Economizing a solution to flat batteries.

[bizzard]

I remember Micha Cook on here last year, something about the outboard motor wouldn't start. I think I remember they said they operate somewhere between Bulls bridge and Uxbridge.

[blackrose]

 

Are you meaning this part ?

 

 

No, I meant the original post where he mentioned a mains charger.

 

Without clarifying the situation it's unwise make assumptions or recommendations.

Edited March 19, 2015 by blackrose

[Micha Cook]

Morning all! Only just got online, thank you ! These considerations are all very helpful.

Yes, living on board, and making sure to start the engine manually now so as not to drain the startup.

We have enough in the piggy for 2 100W and a MPPT controller (moored up next to a nice man called Simon last week who explained all the ins and outs plus more on AC/DC current to boot so ordering those.

We're in St Pancras at the minute, not far from long term moorings so I suppose we could ask! There are some more coming up as well, so if that's an ok thing, that might be a better idea. I worried it would be a faux pas. Is it okay to approach a mooring site with such issues?

No car to speak of, but perhaps that's where cooking friends dinner is a good thing

We've done alright with running our engine, as we're moving really far. From Stanstead Abbots to St Pancras in just over 2 months

Plus, seeing as the boat is small and we're both out over 12hours of the day, so when we get home what we want to do is light the stove, and the LED fairy lights (done and done, what better lighting is there?! and watch a film on a laptop that's been charging all day at work, or read.

As for living in purgatory, unappreciated. The implications that we're somehow squatting on a covered raft is rude.

You know, Alan, fairy lights with a tiny little book lamp make for some very zen reading light Try it, it's very pleasant and calming

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^{Dilemma indeed.}

 

^{I took the OP to be living aboard too, but they appear to be living frugally (power wise) as they say two days' cruising each weekend provides enough charge to last them a whole week, using just the 6amp outboard charger. But now they only cruise one day a week so the amount of engine charging that the solar needs to replace is quite small.}

 

^{The days are getting longer and the light stronger, and I think a single 100w panel and cheap pwm controller will get them out of the hole they are in now. They only want to run a few LEDs and a water pump. The battery has been demonstrated to be big enough, it just needs some more charging now they are cruising less.}

 

^{Later, when more funds are available I suggest a second 100w panel if there is room on the roof and chucking (or selling) the cheap pwm and getting a MPPT.}

 

^{One final thought, if the OP runs a car, lugging the battery to the car and charge it via the ciggy lighter on the next long journey...}

 

I remember Micha Cook on here last year, something about the outboard motor wouldn't start. I think I remember they said they operate somewhere between Bulls bridge and Uxbridge.

Oh? Only bought the boat in January, though I was on here a while ago fretting that an old survey had said Bluebell had patches in the hull only 1mm thick ahahah. Dilemma clarified, new survey and all's well though, so here we are. Wooohooo.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Micha Cook

[bizzard]

Morning all! Only just got online, thank you ! These considerations are all very helpful.

 

Yes, living on board, and making sure to start the engine manually now so as not to drain the startup.

 

We have enough in the piggy for 2 100W and a MPPT controller (moored up next to a nice man called Simon last week who explained all the ins and outs plus more on AC/DC current to boot so ordering those.

 

We're in St Pancras at the minute, not far from long term moorings so I suppose we could ask! There are some more coming up as well, so if that's an ok thing, that might be a better idea. I worried it would be a faux pas. Is it okay to approach a mooring site with such issues?

No car to speak off, but perhaps that's cooking friends dinner is a good thing

We've done alright with running our engine, as we're moving really far. From Stanstead Abbots to St Pancras in just over 2 months

Plus, seeing as the boat is small and we're both out over 12hours of the day, so when we get home what we want to do is light the stove, and the LED fairy lights (done and done, what better lighting is there?! and watch a film on a laptop that's been charging all day at work, or read.

As for living in purgatory, unappreciated. The implications that we're somehow squatting on a covered raft is rude.

You know, Alan, fairy lights with a tiny little book lamp make for some very zen reading light Try it, it's very pleasant and calming

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh? Only bought the boat in January, though I was on here a while ago fretting that an old survey had said Bluebell had patches in the hull only 1mm thick ahahah. Dilemma clarified, new survey and all's well though, so here we are. Wooohooo.

