Increased Visitor moorings????? in Leeds

[fanshaft]

I just ain't getting this. Richard parry says one thing, and everyone else is doing what they want. Lol. Is this for real??

 

No it's not! This work was completed before the visitor moorings strategy was implemented. In fairness Richard Parry and Ian Rogers would not know the detail of the Leeds project hence referral to Waterway Manager Jon Horsfall. Any further changes or additions (e.g. above Office Lock) will need to be undertaken in accordance to the guidelines - private moorings excepted.

Regards

David L.

 

I think this is the relevant section of David's post:

 

I don't know the area that well (though we've moored in Leeds more than once), and maybe because of that I'm struggling to work out which of these are completely new moorings - i.e. places where you could not previously moor a boat, but now can - and which are places where you could previously moor a boat, but which have now been re-designated as "visitor moorings" (with time limits attached).

 

Is this about right?

 

Above Knostrop Lock - previously existing mooring, now designated visitor mooring with shorter time limit

 

Facilities pontoon - previously the whole thing was short stay for using services only, now part of it is a visitor mooring

 

Lock landing - previously was (implicitly) for use of boats going through lock only, now part of it is a visitor mooring

 

Fearns Wharf - previously existing visitor mooring, length of stay increased

 

Brewery Wharf - previously not available as in private hands, now available as a visitor mooring

 

Granary Wharf pontoon moorings (x 6-8?) - previously private charged-for moorings, now CRT visitor moorings

 

If that is indeed the situation (and apologies if I'm misunderstanding anything), it sounds as if the number of moorings available has indeed increased quite a bit, and the maximum length of stay has only been reduced at one spot.

 

 

Thanks - yes a very good summary.

 

David L

[pearley]

On the other hand, the visitor moorings at Clarence Dock can be extremely busy, especially at weekends when boats come up river to visit the town shops and market. On some of the times we've been there double mooring on the pontoon and other boats against the stone walls as been the norm.

[fanshaft]

I don't understand "it could be made 14 day if there is demand"

 

Surely it should be 14 day unless crowded?

 

I'm all for more moorings and vm's in Leeds center though.

 

Good point and worth considering.. VM's are (I think) generally thought of as less than 14 days. Let's see how it goes for the rest of this year. It's good to see a gradual take up of the new moorings as i walk past them. . Richard Parry has asked if we'd look at extending stay times at any of the locations if feedback suggests it would be beneficial and the answer is 'yes of course'!

Regards David L

[Robbo]

Dear all, thank you for the various comments and feedback on the new visitor moorings in Leeds. As the project leader I clearly don't think we are all bonkers!

...

 

Thank you for the comprehensive response, it's good to see that these changes are in progress and moorings are becoming back under CRT control. Most of the areas listed although now on paper are either under CRT control or were for services only weren't used in that regard due to either no signage to the contrary so could have been used. Brewery Wharf moorings although private are on a main footpath and the boaters I've known that have moored here (including myself) have had no issues.

 

It's good too see that something is finally going to be done about Clarence Dock as the poorly planned moorings in this area has what's caused the shortfall of visitor moorings. I will be interested too hear what ideas are been thrown around. My thoughts are that the residential moorings should be moved to the commercial area, with the now residential been used as cheaper leisure moorings and the current leisure moorings been used as a mix of leisure and visitor. This I would see as the best solution for permanent mooring (especially residential use) as well as for visiting boaters.

 

 

It's good to see that Granary Wharf is now back in CRT control, why BW ever gave the control up is beyond me. This is bar far the best news as the management company were poor and fraudulent.

 

It does however strike that when development happens, CRT were happy to let control of the moorings and restrict access for boaters to please the developers. This is the case at Tower Works were the moorings have restricted access and only accessible officially M-F 7am-7pm - (I say officially, as the gate doesn't now close properly, which was more than likely caused by a boater, and is now quite easily opened). Clarence Dock with the restricted access regarding the bridges, and Granary Wharf with handing over to a management company that was their for selling the flats in the area.

