Outback FM 60 Controller dump load

[Ex- Member]

Hello,

 

Haven't had chance to do the wiring diagrams yet, but had a google last night for further information..

 

This forum thread is well worth a read.

 

One thing I did note is that if you go for the recommended solid state relay route so the Outback can adjust the dump load then the SSR will get hot so a heat sink is a must. Here's a few, but they seem to be on the too cheap side!

 

Here's another source of SSR's - http://www.vertex-qis.co.uk/Body_Pages/SSR/ssr_page.html

 

Thanks Robbo, I've read the thread. I'm also slowly getting to grips with the Outback Figure 27 Wiring diagram and things are beginning to simplify I think! LOL The way my set up is configured matches the Outback diagram with regard to shunts posts & switches, so might get my head around this eventually. I might even post a diagram of how I think it should be done and members could correct any errors.

[Ex- Member]

Ok I've now applied the little brain power I possess with regard to elastictrickery.

 

I actually feel a bit stupid as the diagram now seems much easier to understand than it did a few weeks ago, although some helpful posts have certainly helped, so thank you all.

 

Now it seems all to simple, Im probably missing something though LOL

 

The Outback Diagram 27 with regard to the general wiring of our battery bank, Inverter, shunt, posts switches and fusing is identical to our set up as it stands now. So logic would dictate that I just need to add some components and connect them up as in the diagram.

 

I have overlaid in thick pen where I think new wiring will be required and hand written with pointers where I think new components are required. This is now looking very simple if I'm indeed correct.

 

Size of cabling would be helpful, To connect to calorifier element would require 2.8m of cable. The neg cable just 1m

 

I could also do with finding a 12v element with a 2.25 inch bsp thread.

 

Edited July 2, 2014 by Julynian

[Robbo]

Your overlays for the diagram are correct.

 

IMHO I would use your current AC element with a SSR (and heatsink) and see how it goes.

[Ex- Member]

Your overlays for the diagram are correct.

 

IMHO I would use your current AC element with a SSR (and heatsink) and see how it goes.

 

Well the trouble finding a 12v element easy to fit I'm beginning to think the same LOL

 

Is that method pretty easy to fit Robbo? I'll lok it up in the Outback manual in the meantime, thanks for your help with this, and other posters of course

[Paul G2]

Your overlays for the diagram are correct.

 

IMHO I would use your current AC element with a SSR (and heatsink) and see how it goes.

 

Are you saying that you think the existing 240V ac element might work if connected to 12V dc? (Real question. I've never thought about this before, but I suppose it might work. Have you ever tried it?)

[leeco]

Very interesting thread.

 

I have just ordered a FM80 and 500w of solar to go with my 240w solar and my boiler has a drain plug at the back.

[Robbo]

 

Are you saying that you think the existing 240V ac element might work if connected to 12V dc? (Real question. I've never thought about this before, but I suppose it might work. Have you ever tried it?)

 

No, keep the AC element on AC. The SSR will need to be a DC input, AC output relay. The only downside is that you'll need your inverter on. - The only reason that this is not recommended usually is that if the inverter fails the dump load goes which may be an issue for wind turbines.

 

An AC element will work on DC but the low voltage will make the wattage next to useless.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Robbo

[Robbo]

 

Well the trouble finding a 12v element easy to fit I'm beginning to think the same LOL

 

Is that method pretty easy to fit Robbo? I'll lok it up in the Outback manual in the meantime, thanks for your help with this, and other posters of course

 

It is easy to fit, if you want to just give it a try before permanently wiring you just need to add the relay on the Live (brown) cable, like a switch (which a relay is of course). If I was permanently wiring I would use a Double Pole on-off-on switch so you could manually switch on the element.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Robbo

[Ex- Member]

 

It is easy to fit, if you want to just give it a try before permanently wiring you just need to add the relay on the Live (brown) cable, like a switch (which a relay is of course). If I was permanently wiring I would use a Double Pole on-off-on switch so you could manually switch on the element.

 

Ok so would this do the job.

 

DC input, AC output relay.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-3-32V-Input-AC-24-480V-Output-60A-DIN-Rail-Mount-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-60D-/190836740054?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c6ec18fd6

 

So it would be Outback Aux + & - to the relay. Where would I connect it to the Brown 240v live though.

[Robbo]

 

Ok so would this do the job.

 

DC input, AC output relay.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-3-32V-Input-AC-24-480V-Output-60A-DIN-Rail-Mount-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-60D-/190836740054?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item2c6ec18fd6

 

So it would be Outback Aux + & - to the relay. Where would I connect it to the Brown 240v live though.

 

It's the right spec, but I would source one that has a heat sink (the bigger the better) and located in the UK And yep, the brown live cable, wired as you would a switch - remember to isolate it first, 240v isn't healthy for us!

 

A call to these guys may be better to source the relay ; http://www.vertex-qis.co.uk/Body_Pages/SSR/ssr_page.html

Edited July 2, 2014 by Robbo

[Paul G2]

 

No, keep the AC element on AC. The SSR will need to be a DC input, AC output relay. The only downside is that you'll need your inverter on. -

 

Julynian has said that he keeps the inverter on 24/7, so that's not an issue.

