Considering Living On A Boat

[Arthur Brown]

Consider carefully that few (if any) canal boats are seaworthy, so crossing from France to England may be a challenge -according to the boat you settle on. OK some good mariners have made passage in less than optimal craft but not without lots of skill and preparation and accepting that there IS a risk of meeting horrid seas in a boat designed for flat water.

[John V]

anyone considering taking an inland craft across the channel might consider having it taken over as deck cargo by a freighter. I don't have any knowledge of how you would go about arranging it but I have read of the method being used for a narrowboat.

[bargemast]

Time2Change isn't planning on crossing the Channel, he wants to buy a boat in France (if he can find one that fits his wishes) live on it and cruise with it there.

 

Peter.

[George94]

Time2Change isn't planning on crossing the Channel, he wants to buy a boat in France (if he can find one that fits his wishes) live on it and cruise with it there.

 

Peter.

 

He needs to get himself to Holland, buy a barge there at rather less than it would cost here, and then go wherever he wants.

 

The advantages of Holland are:

 

The Dutch usually speak better English than the English

They tend to be honest

There is a huge selection of boats to choose from.

Getting work done in Holland is cheaper than having it done in UK, and probably also France

Belgium, and its fine restaurants, is bang next door.

And France, with its fine restaurants, is bang next door to Belgium.

 

I rest my case.

[Time2Change]

Thanks for an amusing reply George .... I tried googling "cheap barges made by honest dutch craftsmen" and found a lot of results highlighting every word except "honest"!

[bargemast]

 

 

He needs to get himself to Holland, buy a barge there at rather less than it would cost here, and then go wherever he wants.

 

The advantages of Holland are:

 

The Dutch usually speak better English than the English

They tend to be honest

There is a huge selection of boats to choose from.

Getting work done in Holland is cheaper than having it done in UK, and probably also France

Belgium, and its fine restaurants, is bang next door.

And France, with its fine restaurants, is bang next door to Belgium.

 

I rest my case.

 

They'll often speak English, but to say to they speak better English than the English is maybe slightly exaggerated.

They tend to be honest, well there's honest people everywhere, as there are the ones that only remember the word.

There's a huge selection of boats to choose from, thats true, there are loads of boats everywhere, as the country is hardly anything but water.

Getting work done in Holland is cheaper, if you find the right place to get it done, yes but there are many stories of people that were taken to the cleaners there too.

The fine restaurants in Belgium and France are a bonus, if you can afford them.

 

If you are so fond of the Dutch, and if you have some spare time, you could maybe treat yourself on a barge(boat) searche trip to help Time2Change, and treat yourself at the same time in one (or more) fine restaurants while there.

 

 

Peter.

Edited July 1, 2015 by bargemast

[George94]

 

 

 

They'll often speak English, but to say to they speak better English than the English is maybe slightly exaggerated.

They tend to be honest, well there's honest people everywhere, as there are the ones that only remember the word.

There's a huge selection of boats to choose from, thats true, there are loads of boats everywhere, as the country is hardly anything but water.

Getting work done in Holland is cheaper, if you find the right place to get it done, yes but there are many stories of people that were taken to the cleaners there too.

The fine restaurants in Belgium and France are a bonus, if you can afford them.

 

If you are so fond of the Dutch, and if you have some spare time, you could maybe treat yourself on a barge(boat) searche trip to help Time2Change, and treat yourself at the same time in one (or more) fine restaurants while there.

 

 

Peter.

 

 

 

Thanks for an amusing reply George .... I tried googling "cheap barges made by honest dutch craftsmen" and found a lot of results highlighting every word except "honest"!

 

The barges were made 100 years ago. The fact that so many are still around is a tribute to Dutch barge-making skills.

 

As for honest:

 

Transparency International

I am sure that Time2Change is capable of googling himself, but if he wishes to send me a PM I can supply an address of somebody who knows the |Dutch market well.

[bargemast]

 

 

 

The barges were made 100 years ago. The fact that so many are still around is a tribute to Dutch barge-making skills.

 

As for honest:

 

Transparency International

I am sure that Time2Change is capable of googling himself, but if he wishes to send me a PM I can supply an address of somebody who knows the |Dutch market well.

