BWML - why all the bad press

[luctor et emergo]

 

So you think that CART shouldn't be a charity?

 

Or you think that they should run their businesses in a manner that is non-commercial?

 

Or you think that they should be a charity, and should run their businesses to maximise profit, whilst still treating people fairly?

 

I have to say that I see nothing wrong with the last approach. Let's get John Lewis to run the waterways.

I answered your question.

 

The body maintaining the canal can be a charity. The body enforcing the rules, should be a separate body, if only to separate the two functions in the eyes of the public, who don't understand the fine nuances of charity law and definitions. bwml should be separate, and pay CRT as other marinas do.

 

To be honest, I think the whole set up stinks like an abattoir in high summer, BW was only turned into an charity to get it of the guberment's books. BWML is a clever way of moving money about, and not to the canals interest. When they admit that the proletariat are not going to 'donate' enough money, the captive parties will be squeezed until they bleed. And guess who that is?

[David Schweizer]

 

And I can't be doing with total fabrications: "one of the conditions of being a Trust is that they are unlikely to employ a sigificant number of staff" "another condition is that they do not carry out any kind of business".

 

 

[George94]

OK, David, I concede defeat. Like Michael Howard on Newsnight, you have evinced a marvellous ability to evade a straight question. Like Michael Howard, of course, you had no acceptable answer to give.

 

I leave you with the thought that whilst you are no wiser, you are at least better informed.

 

[magnetman]

So does this mean that CRT are in fact a charitable monopoly?

 

Or a monopoly charity?

[George94]

I answered your question.

 

The body maintaining the canal can be a charity. The body enforcing the rules, should be a separate body, if only to separate the two functions in the eyes of the public, who don't understand the fine nuances of charity law and definitions. bwml should be separate, and pay CRT as other marinas do.

 

To be honest, I think the whole set up stinks like an abattoir in high summer, BW was only turned into an charity to get it of the guberment's books. BWML is a clever way of moving money about, and not to the canals interest. When they admit that the proletariat are not going to 'donate' enough money, the captive parties will be squeezed until they bleed. And guess who that is?

 

Because CART is a charity, the money from BWML has to either stay in BWML (which could finance more marinas) or go to CART by way of dividend. It can't disappear, so I think your concern there is misplaced.

 

But I fully agree that financing the canals properly is a huge concern. I think the government's hope was that by making CART a charity, a huge untapped well of money would become available. After all, the National Trust seems to do all right. And David is I am sure correct to say that so far CART's performance in raising money as a charity hasn't borne much fruit.

 

The problem is that whilst people may be happy to pay £15.00 a time to visit an old house, they aren't going to shell out to walk along a towpath. Thanks to the Ramblers, being able to walk where you will is seen as an inalienable right.

 

I wish I knew the answer. But I don't think the legal/charitable structure is the problem. Making CART more efficient would help, and getting it to promote itself better would also help. But there's a steep hill to climb.

So does this mean that CRT are in fact a charitable monopoly?

 

Or a monopoly charity?

 

Do I detect the signs of a pot being stirred?

Edited April 24, 2014 by George94

[Hawkmoth]

 

 

I have to say that I see nothing wrong with the last approach. Let's get John Lewis to run the waterways.

If they could do as good a job on the waterways as they have on the high street it would be great!

Bob

[magnetman]

Maybe the long term plan is to get CRT to fail so the canal system can be put up for sale at some point. Obviously as parts not a whole network. after all who'd buy the K&A

[luctor et emergo]

Maybe the long term plan is to get CRT to fail so the canal system can be put up for sale at some point. Obviously as parts not a whole network. after all who'd buy the K&A

They can sell the K&A in stretches, between the broken locks.

[David Schweizer]

OK, David, I concede defeat. Like Michael Howard on Newsnight, you have evinced a marvellous ability to evade a straight question. Like Michael Howard, of course, you had no acceptable answer to give.

 

I leave you with the thought that whilst you are no wiser, you are at least better informed.

 

 

 

How insulting.

 

Better to have not read it and just said nothing. In my opinion you're beginning to making yourself look like an arse.

 

MtB

 

Congratulations, I can now announce that you are to be awarded the:-

 

[George94]

Maybe the long term plan is to get CRT to fail so the canal system can be put up for sale at some point. Obviously as parts not a whole network. after all who'd buy the K&A

 

I suspect they just thought that they would bat it into the long grass for 15 years, and by then they will be retired and it'll be somebody else's problem.

 

If CART can't increase their revenues, I suspect they will start to close the less popular, or more expensive, canals, and death will come slowly and painfully by a thousand cuts.

 

 

Congratulations, I can now announce that you are to be awarded the:-

 

 

Grow up, David.

[Ronniesonic]

 

I suspect they just thought that they would bat it into the long grass for 15 years, and by then they will be retired and it'll be somebody else's problem.

