BMC 1.5 spill rail - flexi return pipe

[StephenA]

The spill rail on our BMC 1.5 has sheared where the rigid pipe from the last injector goes down to the CAV fuel filter. The fuel filter has a little bit of wobble on it and we suspect that is what caused the problem.

 

Does anyone know of a spill rail where that return line terminates in a flexi pipe coupling and also has a banjo for the fuel filter that has two pipe couplings on it (rather than it being part of the spill rail)?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

I think the BSS now allows flexible spill rails IF they are marked as suitably fire resistant, the ends use proper fittings and you have non-return valves on the fuel tank end. I am very happy for a BSS inspector to correct me if this is wrong.

 

However certain marinisations of BMCs fit a stupidly thin bracket that attaches the filter to the cylinder head resulting in it waving about because of engine vibrations. Personally I would see about fitting a heavier bracket because eventually they snap but a friend of ours simply rammed a wooden wedge between the bracket and head and it seemed to be fine.

 

Please try to cure the problem rather than the symptom.

[RLWP]

I think the BSS now allows flexible spill rails IF they are marked as suitably fire resistant

 

The pipe must carry the correct BS number on it, and be readable. It makes constructing flexible spill pipes a bit of a pain as you need to have at least one section with the number readable

 

It would be better to fix the wobbly filter, otherwise you could end up with a wobbly filter and a mysterious air leak in the diesel system

 

Richard

[StephenA]

I'm sure it's down to the bracket on the fuel filter but the movement is minute - the spill rail sheared on the bit that was work hardened and we ended up with fuel sprayed all over the engine. We used to have a flexi rail but had to replace it because of the labelling issue

[Phil Ambrose]

On my previous boat the spill rail was in fact plastic, so I had to change it for the BSS. My local boatyard made up a flexi one for me,(rubber pipe with marking) and this sailed through at test time.

Phil

[StephenA]

Has anyone fitted this conversion kit from Calcutt :

 

http://www.calcuttboatsshop.com/shop/article_CKSPILLKIT1.5/SPILL-RAIL-KIT-BMC-1.5.html

 

 

And if so what the heck is the "banjo with stand pipe" used for?

 

 

It looks like it's designed to take a push fit pipe (with clip) but I thought you couldn't use those. I need a banjo that ends in a male thread to connect the return line to the tank to.

Edited January 6, 2015 by StephenA

[RLWP]

To be absolutely certain I'd have to look it up. From memory, because there's a barb on that stub, you can use push fit pipes and clips as a spill back to the tank. It's straight pipes under push on pipes and jubilee clips that is the problem

 

Richard

[StephenA]

So that would mean replacing the fuel return line to the tank which is armoured (and BSS marked) and has threaded ends if I can't find a banjo to male thread part.

 

 

The BSS says:

 

Fuel line connections must be screwed, compression, cone, brazed or flanged.

Flexible fuel hose connections must either be pre-made end fittings on hose assemblies, or hose clips/clamps onto hose nozzles or formed pipe-ends.

 

 

So I guess that explains the stand pipe.

[RLWP]

Yep, thanks for finding that. The banjo pipe has a formed end

 

Richard

[StephenA]

Does anyone know if anyone does a banjo with an 1/8" threaded return port which I can use instead of the standpipe - as that kit means you have to throw away your existing fuel return pipe when you move from an old 1.5 spill rail (with the threaded final double port banjo) to a new 1.5/1.8 with the single port banjo.

[Phil Ambrose]

As I mentioned above the Yard that made up my flexi spill rail made it up with jubilee clips.

Phil

[StephenA]

As I mentioned above the Yard that made up my flexi spill rail made it up with jubilee clips.

Phil

 

Yes but that doesn't solve the problem with the fuel return line to the tank which has only recently been replaced. Ideally I want to be able to drop in a pre-engineered solution that doesn't involve me replacing lengths of perfectly good hose. Also I really do not like jubilee clips on fuel lines (I don't really like them on water lines).

[RLWP]

Can you photograph what you have, just so I'm clear

 

Richard

[StephenA]

As the boat is 100 miles away I can't.

 

What we currently have is:

 

A 5 banjo spill rail with the 5th banjo (the one for the fuel filter which is a bigger banjo) having an exit pipe that ends in a standard 1/8" threaded connection which the fuel return line to the tank screws onto.

 

Basically one of these:

 

http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/leak-off-rails-and-pipes/fuel-injector-leak-off-spill-rail-for-bmc-1500-and-1800-diesel-131099

 

Now all anyone sells is

 

http://www.calcuttboatsshop.com/shop/article_A3ARG1100A/SPILL-RAIL-BMC-1.8.html

 

 

Where all 5 banjos are the same size and the one for the fuel filter has no secondary port. This is where the Calcutt converter kit comes in and provides the "Stand Pipe" as the feed back to the tank......

Edited January 6, 2015 by StephenA

[RLWP]

So, you want the BSP male thread part fitting onto the banjo bolt of the converter kit?

 

Richard

 

MORE: How about this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Venhill-M10-20-deg-M10-banjo-20-deg-left-to-1-8bsp-Quick-build-brake-line-system-/181622888807?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a49915967

Edited January 6, 2015 by RLWP

[StephenA]

So, you want the BSP male thread part fitting onto the banjo bolt of the converter kit?

 

Richard

 

Yes - so a BSP Male thread banjo instead of a stand pipe....

[RLWP]

Will that thingy do the job?