Be pardon Micha, couldn't have been you.

[Micha Cook]

Be pardon Micha, couldn't have been you.

No problemo at all. Actually, heard good things about the Perivale and Uxbridge area, so looking forward to getting that far

[Alan de Enfield]

No, I meant the original post where he mentioned a mains charger.

 

Without clarifying the situation it's unwise make assumptions or recommendations.

 

The OP is a 'she' not a 'he'

The only mention I can find of a charger in the OP are -" shall we buy one", and suggestion to "use a friends".

 

...........Or do we need to invest in a gennie/panels/charger all at once? .......

 

..........Someone suggested transporting the batteries to an on-land friend's house and charging them back up there,.......

 

So a reasonable assumption that she does not currently have a charger.

[Naughty Cal]

Is there even a realistic solution to this situation?

 

Work hours and alternator size rule out running the engine to generate power.

 

Works hours rule out running a generator to produce power.

 

Solar, whilst it might cope during the summer won't during the winter and it's back to square one but £200 odd out of pocket.

[MtB]

Micha, I suspect Alan's 'purgatory' comment was not meant negatively, I think he meant life would be purgatory without being able to spend hours on end every day browsing CWF!

[Paul C]

Might be worth seeking a better-than-cheapest/budget MPPT controller, for one which can do an "equaisation" charge, or has the option to user adjust the charging voltages (so you could custom set it to do an equalisation charge, not forgetting to set it back to its normal values afterwards.

 

I'm surprised nobody else has picked up on my point that because the engine has a manual (recoil) start in addition to the electric start, the normal guideline to separate battery banks in order to leave the ability to start the engine, is no longer valid, thus you can "double" the available battery capacity for the domestic side without needing to add another battery, I imagine space is something of a premium on that size boat.

[MtB]

Solar, whilst it might cope during the summer won't during the winter and it's back to square one but £200 odd out of pocket.

 

 

Given the OP's meagre electrical needs I think 200w of solar would cope admirably in winter.

[Micha Cook]

Might be worth seeking a better-than-cheapest/budget MPPT controller, for one which can do an "equaisation" charge, or has the option to user adjust the charging voltages (so you could custom set it to do an equalisation charge, not forgetting to set it back to its normal values afterwards.

 

I'm surprised nobody else has picked up on my point that because the engine has a manual (recoil) start in addition to the electric start, the normal guideline to separate battery banks in order to leave the ability to start the engine, is no longer valid, thus you can "double" the available battery capacity for the domestic side without needing to add another battery, I imagine space is something of a premium on that size boat.

Ahah yes it is, so that is a very good point, sorry for not quoting, I was replying to you when I said that we have been using the manual start since the power started to falter.

 

 

Is there even a realistic solution to this situation?

 

Work hours and alternator size rule out running the engine to generate power.

 

Works hours rule out running a generator to produce power.

 

Solar, whilst it might cope during the summer won't during the winter and it's back to square one but £200 odd out of pocket.

 

 

 

Given the OP's meagre electrical needs I think 200w of solar would cope admirably in winter.

 

I do hope so! From September my hours will change as I won't be commuting 4-6 hours a day, so hopefully that'll solve the generator/running engine conundrum

[Paul C]

 

Solar, whilst it might cope during the summer won't during the winter and it's back to square one but £200 odd out of pocket.

 

That's a very binary way of analysing what is a variable set of circumstances. In summer, electrical demands can be typically low while solar input can be high/near maximum. Conversely in winter, electrical demands may well be greater than a solar input. But in the months in between there will come a 'balance' point where the electrical need is exactly met by the solar power. One can install more solar power and this point comes earlier in the spring and later into autumn.

[Alan de Enfield]

Is there even a realistic solution to this situation?

 

Work hours and alternator size rule out running the engine to generate power.

 

Works hours rule out running a generator to produce power.

 

Solar, whilst it might cope during the summer won't during the winter and it's back to square one but £200 odd out of pocket.

