Considering Living On A Boat

[bargemast]

I would agree apart from the owners comment

"We have cruised extensively around this part of the French canal network enjoying the beautiful river and canal side villages and stunning countryside of South West France."

 

Yes, you right and I did read that too, although what I understood is that they mainly live on their boat while their French Holiday home is rented out (successfully) during the summer months, and you have to ask them to explane what they call extensively.

 

They may have done in these years all of the canals in the South of France and call that extensively, while the total trip didn't add on that many hours, also there are many moorings with water and electricity at most popular places there, so they probably didn't have to run the engine to keep the batteries charged.

 

But ......I'm only guessing, as I don't know them or their boat personally.

 

Peter.

[bargemast]

 

 

You can't validly use square footage to price a boat.

 

All the expensive things (bow, stern, engine, heating system, water system, electrical system, kitchen, bathroom) cost much the same and have to be there in any length of boat. A longer boat is mostly the cost of the extra steel.

 

So the shorter the boat, the higher the square footage price climbs even from the same builder.

 

I agree with what you wrote Mike, and it's not just Time2Change that makes this slightly wrong conclusion about boat prices based on lenght, you'll often hear that kind of thinking, forgetting that it's only some more weight of mostly straight and fairly cheap steel that's needed for more lenght.

 

Peter.

[George94]

 

I agree with what you wrote Mike, and it's not just Time2Change that makes this slightly wrong conclusion about boat prices based on lenght, you'll often hear that kind of thinking, forgetting that it's only some more weight of mostly straight and fairly cheap steel that's needed for more lenght.

 

Peter.

 

Well, a longer boat may well have a larger engine, more batteries, more electrics, bigger tanks, more piping, etc., etc.. It's rather more than just some cheap steel.

 

Nonetheless, it's true that prices are not linear.

 

I wonder if the boat is on its second engine.

[bargemast]

 

Well, a longer boat may well have a larger engine, more batteries, more electrics, bigger tanks, more piping, etc., etc.. It's rather more than just some cheap steel.

 

Nonetheless, it's true that prices are not linear.

 

I wonder if the boat is on its second engine.

 

A bigger boat needs more insulation, panneling, flooring and paint too, which is all still (imo) cheap in relation to the lenght difference + the labour for the extra metres of welding etc.

 

I didn't write that it was "only" the price of the extra steel but : "mostly straight and fairly cheap steel that's needed for more lenght".

 

It may need as you said a bigger engine which isn't sure, as boats are often overpowered to start with, and hulls of wide beam narrowboats aren't made for speed, most of the extra HP's will be only pushing a bigger wave and using more fuel without gaining all much in speed.

 

The answer on your wondering if this boat is on it's second engine can be given by the sellers, who bought the boat when she was only 4 years old, so if it's the case it would have been done (or ordered to be done) by them.

 

Peter.

[Time2Change]

Well ... my first attempt at entering the hallowed sanctuary of the boating world has failed miserably .... I was being pressured to make an offer as "many others" were wanting to visit and I am very concious that at this minute 'I know nothing!' .... so I decided to go back to the boat and offer 25% less (standard practise when buying a house in France) than their asking price which the one doing the pressurising described as "insulting " .... oh well ... c'est la vie and back to the Internet .... no doubt you will hear from me soon ... thanks again for all the info ...

[George94]

Well ... my first attempt at entering the hallowed sanctuary of the boating world has failed miserably .... I was being pressured to make an offer as "many others" were wanting to visit and I am very concious that at this minute 'I know nothing!' .... so I decided to go back to the boat and offer 25% less (standard practise when buying a house in France) than their asking price which the one doing the pressurising described as "insulting " .... oh well ... c'est la vie and back to the Internet .... no doubt you will hear from me soon ... thanks again for all the info ...

 

I am sure that was the right thing to do.

 

 

A bigger boat needs more insulation, panneling, flooring and paint too, which is all still (imo) cheap in relation to the lenght difference + the labour for the extra metres of welding etc.

 

I didn't write that it was "only" the price of the extra steel but : "mostly straight and fairly cheap steel that's needed for more lenght".

 

It may need as you said a bigger engine which isn't sure, as boats are often overpowered to start with, and hulls of wide beam narrowboats aren't made for speed, most of the extra HP's will be only pushing a bigger wave and using more fuel without gaining all much in speed.

