. 2 weeks on move to the next 'place' beyond the previous 'place', again for one day. And so it could go on.

assumptions are dangerous things.

 

just because a logger has previously done his route every other Wednesday doesn't mean that he (or another logger) isn't going to do it on a monday in the middle, as long as the gap between them is less than 14 days then it keeps their data valid

[magpie patrick]

...or the signal is a bit iffy, like, ummm, rural areas? Know any canals that fit that description?

 

Perhaps you'd like to modify your model to produce the offline version.

 

What's with the on-line bit? I was using Micromatch for car number plates when we had to note numbers down on paper and feed them into the computer back at the office. Surely the loggers go back home/to the office and download the data there?

[churchward]

...or the signal is a bit iffy, like, ummm, rural areas? Know any canals that fit that description?

 

Perhaps you'd like to modify your model to produce the offline version.

Except if they are using a GPS then being rural doesn't make any real difference as the signal is coming from a space satellite and is not such an issue as mobile phone coverage.

[Tony Dunkley]

 

It seems to me that the CRT logging system needs an additional 2 entries from the loggers.

 

1. starting to log kilometre abc123

* Log boat 1

* Log boat 2

* Log boat 3

* Log boat 4

* Log boat 5

* Log boat 6

* Log boat 7

2. finished logging kilometre abc123, any boats previously logged in abc123 and not logged this time are now in "Unknown location"

Surely this small change would cure the problems found with the current logging system.

 

 

A change that would cure a great many problems would be for C&RT to start behaving like a Navigation Authority instead of playing at being some sort of Mickey Mouse waterway policing organization whose main objective appears to be to harass, intimidate and ultimately drive away as many paying customers as they possibly can.

The proliferation of ''Enforcement'' managers, supervisors, officers and data loggers, there to do little more than make the use of about 2000 miles of waterways as stressful and unattractive as they can, is in reality, laughable and rather pathetic.

[NilesMI]

It seems to me that the CRT logging system needs an additional 2 entries from the loggers.

 

Surely this small change would cure the problems found with the current logging system.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

How do we know that the system is ignoring such "boat not present" events? It is, as you suggest, such a simple and obvious test to apply.

 

It could equally be that the if the interval of logging at a particular place is more than 14 days, a boat can be sighted there on consecutive survey dates and will therefore be suspected of overstaying even though it has not been there continuously between sightings.

[bassplayer]

as a coder if I built a system that made assumptions like crt's system I would lose contracts almost instantly.

 

having meddled a bit with location aware systems on smartphones etc and having good knowledge of database systems I could probably build something up that would update as a logger was walking giving them a display of boats currently recorded as being within x (say 10) metres of their current position with a button to press only if the boat is still there and a separate function to record a new boat in that location. any boat not having the button pressed would then be recorded as being in an unknown location.

 

the only places I can see where this system would not work well would be places where 2 sections of the canal run in close proximity (like sutton stop) or areas alongside marinas

...not withstanding that I think the whole tracking of boat thing is a waste of time and money in the first place. It's just causing more wear and tear on the system by unnecessary movements fuelled by the fear it causes.

 

As someone who was ex IT, I can see the fascination though. Are you planning to run your tool past CRT at some point Jess or just leave it as a tool boaters can use if they want to. It would be good if you can store photos with the GPS and time stamp and sync that in the database with the locations.

[Jess--]

Except if they are using a GPS then being rural doesn't make any real difference as the signal is coming from a space satellite and is not such an issue as mobile phone coverage.

for the system to be able to update the loggers screen it would need access back to the main database, however there are data sims available (at a cost) which will use any available network and are not tied to a particular one, using one of these would vastly improve the chances of getting a data signal.

 

 

A change that would cure a great many problems would be for C&RT to start behaving like a Navigation Authority instead of playing at being some sort of Mickey Mouse waterway policing organization whose main objective appears to be to harass, intimidate and ultimately drive away as many paying customers as they possibly can.

The proliferation of ''Enforcement'' managers, supervisors, officers and data loggers, there to do little more than make the use of about 2000 miles of waterways as stressful and unattractive as they can, is in reality, laughable and rather pathetic.

We often seem to disagree Tony. unfortunately by the pair of us (presumably) having a license we have agreed to certain conditions attached to that license, the main part of the problem seems to be CRT's system for checking that boaters are staying within the conditions agreed. Their current system is clearly producing too many false positives which is leading to what you describe as harrassment and intimidation because of their trust in a flawed logging system.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Jess--