Soldering brushes.

[smileypete]

Good that the brushes are already soldered.

 

Clamping the braid closely between small pliers held shut with elaccy band should stop solder creeping up it.

 

If the plan is to get 14.8V, there might be a 14.8V version of reg if you're lucky.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 12, 2015 by smileypete

[trackman]

Re cost, I got a reg for an Iskra alternator last year for about £15 iirc. Not expensive and a useful spare to carry.

[ROBDEN]

Good that the brushes are already soldered.

 

Clamping the braid closely between small pliers held shut with elaccy band should stop solder creeping up it.

 

If the plan is to get 14.8V, there might be a 14.8V version of reg if you're lucky.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Thanks Pete.

 

I probably can get a reg for 14.8 volts.

The idea of using the dar is that, by placing the sense wire on a point where there is a voltage drop I can fool the reg into putting out 15.5 volts and then equalise the batteries when I think they need it.

After equalization, I can then return the wire directly to the batteries.

 

Rob….

[Alan Saunders]

I am, as usual, confused; there are two 'eyelet rivets' reinforcing the (insulating) plastic housing for mounting screws but there also appears to be a round terminal (lower left) which may must be where the connection should be made.

 

Whilst I have made some delicate joints like this one using large soldering irons intended for soldering seams in sheet metal I find the gas powered ones powerful enough for most jobs; for larger terminals (e.g. battery) a small gas torch is better. Basic rules are: everything must be scrupulously clean, bit and components nicely tinned, make a secure mechanical joint before soldering, solder tends to run toward the heat source (i.e. apply the iron at the furthest point ffom the heat sensitve component), use a heat-sink, wipe the tip on a damp sponge (usually bult in to the safety stand) between every joint.

 

Anyway, the 'ring terminal' must have a connection within the alternator and that will be the best place to make the new, permanent connection; with a crimped (uninsulated, to save space and ensure a good crimp) terminal; not to the brush block. Which only leaves the problem of leading the new connection outside of the alternator ithout risk of chafing.

 

Apologies if I have misunderstood the question.

[bizzard]

I am, as usual, confused; there are two 'eyelet rivets' reinforcing the (insulating) plastic housing for mounting screws but there also appears to be a round terminal (lower left) which may must be where the connection should be made.

 

Whilst I have made some delicate joints like this one using large soldering irons intended for soldering seams in sheet metal I find the gas powered ones powerful enough for most jobs; for larger terminals (e.g. battery) a small gas torch is better. Basic rules are: everything must be scrupulously clean, bit and components nicely tinned, make a secure mechanical joint before soldering, solder tends to run toward the heat source (i.e. apply the iron at the furthest point ffom the heat sensitve component), use a heat-sink, wipe the tip on a damp sponge (usually bult in to the safety stand) between every joint.

 

Anyway, the 'ring terminal' must have a connection within the alternator and that will be the best place to make the new, permanent connection; with a crimped (uninsulated, to save space and ensure a good crimp) terminal; not to the brush block. Which only leaves the problem of leading the new connection outside of the alternator ithout risk of chafing.

 

Apologies if I have misunderstood the question.

I think that the rearmost solder tag is a shadow of the uppermost one, so only one. ROBDEN, I think wants a cable on the brush with no external tag

[bizzard]

ROBDEM. Just to clarify. There are light compression springs which push on the brushes, are these springs conducting the current between the brushes and regulator or are there wires threaded through the centres of the springs to do this. An extra wire 20amp or more if the wire is to be a long one will have to pass through the springs centre if soldered to the brush and will need a largish and smooth exit hole from out of the brush box.

[ROBDEN]

I am, as usual, confused; there are two 'eyelet rivets' reinforcing the (insulating) plastic housing for mounting screws but there also appears to be a round terminal (lower left) which may must be where the connection should be made.

 

Whilst I have made some delicate joints like this one using large soldering irons intended for soldering seams in sheet metal I find the gas powered ones powerful enough for most jobs; for larger terminals (e.g. battery) a small gas torch is better. Basic rules are: everything must be scrupulously clean, bit and components nicely tinned, make a secure mechanical joint before soldering, solder tends to run toward the heat source (i.e. apply the iron at the furthest point ffom the heat sensitve component), use a heat-sink, wipe the tip on a damp sponge (usually bult in to the safety stand) between every joint.

 

Anyway, the 'ring terminal' must have a connection within the alternator and that will be the best place to make the new, permanent connection; with a crimped (uninsulated, to save space and ensure a good crimp) terminal; not to the brush block. Which only leaves the problem of leading the new connection outside of the alternator ithout risk of chafing.

 

Apologies if I have misunderstood the question.