 

The answer on your wondering if this boat is on it's second engine can be given by the sellers, who bought the boat when she was only 4 years old, so if it's the case it would have been done (or ordered to be done) by them.

 

Peter.

 

How bizarre. It wasn't me who said it was "only" the price of the extra steel, it was you.

 

"only some more weight of mostly straight and fairly cheap steel".

 

So you are actually arguing with yourself!

 

I will leave you to it.

[bargemast]

 

I am sure that was the right thing to do.

 

 

How bizarre. It wasn't me who said it was "only" the price of the extra steel, it was you.

 

"only some more weight of mostly straight and fairly cheap steel".

 

So you are actually arguing with yourself!

 

I will leave you to it.

 

You're right George, I didn't even read my own writing properly and I apologise for this, I will continue now to argu with myself, which will keep me busy for a while.

 

Peter.

[bargemast]

Well ... my first attempt at entering the hallowed sanctuary of the boating world has failed miserably .... I was being pressured to make an offer as "many others" were wanting to visit and I am very concious that at this minute 'I know nothing!' .... so I decided to go back to the boat and offer 25% less (standard practise when buying a house in France) than their asking price which the one doing the pressurising described as "insulting " .... oh well ... c'est la vie and back to the Internet .... no doubt you will hear from me soon ... thanks again for all the info ...

 

Too bad, as she looked like a comfortable enough boat, but it's not good to be pushed into buying if you're not 100% sure that this is (was) the boat for you.

 

Don't worry, many more boats on the market, and if you're lucky you may even find a better and cheaper boat on which you'll feel happy too.

 

Peter.

[MtB]

Well ... my first attempt at entering the hallowed sanctuary of the boating world has failed miserably .... I was being pressured to make an offer as "many others" were wanting to visit

 

 

Ah now, classic technique of someone with an overpriced boat, no offers and no interest in the pipeline. If he has so many peeps waiting to view, it should not bother him in the slightest that you are not ready to offer. I hope you suggested he sells it to one of the other people queuing up to buy it! Keep an eye on the ad. I predict it will stiull be for sale in three months, by which time you'll have gained enough experience looking at boats to see this one in more accurate perspective.

 

 

 

so I decided to go back to the boat and offer 25% less (standard practise when buying a house in France) than their asking price which the one doing the pressurising described as "insulting "

 

 

Again, this bothers me deeply. There is no need for him to get snitty with you, just for making an offer that he found unacceptable.

 

, When you buy a boat, you also 'buy' the previous owner, as he will have applied his attitude in life (good or bad) to maintaining the boat. I'm still bothered by the mismatch in engine hours, claimed cruising pattern and in particular, your comment about the engine sounding rough at speed.

 

I'm beginning to conclude this vendor is fed up with being rumbled by canny potential buyers and getting low offers, hence his uncalled-for annoyance with you for not just handing over the money. There seems something fishy to me about both the boat and the owner. Best out of it, I reckon.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Mike the Boilerman

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

Ah now, classic technique of someone with an overpriced boat, no offers and no interest in the pipeline. If he has so many peeps waiting to view, it should not bother him in the slightest that you are not ready to offer. I hope you suggested he sells it to one of the other people queuing up to buy it! Keep an eye on the ad. I predict it will stiull be for sale in three months, by which time you'll have gained enough experience looking at boats to see this one in more accurate perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

Again, this bothers me deeply. There is no need for him to get snitty with you, just for making an offer that he found unacceptable.

 

, When you buy a boat, you also 'buy' the previous owner, as he will have applied his attitude in life (good or bad) to maintaining the boat. I'm still bothered by the mismatch in engine hours, claimed cruising pattern and in particular, your comment about the engine sounding rough at speed.

 

I'm beginning to conclude this vendor is fed up with being rumbled by canny potential buyers and getting low offers, hence his uncalled-for annoyance with you for not just handing over the money. There seems something fishy to me about both the boat and the owner. Best out of it, I reckon.

Agree

[George94]

 

You're right George, I didn't even read my own writing properly and I apologise for this, I will continue now to argu with myself, which will keep me busy for a while.

 

Peter.

 

No prob. I am pretty fallible myself!

[MtB]

Not sure I agree with 'pretty'...

 

:D

[George94]

It's the fallible that's pretty.

 

I look no better than you.

[MtB]

You look a bit pale in your avatar...