 

If barges are maintained properly they can live a longtime, one of my barges from the past was an "Oostzee-Tjalk built 1897, now still afloat near Venice, in 1975 she didn't have a single doubling plate on her hull that was made of iron.

 

I've got a much smaller and more recent barge now that was built 1917, and she's still going too, but she wasn't built as strong as the Tjalk and has several plates added to her bottom, but she's still plenty good enough for many years of canal cruising.

 

Your honesty schedual shows that England is getting better, and that the Netherlands aren't as honest anymore than they were in 2012, but this isn't just about barge dealers or boatyards is it ?

 

If Time2Change wants to look for barges in Holland your contact may be a good start for him.

 

Peter.

[George94]

 

If barges are maintained properly they can live a longtime, one of my barges from the past was an "Oostzee-Tjalk built 1897, now still afloat near Venice, in 1975 she didn't have a single doubling plate on her hull that was made of iron.

 

I've got a much smaller and more recent barge now that was built 1917, and she's still going too, but she wasn't built as strong as the Tjalk and has several plates added to her bottom, but she's still plenty good enough for many years of canal cruising.

 

Your honesty schedual shows that England is getting better, and that the Netherlands aren't as honest anymore than they were in 2012, but this isn't just about barge dealers or boatyards is it ?

 

If Time2Change wants to look for barges in Holland your contact may be a good start for him.

 

Peter.

 

We have communicated.

 

Narrowboats are great for narrow canals, but elsewhere there are better options, and on Continental canals, the Dutch barge is generally the best choice.

[bargemast]

 

We have communicated.

 

Narrowboats are great for narrow canals, but elsewhere there are better options, and on Continental canals, the Dutch barge is generally the best choice.

 

If you can find one in good condition of the right dimensions at a reasonable price I agree with you.

 

But even in the Netherlands (a country that I know fairly well) good barges are becoming very expensive and harder to find.

 

That's why there are more and more replica barges being build of which some are made from the plans of their ancesters with round bilges.

 

Of course these will be much more expensive than the multi chine versions which still look rather nice too.

 

Peter.

[George94]

 

If you can find one in good condition of the right dimensions at a reasonable price I agree with you.

 

But even in the Netherlands (a country that I know fairly well) good barges are becoming very expensive and harder to find.

 

That's why there are more and more replica barges being build of which some are made from the plans of their ancesters with round bilges.

 

Of course these will be much more expensive than the multi chine versions which still look rather nice too.

 

Peter.

 

It costs surprisingly little to cut a chunk out of a larger barge to shorten it. Some yards are set up to do it very quickly, and they subsidise the cost by selling the scrap steel

[Time2Change]

Thanks ... that's something I hadn't thought of.

[bargemast]

 

It costs surprisingly little to cut a chunk out of a larger barge to shorten it. Some yards are set up to do it very quickly, and they subsidise the cost by selling the scrap steel

 

It's all depending on the money you can play with, what one calls surprisingly little to cut a chunk out of a larger barge to shorten it, may be a fortune for someone else.

 

Scrap steel isn't worth much at the moment, and only for demolition scrapyards that are equipped with huge hydraulic sciccors, which can cut up sections of a barge into small pièces in no time, will it still be doable, if not it will cost too much in labour to cut the removed section in scrap size bits.

 

In the early '70s when ths scrap value was high, and labour fairly cheap, shortening was really dirt-cheap, but those days have gone.

 

Peter.

Edited July 2, 2015 by bargemast

[George94]

It'

 

 

It's all depending on the money you can play with, what one calls surprisingly little to cut a chunk out of a larger barge to shorten it, may be a fortune for someone else.

 

Scrap steel isn't worth much at the moment, and only for demolition scrapyards that are equipped with huge hydraulic sciccors, which can cut up sections of a barge into small pièces in no time, will it still be doable, if not it will cost too much in labour to cut the removed section in scrap size bits.

 

In the early '70s when ths scrap value was high, and labour fairly cheap, shortening was really dirt-cheap, but those days have gone.

 

Peter.

 

It's still not an expensive exercise for a yard that is set up to do it. It makes sense when a barge comes out of service, so there is no interior to worry about. It wouldn't make sense to do it to a barge that has already been converted to residential use. But I take your point about scrap steel being worth less than it was.