 

It's good to see the Asda and Victoria bridge will finally be able to be used. Due to the weir lack of repair for the last 2-3 years and lack of dredging in this area the Victoria Bridge mooring has never been used even if wanted to.

 

 

Other suggestions to put on the table...

 

Moorings next to Fazenda on the river, there's a small landing and moorings in this area that are in disrepair. The landing should be made suitable for the Water Taxi's as they currently use the lock landing at the moment and although the drivers do move for boaters, when it's a busy day for the taxis it's usually a busy day for boaters wanting to use the lock. In addition I've also heard they may also increase the number of taxis.

 

Office lock moorings, instead of 7am-7pm restriction - just have the gate on a BW key.

 

Facilities, the facilities below Leeds lock are really poor with lack of bin storage (a quick win here would be to allow the leisure boaters to use the residential bins). The whole facilities place needs gutting and revamping. I was hopeful the other year when for a week there was a stoppage for it announcing that they were doing it, but it was just a lick of paint to remove the mold.

 

Granary Wharf also needs facilities and just more than a pump out. An elsan, toilet and showers should be re-instated - why did CRT agree to ISIS that they should be sold off????

 

Regarding the lock landing at Leeds lock, I don't think this mooring is necessary and in one situation is actually a risk, although a small risk is during the winter months this does landing does "flood" quite regularly. I think the moorings on the river should really be off a pontoon especially when the mooring rings/bollards are low, if they are high there's less of a risk.

 

Regarding the times, during summer months I can see the times been reasonable, although short. There should be two-tier times, where in winter the times are doubled.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Robbo

[Robbo]

My comment in red...

 

 

Above Knostrop Lock - previously existing mooring, now designated visitor mooring with shorter time limit

Not really Leeds, also not necessary. The whole mooring is a long tow path and only the end is now limited. The area makes it not used. You could get over 15 boats in this area, around 4-5 in the visitor bit.

 

Facilities pontoon - previously the whole thing was short stay for using services only, now part of it is a visitor mooring

No signage regarding apart from on the pump out which looked like just for that area, so was used for long stays - only a paper gain, but 3 boats

 

Lock landing - previously was (implicitly) for use of boats going through lock only, now part of it is a visitor mooring

See my response above, and only room for 1 boat.

 

Fearns Wharf - previously existing visitor mooring, length of stay increased

Good but old news - only room for 1 boat.

 

Brewery Wharf - previously not available as in private hands, now available as a visitor mooring

Mooring was never restricted as the private company didn't care (the mooring is on a public area footpath), the moorings are also quite high (bar one stepped area) so for narrowboats it's not an option unless your quite nimble (one of the reasons it hardly got used) - only really a paper gain

 

Granary Wharf pontoon moorings (x 6-8?) - previously private charged-for moorings, now CRT visitor moorings

Best news, but old news

 

If that is indeed the situation (and apologies if I'm misunderstanding anything), it sounds as if the number of moorings available has indeed increased quite a bit, and the maximum length of stay has only been reduced at one spot.

 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Robbo

[pearley]

Robbo, did the sanitary station at the bottom of Candle House ever open for boaters?

[Robbo]

Robbo, did the sanitary station at the bottom of Candle House ever open for boaters?

 

It was always open for boaters who were paying at Granary Wharf, it was however a parlour to get the key from security and rarely used due to the lack of knowledge of it's existence.

 

Was removed about 1-2 years ago when still under isis management.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Robbo

[magictime]

 

 

Was removed about 1-2 years ago when still under isis management.

 

I didn't know this. Physically removed, you mean, not just decommissioned? What a bizarre decision.

 

It's also pretty bizarre (although welcome from a visiting boater's point of view!) that all the pontoons are visitor rather than long-term moorings. I could never fathom why they were allowed to sit there basically empty all the time they were being managed by Isis, when each of them was surely worth - what? - £2,000 a year or so as a long-term mooring? (It's a prime spot, surely, being so handy for Leeds and for so many different waterways.) I said this to the guy in the office at least once, but it seemed his bosses just weren't interested. It's a wonder they could be bothered collecting their few quid a night from the visiting boats that stayed there.