The photo is not very clear.

If you paste this into your browser it may be better. I can't do linkys

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-12V-ALTERNATOR-VOLTAGE-REGULATOR-ISKRA-NEW-HOLLAND-CARGO-231044-/161070415693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25808b7f4d

 

Rob....

 

ROBDEM. Just to clarify. There are light compression springs which push on the brushes, are these springs conducting the current between the brushes and regulator or are there wires threaded through the centres of the springs to do this. An extra wire 20amp or more if the wire is to be a long one will have to pass through the springs centre if soldered to the brush and will need a largish and smooth exit hole from out of the brush box.

To be honest I don't know.

The destructions say to solder the wires to the top of the brushes.

 

You can't see the top of the brushes as they disappear into the plastic casing.

Edited February 12, 2015 by ROBDEN

[bizzard]

The photo is not very clear.

If you paste this into your browser it may be better. I can't do linkys

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-12V-ALTERNATOR-VOLTAGE-REGULATOR-ISKRA-NEW-HOLLAND-CARGO-231044-/161070415693?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25808b7f4d

 

Rob....

 

To be honest I don't know.

The destructions say to solder the wires to the top of the brushes.

Looking at that ebay link, there doesn't look like any exit hole for an extra cable in that brush box, a hole of about 5mm dia would be needed.

Are your sure that that terminal ring tag is not on the brush that you want? Because it would make life a lot easier. Either simply solder the wire to that tag or crimp or solder a ring terminal onto a wire and fix it to it with a wee nut and bolt. Are you certain there are not two of those ring tags, one for each brush? The photo only shows one side of the unit and I think its just a shadow of the just one in your very first photo.

[bizzard]

There is often braided flexible wires from the brushes through the springs to the regulator and its these wires when at full stretch that prevents the brushes from falling out of the brush box when removing or fitting it.

[ROBDEN]

Looking at that ebay link, there doesn't look like any exit hole for an extra cable in that brush box, a hole of about 5mm dia would be needed.

Are your sure that that terminal ring tag is not on the brush that you want? Because it would make life a lot easier. Either simply solder the wire to that tag or crimp or solder a ring terminal onto a wire and fix it to it with a wee nut and bolt. Are you certain there are not two of those ring tags, one for each brush? The photo only shows one side of the unit and I think its just a shadow of the just one in your very first photo.

The cable will sit between the reg and the top of the brush and be fed through the casing to the outside.

The front brush connects to the ring tag, (which is screwed down) which in turn connects to the D+ terminal so I'm pretty sure I need the other brush.

Rob....

There is often braided flexible wires from the brushes through the springs to the regulator and its these wires when at full stretch that prevents the brushes from falling out of the brush box when removing or fitting it.

I believe that the braided wire is soldered in place at the top of the plastic box and that is where the new wire has to be soldered.

Rob....

[bizzard]

The cable will sit between the reg and the top of the brush and be fed through the casing to the outside.

The front brush connects to the ring tag, (which is screwed down) which in turn connects to the D+ terminal so I'm pretty sure I need the other brush.

Rob....

In the photo I couldn't see any exit hole for a wire in the casing. We need someone like Sir Nibble to tell if that D+ tag would do the job. There would normally be a D+ terminal already on the back of the alternator body along with the other or others.

[ROBDEN]

In the photo I couldn't see any exit hole for a wire in the casing. We need someone like Sir Nibble to tell if that D+ tag would do the job. There would normally be a D+ terminal already on the back of the alternator body along with the other or others.

Using the front brush which connets to the D+ terminal will give out about 14 volts when running.

The other brush which I think is for the field control should give out 2-12 volts and that's the one I need.

Rob....

[bizzard]

The cable will sit between the reg and the top of the brush and be fed through the casing to the outside.

The front brush connects to the ring tag, (which is screwed down) which in turn connects to the D+ terminal so I'm pretty sure I need the other brush.

Rob....

I believe that the braided wire is soldered in place at the top of the plastic box and that is where the new wire has to be soldered.

Rob....

Ah, is this top soldered connection accessible, externally, solderable without trying to take it to bits? I take it you've not bought it yet, or removed the old one from the alternator to be able to inspect it..

[dmr]

Right, I'll say it again (I might be wrong....but) those pins coming out of the bottom of the regulator look like the best place to fix the wire.

 

Strip the insulation from some suitable stranded cable, form a little hook by bending the bared cable round a very small screwdriver or similar, tin with solder, feed hook round the required pin and maintain very gentle pressure, approach from opposite side with fine tipped iron.

 

...................Dave

[smileypete]

I reckon the back brush goes directly to one of the pins on the power transistor.

