T & M Lock 53 (Thurlwood) blocked - sunken boat

[alan_fincher]

Vessels to have fenders ready for use

 

Every vessel navigated on any canal shall have ready for

immediate use proper fenders of suitable material and in good

condition and the master of such vessel shall use such fenders

whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking against any other

vessel or against any wall, lockgate, bridge or other thing.

 

 

 

Mind you "whenever there is a risk of the vessel striking against any other vessel" could surely mean you need to deploy side fenders between two narrow boats sharing a broad lock side by side.

 

That's exactly what one is recommended not to do, so do you make sure you are never in disregard of the bye-laws, or do you actually apply common sense where it is the better option?

[Paul C]

Each to their own way of doing things, but I'm not sure if single-handing I'd be at all happy leaving the boat in gear at all in the locks going up. Currently on the Leeds/Liverpool and the potential disaster I could see with these locks would be as the lock filled and the bow of the boat moved towards the top gate as the cill disappears, it would be VERY easy for it to jam under the wooden panelling that is on the gate (with a helpful gap below presumably just for that purpose ) .If lucky it would just break the chains holding the button but if unlucky the bow itself would catch under the gate increasing the chance of sinking quite considerably.

 

edited to add that I don't mind leaving it in gear going down with the button pushed up against the bottom gate (provided the gate has a smooth surface and nothing to catch the button on) since that keeps the stern away from the cill and in a broad lock will hold the boat to the side of the lock.

 

I didn't think I'd need to point out the difference, my text related to narrow locks and obviously L&L has broad locks, where the technique is different for singlehanding.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

 

I didn't think I'd need to point out the difference, my text related to narrow locks and obviously L&L has broad locks, where the technique is different for singlehanding.

I have to say that I just feel generally uncomfortable leaving a boat in drive without anyone on board to knock it out of gear if anything untoward happens. The sinking scenario was just the first thing that came to mind but others are equally valid. What would you do in a narrow lock if someone's dog (or even a person) fell in whilst you were operating it? You've obviously got to shut the paddles quickly but would there be any point if the dog is going to get 'blended' by the prop anyway? What happens should you fall in? I don't know how long your boat is but with my 60 footer I'd have to swim dangerously close to the back of the boat to get to a lock ladder and those props really can bite!

[Philip]

That's the lock with the nasty central top gate paddle.

 

 

With a full baffle to deflect the surge to the wall this must be the least that could go wrong? I'm surprised at the over-caution with gate paddles when so many people seem to do potentially more hazardous things such as leaving the boat unattended while the lock is in use, in this example Also other things like leaving a windlass on the spindle of a drawn paddle and not leaving the pawl on the ratchet when winding - these seem to be potentially very dangerous practices yet a lot of people do them but still get very nervous about using gate paddles.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Philip

[Paul C]

I have to say that I just feel generally uncomfortable leaving a boat in drive without anyone on board to knock it out of gear if anything untoward happens. The sinking scenario was just the first thing that came to mind but others are equally valid. What would you do in a narrow lock if someone's dog (or even a person) fell in whilst you were operating it? You've obviously got to shut the paddles quickly but would there be any point if the dog is going to get 'blended' by the prop anyway? What happens should you fall in? I don't know how long your boat is but with my 60 footer I'd have to swim dangerously close to the back of the boat to get to a lock ladder and those props really can bite!

 

I'd feel uncomfortable NOT leaving the boat in gear whilst going up in a narrow lock. It controls the boat. It would need to be a small dog to fit between the gunnels and lock wall to fall in there and be at risk of ingestion into the propellor; if its behind the boat the risk of ingestion is slim. I believe it could happen, and probably has, I've never seen anyone fall into a lock whilst a boat's in it though.

 

 

 

Working off memory, i think that is how an ill fated trip boat ended up sinking some years ago, where several disabled people drowned? We always keep the bow away from the gates on the L&L.

With a full baffle to deflect the surge to the wall this must be the least that could go wrong? I'm surprised at the over-caution with gate paddles when so many people seem to do potentially more hazardous things such as leaving the boat unattended while the lock is in use, in this example Also other things like leaving a windlass on the spindle of a drawn paddle and not leaving the pawl on the ratchet when winding - these seem to be potentially very dangerous practices yet a lot of people do them but still get very nervous about using gate paddles.

 

Citing the "Drum Solo" case that catweasal mentioned (Google "MAIB Drum Solo" and you'll find the accident report) one of the significant factors was that people were trapped on a boat when it was in a lock. I'd say, broadly, its safer to be off the boat than on it in a lock. Being off the boat is not the same as leavyou lllling the boat unattended - you're at the lock, the boat's in it.

 

I've not really understood the nervousness about gate paddles (with suitable baffle plate - I know some don't have them, but they're uncommon). Yes, there will be some water at the front of the boat. If it was raining hard, would you leave the front doors open? So...close them whilst going up in locks.....!

 

The possibility of catching or hanging on the front fender should be a non-issue. There should be some kind of weak link or way its mounted so that if it does catch or hang, the weak link breaks or the fender simply flops up without allowing any significant force to be imposed upon the rest of the boat which might affect its stabiliy.

[Blazeaway]

Got me thinking.......As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Does this stuff exist ? I've not seen it yet but I will now go and look for it.

[Blazeaway]

SHOCKED.....