[pearley]

In fact, when we asked about staying, and paying, for a week we were told that 2 days maximum. As you say, a hell of a way to run a business.

Edited June 20, 2015 by pearley

[black sheep]

 

 

 

 

"The facilities pontoon was rather longer than needed (I never saw more than two boats on it using the facilities and it seemed a waste of a mooring) and it was short stay so we made the top end a visitor mooring (handy for the facilities!), "

 

Last time we passed through Leeds in April we couldn't get on the facilities pontoon, due to what looked like long term moorers, there was even a boat moored right opposite the pump out machine with a 1 hour max stay sign on it. We were there 3 days and none of the boats moved in that time. We had to carry our rubbish from Clarence Dock.

[Robbo]

 

I didn't know this. Physically removed, you mean, not just decommissioned? What a bizarre decision.

 

Physically removed, think it's an office of some kind now. Not sure if it's CRT owned.

[Robbo]

Last time we passed through Leeds in April we couldn't get on the facilities pontoon, due to what looked like long term moorers, there was even a boat moored right opposite the pump out machine with a 1 hour max stay sign on it. We were there 3 days and none of the boats moved in that time. We had to carry our rubbish from Clarence Dock.

 

There's around 3 boats (2 now, but 3 at the time) that CRT are aware of that are CMers. They were at Clarence Dock for approx 6 months, but moved to the facilities pontoon at around that time.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Robbo

[fanshaft]

Please see my comments below in red.

 

 

 

Thank you for the comprehensive response, it's good to see that these changes are in progress and moorings are becoming back under CRT control. Most of the areas listed although now on paper are either under CRT control or were for services only weren't used in that regard due to either no signage to the contrary so could have been used. Brewery Wharf moorings although private are on a main footpath and the boaters I've known that have moored here (including myself) have had no issues.

 

It's good too see that something is finally going to be done about Clarence Dock as the poorly planned moorings in this area has what's caused the shortfall of visitor moorings. I will be interested too hear what ideas are been thrown around. My thoughts are that the residential moorings should be moved to the commercial area, with the now residential been used as cheaper leisure moorings and the current leisure moorings been used as a mix of leisure and visitor. This I would see as the best solution for permanent mooring (especially residential use) as well as for visiting boaters.

 

The commercial dock area is not controlled by CRT but we are in discussion with the property management people to see whether visitor moorings could be available at times of high demand. There are plans to use the commercial dock for water based events etc but I don't know any detail.

 

 

It's good to see that Granary Wharf is now back in CRT control, why BW ever gave the control up is beyond me. This is bar far the best news as the management company were poor and fraudulent.

 

It does however strike that when development happens, CRT were happy to let control of the moorings and restrict access for boaters to please the developers. This is the case at Tower Works were the moorings have restricted access and only accessible officially M-F 7am-7pm - (I say officially, as the gate doesn't now close properly, which was more than likely caused by a boater, and is now quite easily opened). Clarence Dock with the restricted access regarding the bridges, and Granary Wharf with handing over to a management company that was their for selling the flats in the area.

 

 

It's good to see the Asda and Victoria bridge will finally be able to be used. Due to the weir lack of repair for the last 2-3 years and lack of dredging in this area the Victoria Bridge mooring has never been used even if wanted to.

 

It's been suggested the water taxis use the Victoria bridge mooring - but it will need dredging. I'd prefer to see them use the steps and ladning in the weir stream but understand the owners won't allow it.

 

 

Other suggestions to put on the table...

 

Moorings next to Fazenda on the river, there's a small landing and moorings in this area that are in disrepair. The landing should be made suitable for the Water Taxi's as they currently use the lock landing at the moment and although the drivers do move for boaters, when it's a busy day for the taxis it's usually a busy day for boaters wanting to use the lock. In addition I've also heard they may also increase the number of taxis.