 

Just in case, this thingy: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Venhill-M10-20-deg-M10-banjo-20-deg-left-to-1-8bsp-Quick-build-brake-line-system-/181622888807?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a49915967

 

Richard

[StephenA]

It probably would - I think the new spill rails have a smaller 5th banjo (the same size as the injectors) which is why the calcutt kit comes with an adaptor for the fuel filter (to allow a smaller double height banjo bolt to be used).

[RLWP]

I'll have a look for you tomorrow, I have one of the BMC spill rails in the workshop.

 

Richard

Curiosity got the better of me, the hole in the banjo for the fuel filter is 5/16" or 8mm

 

Richard

 

MORE: This might do: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Venhill-M8-8mm-chrome-banjo-to-1-8-bsp-connection-Quick-build-brake-line-system-/181611043959?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item2a48dc9c77

Edited January 6, 2015 by RLWP

[StephenA]

As the Calcutt Kit contains 8mm washers that suggests that all the banjos are 8mm so that ebay item might be the answer - so I'd just get the kit (with a new rail) and that banjo from Ebay.

 

I'm going to be on the boat in a couple of weeks so I'll probably strip things down or measure them up

 

Thanks for digging round for me Richard.

[RLWP]

No problem Stephen

 

Richard

[TNLI]

On 04/11/2014 at 07:09, StephenA said:

The spill rail on our BMC 1.5 has sheared where the rigid pipe from the last injector goes down to the CAV fuel filter. The fuel filter has a little bit of wobble on it and we suspect that is what caused the problem.

 

Does anyone know of a spill rail where that return line terminates in a flexi pipe coupling and also has a banjo for the fuel filter that has two pipe couplings on it (rather than it being part of the spill rail)?

 

 

Yep, just had exactly the same spill rail failure right at the last injector. ASAP do make a kit for the 1.8 and an adapter kit for the 1.9. Calcutt seem to do the same, BUT, they don't seem to answer e mails too often, so I've lost interest in that company.

 

This company seem to do a kit for both the BMC 1.5 and 1.8:

The Boatyard (ukboatyard.uk)

BMC 1.5 / 1.8 Diesel Engine Spill Rail

• Product Code: MBMCSPILLRAIL1.51.8
• Availability: In Stock

• £48.60

• Ex Tax: £40.50
• Price in Loyalty Points: 4860

 

 

Anyone know if they are any good, or what exactly the kit includes ??

Edited January 17, 2022 by TNLI

[TNLI]

On 06/01/2015 at 20:14, Phil Ambrose said:

As I mentioned above the Yard that made up my flexi spill rail made it up with jubilee clips.

Phil

 

Yep, it looks like that is what I'm going to have to do. I've already got some real nice braided stainless hose and genuine Jubilee clips, so it's just a matter of figuring out who to buy the other bits from. My very old BMC that was fully sized and dumped after spending around a year on the bottom, had an almost new looking spill rail with hoses to link the 4 injectors to the secondary dreaded CAV 296.

 

[TNLI]

A few links for those BMC owners that need to rebuild a spill off fuel rail for the 4 injectors.

 

End of rail Banjo:

Banjo Bolt Banjo Union Fuel Hose Tail Brake Line fittings Petrol Diesel Joiner | eBay

 

Next 3 injector top Banjos:

Double two way fuel diesal PLAIN TAIL BANJO EYE UNION LINE HOSE FITTINGS steel | eBay

 

You can probably reuse the final section of pipe and inline banjo for the CAV 296 filter, BUT if that part is kaput you are going to have an issue finding the parts, as although the bigger 10mm/6mm banjo is available I did not see the one way screw in valve listed.

Double two way fuel diesal PLAIN TAIL BANJO EYE UNION LINE HOSE FITTINGS steel | eBay (BUT you need to select 10mm and the fuel line ID size, which is normally 4mm.

 

CAV 296 screw in fitting:

Not found!

 

Total cost around 35 quid, but ASAP will charge you around 80 for a full Copper set, and Calcutta Boats 50 quid. Calcutta did reply to my enquiry and said the cost of the same parts I've ordered was 50 quid plus postage, but they were out of stock for some reason.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by TNLI

[StephenA]

44 minutes ago, TNLI said:

A few links for those BMC owners that need to rebuild a spill off fuel rail for the 4 injectors.

 

End of rail Banjo:

Banjo Bolt Banjo Union Fuel Hose Tail Brake Line fittings Petrol Diesel Joiner | eBay

 

Next 3 injector top Banjos:

Double two way fuel diesal PLAIN TAIL BANJO EYE UNION LINE HOSE FITTINGS steel | eBay

 

You can probably reuse the final section of pipe and inline banjo for the CAV 296 filter, BUT if that part is kaput you are going to have an issue finding the parts, as although the bigger 10mm/6mm banjo is available I did not see the one way screw in valve listed.

Double two way fuel diesal PLAIN TAIL BANJO EYE UNION LINE HOSE FITTINGS steel | eBay (BUT you need to select 10mm and the fuel line ID size, which is normally 4mm.

 

CAV 296 screw in fitting:

Not found!

 

Total cost around 35 quid, but ASAP will charge you around 80 for a full Copper set, and Calcutta Boats 50 quid. Calcutta did reply to my enquiry and said the cost of the same parts I've ordered was 50 quid plus postage, but they were out of stock for some reason.

 

 

 

 

apart from the fact that some BMC 1.5 like ours have a double pipe banjo on the top of the CAV - with a threaded connector for the fuel return line.  We got a company somewhere on the south coast (I think) to rebujild it the whole spill rail and provide suitable lengths of flexi hose (with BS markings on them)..  Don't ask me who or the cost - it was several years ago.