 

I can find no guidance/safety instructions for operating any CRT equipment eg locks, bridges.

[Paul C]

Got me thinking.......As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Does this stuff exist ? I've not seen it yet but I will now go and look for it.

 

I'd say its the responsibility of the individuals concerned to equip themselves with the appropriate knowledge.

[Lmcgrath87]

Got me thinking.......As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Does this stuff exist ? I've not seen it yet but I will now go and look for it.

 

We read the boaters handbook (free pdf from C&RT) quite a few times before setting off on our trip - luckily on the Thames so most locks are manned, and mechanical but, we were still concerned. My husband also watch ALOT of youtube videos to try and prepare himself.

 

We will be going on a helmsman course soon hopefully, but we spent a lot of time researching locks/bridges/knots etc before setting off on our boat for the first time.

[Blazeaway]

I'd say its the responsibility of the individuals concerned to equip themselves with the appropriate knowledge.

Good point, but primary source surely should be the owners of the equipment, so where are crt providing the 'knowledge'

[Dave Clinton]

Good point, but primary source surely should be the owners of the equipment, so where are crt providing the 'knowledge'

 

As you've been told a few times now it's in the Boaters Handbook, provided free by CRT what exactly are you expecting?

 

Lockkeepers?

[Lmcgrath87]

Here's a link to the handbook. We found it really useful.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/141.pdf

[Paul C]

Good point, but primary source surely should be the owners of the equipment, so where are crt providing the 'knowledge'

 

 

Why?? Are you from USA, by any chance????

[Dave Clinton]

I think maybe from the past?

 

When there were lock keepers to oversee the process and lengthsmen to look after the canal....

[MtB]

SHOCKED.....

 

I can find no guidance/safety instructions for operating any CRT equipment eg locks, bridges.

 

 

Where did you look?

[madcat]

I've fallen into the lock with the boat , I skidded on the coping stones which were slippery and slid straight in behind the boat . I was about to get back on to exit the lock. I was able to climb up the rudder with a bit of help from a friend , my waterproof coat kept me from going under and I was wet from armpit level down. Luckily the boat was not in gear.

 

The bloke on the boat behind was hassling me to hurry up and had no concern about me going in, he just wanted past. All my clothes survived , my phone was in the ticket drawer but I dumped the rig boots because the sole was wearing and might have contributed to the fall.

 

Luckily the boat was not in gear, I never ever leave it in gear in locks or leave it on its own either. I keep control with the bow rope , not elegant or especially efficient but it works for me.

 

I've heard of somebody falling into the hold from a lock side but who where or when I can't remember.

[alan_fincher]

 

Citing the "Drum Solo" case that catweasal mentioned (Google "MAIB Drum Solo" and you'll find the accident report) one of the significant factors was that people were trapped on a boat when it was in a lock. I'd say, broadly, its safer to be off the boat than on it in a lock. Being off the boat is not the same as leavyou lllling the boat unattended - you're at the lock, the boat's in it.

 

Can we assume you are referring to the tragic accident with Drum Major ?

[Paul C]

Yeah Drum Major!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I've fallen into the lock with the boat , I skidded on the coping stones which were slippery and slid straight in behind the boat . I was about to get back on to exit the lock. I was able to climb up the rudder with a bit of help from a friend , my waterproof coat kept me from going under and I was wet from armpit level down. Luckily the boat was not in gear.

 

The bloke on the boat behind was hassling me to hurry up and had no concern about me going in, he just wanted past. All my clothes survived , my phone was in the ticket drawer but I dumped the rig boots because the sole was wearing and might have contributed to the fall.

 

Luckily the boat was not in gear, I never ever leave it in gear in locks or leave it on its own either. I keep control with the bow rope , not elegant or especially efficient but it works for me.

 

I've heard of somebody falling into the hold from a lock side but who where or when I can't remember.

Have to say that I'm in agreement with you in the use of ropes to control the boat in locks. I wouldn't say that it is particularly inefficient since I was converted to it on the South Oxford going through some of their quite narrow locks. My original technique was to nose the boat to top gate and hold it there in gear (with me aboard). Where that tended to go wrong was the initial inrush of water when the side paddles were lifted pushed the boat backwards and then the circulatory motion of the water in the lock would draw it forward again, often striking the top gate harder that I would like (even if the boat was put into hard astern). By using the centre line to pull the boat up against the top gate and securing it on a bollard, the initial inrush of water didn't move the boat backwards at all so there was no longer any impact with the gate caused by the circulation. Each to their own but it works for me.

[Saffa]

Got me thinking.......As a person relatively new to this world of narrow boating I am aware of a lack of prominence of info explaining or showing how to properly and safely take a boat through a lock.

 

I accept that I should go on a helmsmanship course but that will only partially cover whats required.

 

When I was working in big industry there were loads of safety videos on all sorts of eg fork lift trucks etc.

 

Surely this is something CRT should provide as it is their infrastructure that is employed and it would appear that most of these sinkings are often operator error. Not surprising if no proper specific guidance is provided.

 

Does this stuff exist ? I've not seen it yet but I will now go and look for it.

 

 

CRT do a free DVD.

 

Here is the You Tube Video

 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/navigating-the-waterways/boaters-handbook

 

 

If you want the DVD

 

https://shop.canalrivertrust.org.uk/shop

Edited June 18, 2015 by Saffa