 

Office lock moorings, instead of 7am-7pm restriction - just have the gate on a BW key.

 

I believe this has been under discussion but the owners are not keen due to the size of the gate - maybe another smaller gate?

 

Facilities, the facilities below Leeds lock are really poor with lack of bin storage (a quick win here would be to allow the leisure boaters to use the residential bins). The whole facilities place needs gutting and revamping. I was hopeful the other year when for a week there was a stoppage for it announcing that they were doing it, but it was just a lick of paint to remove the mold.

 

There is refuse disposal by the Facilities pontoon below Leeds Lock. I would agree re a revamp.

 

Granary Wharf also needs facilities and just more than a pump out. An elsan, toilet and showers should be re-instated - why did CRT agree to ISIS that they should be sold off????

 

I think it was in BW time actually - but all agree it was a mistake. I'd like to see one of the railway arches being used, but this needs negotiation with Network Rail.

 

Regarding the lock landing at Leeds lock, I don't think this mooring is necessary and in one situation is actually a risk, although a small risk is during the winter months this does landing does "flood" quite regularly. I think the moorings on the river should really be off a pontoon especially when the mooring rings/bollards are low, if they are high there's less of a risk.

 

Agreed. The Leeds lock landing is there for those who wish to use when conditions allow. Pontoons are very expensive!

 

Regarding the times, during summer months I can see the times been reasonable, although short. There should be two-tier times, where in winter the times are doubled.

 

In winter all the visitor moorings will be 14 days as far as i am aware.

 

Kind regards

 

David L

 

 

[SamKingfisher]

Part of the problem is caused by the fact that you can't mooch from newlay to Leeds, it has to be done in one go really, to feel safe. This means that boats from the Apperley Bridge and Shipley area tend to mooch towards Skipton rather than leeds. I can't see a quick solution to this.

[Pluto]

This weekend is Leeds Waterfront Festival, and the L&LC Society will have Kennet in Leeds Basin (I hate using the made-up Granary Wharf name) in the entrance to one of the drydocks. Not sure of the exact opening times, but it should be something like 11am to 4pm on Saturday and Sunday. We could pass on any comments re mooring, though CRT staff should be in attendance as well.

 

The following Saturday, 4 July, Kennet will be at Apperley Bridge, to support a CRT maintenance yard open day. The workshops and the blacksmith's shop will be open, with a blacksmith and other tradesmen in attendance. Kennet will also be open, and I will probably lead walks around the site to look at heritage features. Parking will be on the road as there is insufficient space close to the workshop, so you will need to walk up from the swing bridge to get to the locks and workshop.

[Robbo]

Of course it doesn't help the mooring situation at Clarence Dock when some boaters inconsiderately moor by leaving space at the the end of pontoon

 

Edited June 24, 2015 by Robbo

[cotswoldsman]

Of course it doesn't help the mooring situation at Clarence Dock when some boaters inconsiderately moor by leaving space at the the end of pontoon

 

I hate those boaters that moor upside down

Oh your edit has made my comments seem rather oit of place

[Pluto]

The L&LC Society's heritage boat Kennet was open to the public last weekend in Leeds Basin, and we had over 1000 visitors. There didn't seem to be too much of a problem with mooring, though you can't really tell from a short visit. We are off to Apperley Bridge this week to be part of the Open Day at CRT's Apperley Bridge workshops, which will be open from 10am to 4pm on Saturday 4th July. The blacksmith's forge will be operating, and there will be demonstrations using lime mortar, as well as a walk through the workshops where they are currently finishing off some new ground paddle stands.

 

If you are coming, please park on the road either side of the swing bridge so as not to inconvenience those living in the houses below the locks too much.