 

However, if the batteries are full and the controller senses excess PV current then it switches on the aux load. If that load then draws current from the inverter, wouldn't that tell the controller that there is no longer any excess power and then the controller would shut of the aux load?

[Ex- Member]

 

It's the right spec, but I would source one that has a heat sink (the bigger the better) and located in the UK And yep, the brown live cable, wired as you would a switch - remember to isolate it first, 240v isn't healthy for us!

 

A call to these guys may be better to source the relay ; http://www.vertex-qis.co.uk/Body_Pages/SSR/ssr_page.html

 

Don't worry I do know that much about AC 240 LOL especially after a few shocks LOL

 

I'll get in touch with them if I go that route, I do tend to sway toward the 12v version, having said that it's not going to cost too much to try the AC version so might well do so.

 

Cheers Robbo much appreciated.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Julynian

[ditchcrawler]

 

Julynian has said that he keeps the inverter on 24/7, so that's not an issue.

 

However, if the batteries are full and the controller senses excess PV current then it switches on the aux load. If that load then draws current from the inverter, wouldn't that tell the controller that there is no longer any excess power and then the controller would shut of the aux load?

Isn't that how it works

[Paul G2]

Isn't that how it works

 

I'm asking because I'm not sure. The system is designed to divert 12V PV power when the batteries are full and that PV power is no longer needed for charging/powering the inverter load. When there is excess PV power, the controller switches on the aux load. If the aux load then draws power from the inverter to power the heater element, it seems that that would then tell the controller that there is no longer any excess power (because the excess power is now being used by the heater element via the inverter), so the controller would then switch off the aux load, which would then result in there being excess power, which would tell the controller to turn on the aux load, which would then result in no more excess power (because the excess power is now being used by the heater element via the inverter), which would then tell the controller to turn off the aux load.... ad infinitum.

[Iain_S]

 

(snip) There's no reducer I can find that will reduce from 2.5 inch to 1 inch though. I think these 12v elements are designed to go through the side of immersion heaters which do usually have 1" bsp connections I believe.

 

8410 any good?

 

Iain

[Ex- Member]

 

8410 any good?

 

Iain

 

Stupidly I seem to have stated 2.5 inch whereas they're actually 2.25 so not quite, how annoying is that though, would have been perfek.

 

Apologies for getting that wrong.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Julynian

[smileypete]

If the inverter is on all the time and it's PSW how about use a 1kW dimmer to tailor the heat input of the immersion?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Robbo]

 

Julynian has said that he keeps the inverter on 24/7, so that's not an issue.

 

However, if the batteries are full and the controller senses excess PV current then it switches on the aux load. If that load then draws current from the inverter, wouldn't that tell the controller that there is no longer any excess power and then the controller would shut of the aux load?

Remember the outback with a SSR and resistive load can adjust how much load there is.

 

I'm guessing how it works is that the outback will start at 100% load and then reduce it according to how much power is excess. It may also start at 0% and increase the load.

If the inverter is on all the time and it's PSW how about use a 1kW dimmer to tailor the heat input of the immersion?

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Not needed, the Outback has it built in.

[Ex- Member]

Remember the outback with a SSR and resistive load can adjust how much load there is.

 

I'm guessing how it works is that the outback will start at 100% load and then reduce it according to how much power is excess. It may also start at 0% and increase the load.

 

Not needed, the Outback has it built in.

 

 

With the AC version Robbo, where is it best to situate the relay for the brown AC live or doesn't it matter? I guess I then leave the immersion element left switched on, ant let the relay do it's stuff.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Julynian

[Gypsey_Kings]

With the AC version - How fast will the SSR be switching the rather heavy load of a 1KW element on & off...and more importantly, can the Sterling inverter handle this?

 

[Gypsey_Kings]

Assuming this is what is being talked about ....

.

[leeco]

Assuming this is what is being talked about ....

.

Wouldn't this still take power from the battery bank?

[Paul G2]

With the AC version - How fast will the SSR be switching the rather heavy load of a 1KW element on & off...and more importantly, can the Sterling inverter handle this?

 

 

That was the question I had. Robbo thinks the unit is built to accommodate this, and Robbo seems to be familiar with the workings of the unit. Doing it with the 240V would certainly simplify things. If it was hooked up that way and didn't work well, the worst that would happen is that it wouldn't work well.

Assuming this is what is being talked about ....

.

 

Essentially correct except that the fuse would only be on the hot line, not the hot and neutral.

Wouldn't this still take power from the battery bank?

 

See Robbo's post #68

[leeco]

I think I get it now but would I have to send another circuit to the boiler? One going to the relay and one going to a switch to bypass the relay if I wanted to use the boiler as normal?

[Paul G2]

I think I get it now but would I have to send another circuit to the boiler? One going to the relay and one going to a switch to bypass the relay if I wanted to use the boiler as normal?

 

Not necessarily an additional circuit. You could just splice into the hot line on both sides of the relay and install a switch in that line. That would effectively bypass the relay.