Identifying a stove

[Neil Coker]

I've bought a boat in Worcester and she has now had some work done (engine serviced, stern-gland checked, new battery, bottom blacked) with more scheduled over the next four months. It has a stove fitted which I am not familiar with can't ask the previous owner as she unfortunately passed away). Also I committed the cardinal sin of not actually seeing the boat but trusting the survey and recommendation of some people. Did get it for a bargain though Can anyone advise me on what they think the stove is as I haven't a clue and am now wondering if its worth replacing with a multifuel stove (which I'm more familiar with). I'm not actually getting to the boat for another four weeks so any feedback gratefully received.

[Neil Coker]

Think I've managed to track down what it is. Appears to be a Refleks Diesel Stove. Has anyone any experience of this kind of stove?

[Southern Star]

Gosh, I've never seen a stove quite like that before. The heat shield on the flue looks exactly like the heat shields fitted to rear-of-cab exhaust stacks on mid-late 1980's articulated lorries, so much so that I'm guessing that's what it is. The photo is quite grainy but it's presumably a diesel heater?

[Neil Coker]

I believe it is a Refleks diesel Stove. Just been doing some research (Google is my friend) and amazed I've never heard of them before.

[magnetman]

There is a pinned topic on the forum about Refleks. They are very well respected stoves in the boat world. They can behave a bit oddly at times.

 

Personally I prefer solid fuel but for a natural draught diesel heater they are one of the best available.

The pinned topic here (you've probably found it anyway)

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=51727

[David Mack]

I've bought a boat in Worcester and she has now had some work done (engine serviced, stern-gland checked, new battery, bottom blacked) with more scheduled over the next four months. It has a stove fitted which I am not familiar with can't ask the previous owner as she unfortunately passed away). Also I committed the cardinal sin of not actually seeing the boat but trusting the survey and recommendation of some people. Did get it for a bargain though Can anyone advise me on what they think the stove is as I haven't a clue and am now wondering if its worth replacing with a multifuel stove (which I'm more familiar with). I'm not actually getting to the boat for another four weeks so any feedback gratefully received.

[magnetman]

Must say I can't actually see a picture in Neil Coker's post so was basing my comment on the OP saying its a Refleks...

 

The picture is just a ? On my phone screen

Edited December 21, 2014 by magnetman

[Neil Coker]

Not quite sure what I've done wrong regarding posting the picture as yesterday it showed in the post and now just shows a link to my photo bucket image.

[magnetman]

I can see it now on the laptop, the picture is here on the forum

 

its definitely a Refleks. Koukouvagia is the forum expert on these I believe.

 

If it were me I'd take it out and put a medium sized solid fuel stove in there, like a Becton Bunny or a Villager Puffin. Or if you want to be more adventurous one of the beautiful enamelled french or dutch stoves. (I'm a bit biased as my stove is an enamelled dutch cooking stove and I love it but they are a bit 'different' with not being modern etc etc and a bit less controllable possibly) Some of the small Godin stoves are very nice. It does depend on usage patterns and if you like or dislike coal generally, whether you want to burn a lot of wood etc etc .

If you prefer a diesel stove I don't think you'd be able to put something any better in there in terms of reliability although there are some diesel stoves with 'real flame' like the bubble and lockgate stoves which might be nicer to look at. I find the Refleks a bit "clinical" but its a matter of opinion.

I suppose a slight problem with a solid fuel stove install is it would push the stove itself more into the cabin and might block up the route to the doors a bit...

[onionbargee]

The wood work on the shelf unit, and behind the brass sheet is too close. Its a fire hazard. The timber will get super dryed out over time and may just spontaneously ignite, and its very hard to extinguish.

[trackman]

I'd be inclined to check what's behind all that stainless steel too. The steel will transmit heat efficiently to what is behind it and that too might catch fire if flammable. It would then be nearly impossible to put out, being behind all that metal. There should be suitable non combustible board behind the sheets.

The only saving grace is the behaviour of Reflex type stoves and the extensive heat shielding on the flue. The outer casing of the Reflex tends to act as heat shielding we find with ours. The gap between the outer and the burner pot causes convection currents that take a lot of the of the heat up and away, keeping the outer casing much cooler than, say a solid fuel stove would be. The shielding on the flue may have some similar effect.

Be safe though. Last winter boaters moored near us nearly lost their boat through a fire starting in timber behind fireproof board adjacent to their sf stove. They had a dreadful time hacking away the fireproof stuff enough to bring an extinguisher to bear effectively. Then they had to clear up the mess and repair the damage. No fun at all.

[koukouvagia]

The wood work on the shelf unit, and behind the brass sheet is too close. Its a fire hazard. The timber will get super dryed out over time and may just spontaneously ignite, and its very hard to extinguish.

This is not the case with a Refleks. The outer casing of never gets very hot because there is a double skin on these stoves. I would hazard a guess that the wooden shelf is barely warm. One of the great advantages is the stove's small footprint.

However, there are two things to watch. The flue pipe becomes very hot - hence the perforated shrouding in the picture. Also you have to be careful to leave a large air gap where the flue passes through cladding on a wall or ceiling. Refleks make special collars for this.

 

eta: I see Trackman is saying much the same.

 

I've just looked up the Refleks fitting instructions:

 

"The safey distance from the stove and chimney to combustible wood, fibreglass, etc., is min 10 cm. Cover the surroundings with stainless steel plating, which reflects the heat. If the distance is close to 10 cm, insulate with [an] air [gap] and non combustible material."