 

There is a solution but it will be expensive & unpopular

 

Take a residential mooring with Electricity supply (example BWML Limehouse have a residential space for a 23 foot boat)

Buy a battery charger

 

Full battery every time you come home from work

[Paul C]

PS I think for year-round living on, a generator will still be needed but you can hold off its purchase for quite some time (ie Sept onwards). Also as has been said before, its worth doing a power audit so you KNOW the requirements.

[bizzard]

An old 12v dynamo and control box mounted on say a little Dexion frame with bicycle pedals to turn it would charge the battery whist sitting reading or watching the laptop. Or a small alternator.

Edited March 19, 2015 by bizzard

[Micha Cook]

Thank you, that sounds very sensible. Considering winter moorings as well.

 

An old 12v dynamo and control box mounted on say a little Dexion frame with bicycle pedals to turn it would charge the battery whist sitting reading or watching the laptop. Or a small alternator.

Ahah and sounds like great fun as well ahah.

[Alan de Enfield]

An old 12v dynamo and control box mounted on say a little Dexion frame with bicycle pedals to turn it would charge the battery whist sitting reading or watching the laptop. Or a small alternator.

 

I made this for the wife - she is ever so grateful as not only does it keep her fit for working the locks, it keeps her warm and avoids her having to go out to fetch the coal - and - she gets to watch Corry at the same time.

 

The things we do to please the 'little woman' !!!

 

[George94]

Solar is the way to go, as others have said. Small one for the starter batt, and more for domestic. For info, I have one 170w panel, and find it adequate for all months apart from dec, jan and feb, when I also run the engine a bit if it's been cloudy for a number of days. Therefore with your low power usage (I run a TV 3 or 4 hours a day) I'd think two of those Bimble 120w panels, coupled with their PWM controller would be the cheapest option. The bimble panels in question are 17v panels, so a PWM controller will likely give similar output than a MMPT. However, if you get solar panels with a voltage higher than 20 v (many are 36v) then the MMPT is a must, as it converts the extra voltage over 15v into amps. The PWM ones just discard the extra voltage. My 36v 170w panel for example gave a maximum of 2.7 A with a PWM, but gives up to 11A with the MMPT.

 

The simplest and cheapest solution would be to have both batteries in parallel and start the engine manually.

[Micha Cook]

Excellent!

[MtB]

 

The simplest and cheapest solution would be to have both batteries in parallel and start the engine manually.

 

No it wouldn't.

 

The OP demonstrates the root problem is not running the engine long enough to replace the battery charge being taken out, now they have reduced their running hours.

[Naughty Cal]

 

The simplest and cheapest solution would be to have both batteries in parallel and start the engine manually.

How does that solve the problem of them not generating enough power to charge the batteries?

 

All that does is give them two flat batteries!

[ROBDEN]

Just a thought.

 

Sterling do an "advanced digital regulator" for alternators to increase charging outputs.

 

Is there a company that do the same for outboard motors??

 

Rob....

[Naughty Cal]

Just a thought.

 

Sterling do an "advanced digital regulator" for alternators to increase charging outputs.

 

Is there a company that do the same for outboard motors??

 

Rob....

Even if there were they cant run the engine as they are home from work after 8pm!

[blackrose]

 

The OP is a 'she' not a 'he'

The only mention I can find of a charger in the OP are -" shall we buy one", and suggestion to "use a friends".

 

...........Or do we need to invest in a gennie/panels/charger all at once? .......

 

..........Someone suggested transporting the batteries to an on-land friend's house and charging them back up there,.......

 

So a reasonable assumption that she does not currently have a charger.

I'm pretty sure the OPs avatar said "male" yesterday when I first checked. It must have been changed since, or perhaps I'm thinking of a different thread?

 

Anyway, I never said that the OP currently had a mains charger, but since she said she was considering purchasing one I don't think it's necessarily a reasonable assumption that mains power isn't available.

 

You can make these assumptions if you want to, and you may be correct, but I would rather clarify the situation to be sure.

Edited March 19, 2015 by blackrose

[bizzard]

Even if there were they cant run the engine as they are home from work after 8pm!

Hence the peddle powered dynamo.