[Robbo]

The L&LC Society's heritage boat Kennet was open to the public last weekend in Leeds Basin, and we had over 1000 visitors. There didn't seem to be too much of a problem with mooring, though you can't really tell from a short visit. We are off to Apperley Bridge this week to be part of the Open Day at CRT's Apperley Bridge workshops, which will be open from 10am to 4pm on Saturday 4th July. The blacksmith's forge will be operating, and there will be demonstrations using lime mortar, as well as a walk through the workshops where they are currently finishing off some new ground paddle stands.

 

Was a nice Festival this year and it was nice to see at least one fine example historical boat involved. Sadly some of the big boats that have been involved in previous year haven't been for this and last years

 

It was busy mooring wise and especially at Granary, but spaces were still available. I've noted that since the charge has dropped here and now under CRT control it is used a lot more which can only be a good thing. Lets hope we can get the water points working and a sanitary station in this area.

[Robbo]

Please see my comments below in red.

 

 

 

 

 

Facilities, the facilities below Leeds lock are really poor with lack of bin storage (a quick win here would be to allow the leisure boaters to use the residential bins). The whole facilities place needs gutting and revamping. I was hopeful the other year when for a week there was a stoppage for it announcing that they were doing it, but it was just a lick of paint to remove the mold.

There is refuse disposal by the Facilities pontoon below Leeds Lock. I would agree re a revamp.

With this I meant there's only room for one bin which in summer gets over full, although doesn't help by someone dumping a fridge freezer in it. If the permanent leisure users of the dock were able to use the residential mooring bin area, this area is quite large and can take multiple bins (it's near the flood gates for the dock) it would reduce this issue a bit.

[fanshaft]

 

Was a nice Festival this year and it was nice to see at least one fine example historical boat involved. Sadly some of the big boats that have been involved in previous year haven't been for this and last years

 

It was busy mooring wise and especially at Granary, but spaces were still available. I've noted that since the charge has dropped here and now under CRT control it is used a lot more which can only be a good thing. Lets hope we can get the water points working and a sanitary station in this area.

 

Indeed it was. I agree regarding the historic boats (though the superb keal 'Sheaf' was at Thwaite Mill, as was the narrow boat 'Elland', but other invited craft didn't appear. It wasn't possible to get a commercial craft up to Leeds this year as the tanker is on dock for survey etc, and the other barges are on laid up insurance so couldn't move. Next year hopefully! The water point at Office Lock has been reported out of action (someone stole the tap) and will be repaired shortly. Pump out below Office lock is progressing. Water and electricity on the pontoons at Granary wharf was provided as part of the charge by the third party owners. Having agreed to not charge for the moorings they have understandably disconnected the supplies! Hopefuilly a way forward can be found, and ultimately a sanitary facility perhaps.

Regards David L

 

 

 

With this I meant there's only room for one bin which in summer gets over full, although doesn't help by someone dumping a fridge freezer in it. If the permanent leisure users of the dock were able to use the residential mooring bin area, this area is quite large and can take multiple bins (it's near the flood gates for the dock) it would reduce this issue a bit.

 

Good idea. i will take that forward.

 

regards

 

David L

Edited June 29, 2015 by fanshaft

[Robbo]

 

Indeed it was. I agree regarding the historic boats (though the superb keal 'Sheaf' was at Thwaite Mill, as was the narrow boat 'Elland', but other invited craft didn't appear. It wasn't possible to get a commercial craft up to Leeds this year as the tanker is on dock for survey etc, and the other barges are on laid up insurance so couldn't move. Next year hopefully! The water point at Office Lock has been reported out of action (someone stole the tap) and will be repaired shortly. Pump out below Office lock is progressing. Water and electricity on the pontoons at Granary wharf was provided as part of the charge by the third party owners. Having agreed to not charge for the moorings they have understandably disconnected the supplies! Hopefuilly a way forward can be found, and ultimately a sanitary facility perhaps.

 

Both Sheaf and Elland are permanent moorers at Thwaite so if anyone is passing keep an eye out for them. I think Sheaf was going to head for the centre for the festival but the work on the weir has caused the water level to drop and it's too shallow between Knostrop lock and flood gates.