 

I suspect that a round chine new-build would be a much more expensive proposition. But if I had the money... The normal replicas just don't cut it for me.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Thanks ... that's something I hadn't thought of.

 

 

This organisation is an invaluable source of help for some one having the same ideas as you http://www.barges.org/

The (Dutch) Barge Association

[bargemast]

It'

 

 

It's still not an expensive exercise for a yard that is set up to do it. It makes sense when a barge comes out of service, so there is no interior to worry about. It wouldn't make sense to do it to a barge that has already been converted to residential use. But I take your point about scrap steel being worth less than it was.

 

I suspect that a round chine new-build would be a much more expensive proposition. But if I had the money... The normal replicas just don't cut it for me.

 

Here is the site of a Dutch yard that can build your round chine dreamboat without any difficulty :

 

http://www.scheepsreparatiefriesland.nl/luxe-motor

 

There are several other places too, but it' just to give you an idea, which may help you dosing away with some nice pictures you can see with your eyes (and wallet) closed.

 

Sweet dreams,

 

Peter.

[Time2Change]

Thanks for link to DBA ... will join over the weekend.

[Time2Change]

So ... spent most of yesterday looking at images and layouts of boats and next week I am off to view one that appears to meet some of my criteria. So ... my question(s) now are what should i be looking for and at to determine whether I should instruct a surveyor or not? How do i determine whether its too expensive or not .. is there a 'Glasses guide' for boats? Any tips advice etc will be very very gratefully received!

[bargemast]

If you look at simular questions asked by other people, they often give the link to the boat(s) they're looking at, so other people will have at least an idea of what they can write their opinions about .

 

Only if you're interested in buying a boat of a type that was built in series will it be possible to make a comparison about prices, because you may be able to find out for what sort of prices boats of the same type and series have been sold, if it's not the case it will be different, as you know that you can't compare apples and pears.

 

Most important is how you feel when you're onboard, if you feel perfectly happy, and you can afford the price they're asking (possibly with some haggling) and you're seriously thinking of buying, you can have it surveyed under conditions you've agreed with the seller in writing first.

 

Good luck finding the right boat,

 

Peter.

[Time2Change]

Thanks again for replying Peter.

 

"you can have it surveyed under conditions you've agreed with the seller in writing first." ?

 

What 'conditions. would you suggest.

[bargemast]

Thanks again for replying Peter.

 

"you can have it surveyed under conditions you've agreed with the seller in writing first." ?

 

What 'conditions. would you suggest.

 

To name just one ; that all the eventually necessary repairs that need to be done on the underwater part are paid for by the seller, bent prop repaired or replaced etc.

 

You can't make him pay for certain things that you would have liked to be different in the fit out, but they may give you a possibility to discuss the price.

 

Peter.

[Time2Change]

Does that mean that any problems itemised by the surveyor which are above the waterline are down to the buyer?

[George94]

Does that mean that any problems itemised by the surveyor which are above the waterline are down to the buyer?

 

No, that was naming just one. If we assume that the seller has described the boat as seaworthy and in full working order, then anything that the surveyor finds that isn't seaworthy or in full working order should be made seaworthy or made to work by the buyer.

 

It doesn't really matter whether you make that a condition of the survey. The important thing is that the seller has claimed that everything is OK. Provided claims have been made, then you have a weapon with which to negotiate if the claims are found to be untrue.

 

If the seller simply says - there it is, I don't know anything about it - then you are not on such firm ground.

[Time2Change]

"If we assume that the seller has described the boat as seaworthy and in full working order, then anything that the surveyor finds that isn't seaworthy or in full working order should be made seaworthy or made to work by the buyer."

 

Thanks for that info ... am I right in assuming that the last word in the above quote should be seller and not buyer?

[ditchcrawler]

Simple really if the boat is £150000 and the surveyor says the hull and engine require £10000 spending on them you go back to the seller and say, will you drop the price by £10000 or will you put it right. He in turn can say a) Yes I will fix it, I will give you £10000 off. c) the price is £150000 take it or leave it, its up to you. You then ether pay or walk away having forked out for the survey.

 

is b bracket

Edited July 5, 2015 by ditchcrawler