Edited December 22, 2014 by koukouvagia

[Neil Coker]

What I do know is that the boat was lived on by an old lady for the last nine years and who used the stove a great deal so it doesn't appear to have caused any damage. I rather like the idea of replacing it with a multifuel stove and have a lit of experience with a Vermont Vigilant about n my old house ( the one the ex owns now ) but they might be abit big on a boat. I am also looking into going for an aga with back boiler as a possible solution.

[magnetman]

Do you mean an Aga stove rather than a cooker?. an aga cooker is massive !! I have seen one but it was in a 100ft+ Dutch Luxemotor. Even a Rayburn cooker is quite large on a narrow boat although there are a lot of them about. I fitted one in a 55 footer - if its positioned sensibly its ok and does make the boat very comfortable but a lot of coal and quite a bit of ash to cart in and out.

For some reason the picture makes the boat look a bit small so I think for a replacement you'd be better looking at a Godin or something like that. Chappee made some nice looking small stoves as well which turn up on eBay pretty regularly. One of the problems with the French stoves is they tend to have rear exiting flue arrangements which makes it more difficult to securely fit a normal flue and also means more space is needed behind the fire. I prefer a fire where you can fit a top exit flue, for safety and ease of installation/servicing.

[onionbargee]

No timber, only rock wool insulation, and fireproof board , as well as the base it sits on, near the stove. Including where the flue passes through the roof. Don't even think about a towel rail above it, boat comes past and rocks yours, the towel falls down onto the stove, been there done that.

[magnetman]

Setting fire to a towel on the stove?

That is shocking bad form, hope it didn't cause damage ..

[Neil Coker]

I was thinking of an Aga four two which is a standard 600mm wide. Just missed out on one on EBlag as it went for an exorbitant price and they are quite hard to find. The boat is a standard width NB and with a small Aga fitted I could also have a multifuel stove for the living area, I like the warmth and the glow from a stove. Just not sure about a diesel stove although I have heard great things about their efficiency.

[luggsy]

Think I've managed to track down what it is. Appears to be a Refleks Diesel Stove. Has anyone any experience of this kind of stove?

I have one with the back boiler barley gets the radiators & water warm don't know why they sell them with the back boiler as I don't think they are fit for purpose , the stove its self is good

[Neil Coker]

One of the options I'm confiding is shown here

http://www.heritagecookers.co.uk/range_cooker_uno.htm

 

Anyone got any experience with these?

Considering not confiding flaming predictive!

[trackman]

I have one with the back boiler barley gets the radiators & water warm don't know why they sell them with the back boiler as I don't think they are fit for purpose , the stove its self is good

Ours does a pretty good job of heating our water and warming the boat with its one radiator. We prefer our solid fuel stove for heating when in the depths of winter I admit, but that's on cost grounds not effectiveness. When there's a need for quick heat, the Reflex wins every time. It's also easy to turn off quickly, so good if we don't need heating long term.

I wonder if yours is undersized for the task, or whether there is a problem with its installation. These stoves have an excellent reputation with fishing boats and other sea going commercial users not just canal boaters.

[magnetman]

I know.someone who put a Heritage range (the 2 ring one) i his wide bean and apparently its good.

£££

Its difficult to get impartial reviews of these sorts of thing as if you spend that much money you won't tell people its junk

 

Have you looked at Dickinsons stoves? If you are staying with diesel..

And wallas might do something also I think

[Neil Coker]

As I'm having the entire interior stripped out and starting from scratch I'm playing with a number of design layouts at the moment. I like the idea of having a decent size range onboard as its going to be my main home and for me the kitchen area is the most important (I like to cook) followed by a decent bed and somewhere to sit in that order. If I had the time I would do all the work myself but unfortunately working abroad effectively kills that plan. It is amazing how cheap oil, gas and solid fuel Aga's are going for, even factoring in a complete refurbishment and the delivery charges. I like the look of the heritage and the idea of of very quick heat up times but they do charge more than a wounded rhino so that may not be a viable option. Alternately I could go for a standard stainless LPL range and fit a bigger multifuel with back boiler for the heating. I'm going for only 12v onboard so am looking for a solution which complements my lack of mains power. I will take a look at the Dickinsons stoves as suggested, thanks.

[waterwitch]

We have a Rayburn on the tug (estuary/river tug not a NB).It's superb to cook on, heats water and warms the whole boat. I have had an Esse stove too and they are also very good.

The Rayburn was originally oil fired and very costly to run so my Dearly Beloved built a solid fuel furnace on the side of it. This will burn just about anything combustible. It's a big boat though so it would not be ideal on a narrowboat.

If you are thinking about a Heritage stove consider paying a visit to the showroom in Liskeard. The are very helpful and knowlegable about the stoves they build. The small Heritage is a beauty and if we had room on the NB I would have one.

 

Will you have a gas cooker for summer use? A NB with a cast iron stove will be a very hot boat in summer!

[magnetman]

Another one to look at is Wamsler. They do multifuel cookers about £1000 new and tgey turn up secondhand.

 

Have to say a Rayburn is very nice I had an MF (216} for 3 winters on a nb and I have been considering installing one on my barge but i'm not really into cooking and swmbo likes a gas cooker.

 

They are good to cook on with the graduated hot plate and insulated covers

 

A bit slow to warm the boat up from cold compared with a simple multifuel stove. Heating plumbing needs to be large bore or pumped. To me a pump introduces reliability issues. I like a heating system to be as close to 100% reliable as possible.

 

 

They are also cheap, and heavy about 300kg but thats no problem for a canal boat.

Edited December 28, 2014 by magnetman

[Neil Coker]

I've see a very nice Aga four two which is lpg (although abit pricy) but I'm fairly flexible on the final solution so looking around and review ing all the available options. I do take your point regarding the heat during summer. Mind you the average summer temperature where I work is high forties to low fifties so I'm used to sweating