 

And if the rivets are drilled out and replaced with small screws, the whole lot may slide out making things easier.

 

So one of the pins may be more convenient to solder to and lead the wire out from.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[rogeriko]

I'm on the LLangollen at chirk near the aqueduct, I'm an electronics technician give me a call tomorrow. I'll PM my number

[dmr]

I'm on the LLangollen at chirk near the aqueduct, I'm an electronics technician give me a call tomorrow. I'll PM my number

 

Yesterday I was reading about soldering Ball Grid Arrays, so I guess a brush box presents very little challenge to an electronics man!

 

...........Dave

[rogeriko]

I wouldn't profess to doing that sort of computer board work but replacing capacitors on a multi-layer circuit board I can do.

[bizzard]

Right, I'll say it again (I might be wrong....but) those pins coming out of the bottom of the regulator look like the best place to fix the wire.

 

Strip the insulation from some suitable stranded cable, form a little hook by bending the bared cable round a very small screwdriver or similar, tin with solder, feed hook round the required pin and maintain very gentle pressure, approach from opposite side with fine tipped iron.

 

...................Dave

What pins, or do you mean what looks like the points of pips of solder that can just be detected at the top of the brush box. If they are on the other side of the unit for the brush we want and are large enough to solder the 20 odd amp cable which is what ROBDEN wants soldered to it, ok.

Edited February 12, 2015 by bizzard

[dmr]

What pins, or do you mean what looks like the points of pips of solder that can just be detected at the top of the brush box. If they are on the other side of the unit for the brush we want and are large enough to solder the 20 odd amp cable which is what ROBDEN wants soldered to it, ok.

 

If you follow the link in post 32 the photo shows what looks like 3 pins coming out of the bottom of the regulator down into the brush box.

I reckon one of these is the one to solder the wire to. Its not 20 amps, its only the field or rotor current so about 4 amps, so any light multistrand wire will be fine.

 

A slightly naughty approach would be to talk to Adverc who can provide instructions and photos detailing how to modify most common alternators.

 

...............Dave

[bizzard]

 

If you follow the link in post 32 the photo shows what looks like 3 pins coming out of the bottom of the regulator down into the brush box.

I reckon one of these is the one to solder the wire to. Its not 20 amps, its only the field or rotor current so about 4 amps, so any light multistrand wire will be fine.

 

A slightly naughty approach would be to talk to Adverc who can provide instructions and photos detailing how to modify most common alternators.

 

...............Dave

See what you mean now, 3 of them, I wonder. ROBDEN would need to do a little continuity test between the brushes and the pins with a meter to make sure which they're connected to. But I don't think he's got one yet. Why he wanted a 20 amp cable soldered on I don't know. The kind of heat to solder that gauge of wire to one of those pins would start to melt the plastic.

[ROBDEN]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

To dmr…

Thanks Dave that does look like the best way to go.

What concerns me though, is when I took the unit to the auto electrician and he said he couldn’t do it, I suggested using one of those pins.

He said that he wouldn’t advise it as they look like there may be a diode soldered in there as well. Those pins on my unit do not look as smooth as the ones in the photo. They look more ‘lumpy’ but maybe it’s just not very good soldering.

I’ll order a spare and have a play.

 

To bizzard….

It’s the Sterling unit and they say to fit a 15-20amp wire. It maybe just for strength as it has to go through the casing and join on to a wire which runs to the unit about 3 feet away.

It would be a lot easier to solder a thinner wire.

 

To rogeriko….

Thanks. I’ll phone later.

 

Rob….

[dmr]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

To dmr…

Thanks Dave that does look like the best way to go.

What concerns me though, is when I took the unit to the auto electrician and he said he couldn’t do it, I suggested using one of those pins.

He said that he wouldn’t advise it as they look like there may be a diode soldered in there as well. Those pins on my unit do not look as smooth as the ones in the photo. They look more ‘lumpy’ but maybe it’s just not very good soldering.

I’ll order a spare and have a play.

 

To bizzard….

It’s the Sterling unit and they say to fit a 15-20amp wire. It maybe just for strength as it has to go through the casing and join on to a wire which runs to the unit about 3 feet away.

It would be a lot easier to solder a thinner wire.

 

To rogeriko….

Thanks. I’ll phone later.

 

Rob….

 

Use a multimeter to check continuity between the pins and the brushes, do this in both directions and this will reveal any hidden diodes.

 

..........Dave

[SamKingfisher]

You could use a short length of smaller wire joined to the 20amp stuff if there is no other way. Shoot me if I'm wrong folks.

[onionbargee]

I don't get why you need to solder to brushes, they are usually made with the wires set in them.

 

It looks like a Bosch regulator to me. They certainly do.