[George94]

You look a bit pale in your avatar...

 

Well, I have been accused of many things (not least by one MTB), but having a palid avatar is a new one. I shall take a pale ale to balance things out.

[Time2Change]

Have now seen more boats and spoken to more people about layout, engines, mooring etc etc and now wonder if I should have a boat built to my own specification but fit out myself (I have 30 years of hands on experience in the renovation / alteration of houses)

 

What do others think of this idea and can anyone recommend a company that can build the hull.. spray foam insulation ...etc etc.

[Time2Change]

Should have included a question about aluminium boats as I saw a 'petite' narrow boat moored on the lateral canal in Garonne .... are they better / worse than steel ... being lighter do they need a smaller engine?

[George94]

More expensive, more difficult to repair, less strong, and you'll need more ballast because a boat of a given size needs to be of a certain weight. If too light it will have less stability and will be more vulnerable to being blown about by the wind.

 

Those are a few of the reasons why you don't see many aluminium narrowboats.

 

Lightness is only an advantage when going fast, and you're not going to make friends going fast on a canal.

[bargemast]

Have now seen more boats and spoken to more people about layout, engines, mooring etc etc and now wonder if I should have a boat built to my own specification but fit out myself (I have 30 years of hands on experience in the renovation / alteration of houses)

 

What do others think of this idea and can anyone recommend a company that can build the hull.. spray foam insulation ...etc etc.

 

To get a boat built to your own spécifications might be the best solution, as that way you're sure to get exactly what you want and don't have to live with what may have been the choice of a (or several) previous owners, that boat will be your creation.

 

If you are able to do the complete fit out yourself you'll save a lot of money, as it's labour that makes the expenses.

 

Aluminium is a very personal choice, there aren't many aluminium canal boats around, they've never managed to become popular, ("Sea-otter" used to build some) but if you can get a hull made for a fair price, there's no reason not to.

 

You have to check things out like the difference in price between a steel and an aluminium hull, to see if that's what you want to pay for.

 

Good luck with your project.

 

Peter.

[Time2Change]

I have seen a boat for sale which has polystyrene board as insulation ... is this effective .. is there a problem with condensation behind ... as I'm hopefully going to live in a boat in the south of france should i necessarily be looking for spray foam insulation ... any experience advice would be much appreciated.

[Peter-Bullfinch]

Our 1986 boat has polystyrene insulation and it's just fine. Cool enough in summer and warm in winter. We hired a glass fibre boat in the early nineties with polystyrene insulation one very hot summer on the Canal du Midi and the boat was equally comfortable. Mind you, France can get very cold winters.

[Peter X]

Polystyrene is a material with some extreme properties; very lightweight (irrelevant here), an excellent insulator (a big plus), and highly inflammable. Once alight, it rapidly goes up in a fireball producing toxic smoke, hence the reason that polystyrene ceiling tiles in houses, widely used in the 1960s and 1970s, are routinely removed. However it needs air to burn, and sandwiched behind a layer of plywood on the wall of a boat I suppose it's unlikely to catch fire and unlikely to get much air to feed the fire? So is fire risk a problem or not I wonder?

[Time2Change]

Thanks for replies ... the house I am currently staying in has polystyrene behind plasterboard and it is effective but I wonder about warm air getting behind and condensing on the cold metal hull?

[John V]

If you are using slabs of insulating material (any type) that allow air to migrate to the hull either through the gaps in the boards or through the boards themselves then you will get condensation. If you are using boards with foil backing then just tape all the joins carefully to seal them.

If however you are not and are using permeable boards then use a vapour barrier. The green "British Board of Agrement" vapour barrier is ideal but at a pinch polythene sheet can be used. I have also used (very pleased with the result) a layer of the foil bubblewrap type insulation over foam taped with foil tape.

[Alan de Enfield]

The only other issue with polystyrene is that it 'eats' PVC.

 

Ensure that if any cables are run thru' the polystyrene that they are in a conduit and cannot touch the polystyrene.

 

What happens is that the plasticisers in the PVC 'migrate' away from the polystyrene and effectively leave the wires uninsulated - this can then result in wires touching, glowing red and setting fire to the easily ignited polystyrene - so either ensure 'non-migratory' PVC cables are used, or that cables are in conduit.

 

 

The polystyrene 'welds' itself to the PVC and then the PVC plasticisers migrate away from it.