 

If CART can't increase their revenues, I suspect they will start to close the less popular, or more expensive, canals, and death will come slowly and painfully by a thousand cuts.

 

Grow up, David.

 

 

George- With the greatest respect, I am as thick as pigshit & can fully understand what others have stated. Therefore, I suggest a reduction in Coffee & some time better spent re-decorating the bridge you reside under.

[George94]

 

 

George- With the greatest respect, I am as thick as pigshit & can fully understand what others have stated. Therefore, I suggest a reduction in Coffee & some time better spent re-decorating the bridge you reside under.

 

Ronnie, I concur with your self-assessment.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

There is a suggestion that, in recent years, some investment is being returned as profit to hide under-performance.

 

What do you mean by the words in red? How can "investment" be "returned as profit"?

 

It is not helpful to discuss BWML's return on investment until all investments have reached full potential, which in the case of a marina will take at least two or three years. As BMWL have been adding marinas as they go along, the situation is still fluid. You would need to look at individual marinas after four years to get a proper view. FOI request, anybody?

 

BTW, there are an awful lot of companies that have not done very well over the past few years. Until incomes recover to pre-2007 levels, many businesses in the leisure industry are liable to be under-performing against original expectations.

I am sorry that you are unable to understand what I wrote.

 

BW/CaRT is the sole shareholder of BWML which is a limited company. BW/CaRT invests in BWML by way of share purchase.

 

BWML returns profit by way of dividend on shares.

 

Some people suggest that since 2011 (the first time that BWML has declared a dividend) some of CaRT's investment has not been used for its intended purpose but rather to bump up the dividend returned such that it looks like BWML's performance is improving year on year.

 

Whilst BW has admitted financial irregularities regarding BWML in the past, I suspect the truth will only be known if investment ceases.

You say -

It is not helpful to discuss BWML's return on investment until all investments have reached full potential, which in the case of a marina will take at least two or three years.

It is worth pointing out that that the £0.7m shortfall last year is not against some plan concocted ten years ago but rather against CaRT's three year plan from just over a year ago which was revised down from its first three year plan produced in mid 2012.

As regards FOI requests, CaRT published its 2012-2015 Operational plan at the request of its Trustees. That plan shows that BWML was expected to return £1,363,000 to CaRT last year (2013/14).

Following CaRT's failure to publish its 2013-2016 Operational plan, I made a FOIA request.. This shows that the expected return was revised downwards to £1,259,000.

I have no reason to doubt that BWML are £0.7m short of plan as it has come from two different sources.

 

We also have the concerns being expressed by the Trustees and Derek Newman's resignation.

[George94]

 

I am sorry that you are unable to understand what I wrote.

 

BW/CaRT is the sole shareholder of BWML which is a limited company. BW/CaRT invests in BWML by way of share purchase.

 

BWML returns profit by way of dividend on shares.

 

Some people suggest that since 2011 (the first time that BWML has declared a dividend) some of CaRT's investment has not been used for its intended purpose but rather to bump up the dividend returned such that it looks like BWML's performance is improving year on year.

 

Whilst BW has admitted financial irregularities regarding BWML in the past, I suspect the truth will only be known if investment ceases.

You say -

It is not helpful to discuss BWML's return on investment until all investments have reached full potential, which in the case of a marina will take at least two or three years.

It is worth pointing out that that the £0.7m shortfall last year is not against some plan concocted ten years ago but rather against CaRT's three year plan from just over a year ago which was revised down from its first three year plan produced in mid 2012.

As regards FOI requests, CaRT published its 2012-2015 Operational plan at the request of its Trustees. That plan shows that BWML was expected to return £1,363,000 to CaRT last year (2013/14).

Following CaRT's failure to publish its 2013-2016 Operational plan, I made a FOIA request.. This shows that the expected return was revised downwards to £1,259,000.

I have no reason to doubt that BWML are £0.7m short of plan as it has come from two different sources.

 

We also have the concerns being expressed by the Trustees and Derek Newman's resignation.

 

 

First, I have no idea what you mean by "some of CART's investment". There is no way that BWML can pay out a dividend to CART unless it has made profits to cover the dividend. It would require a massive fraud to inflate profits (which would then be subject to tax) in order to increase the dividend, so I don't think this is at all likely.

 

As for the remainder of your post, I note that in their latest published accounts BWML claimed they were making a return on capital employed of over 7%, which is not disastrous.

 

It is not unknown for directors of holding companies to set unachievable and frankly stupid targets for their subsidiaries, and it may be that that has happened here.

[luctor et emergo]

 

First, I have no idea what you mean by "some of CART's investment". There is no way that BWML can pay out a dividend to CART unless it has made profits to cover the dividend. It would require a massive fraud to inflate profits (which would then be subject to tax) in order to increase the dividend, so I don't think this is at all likely.

 

As for the remainder of your post, I note that in their latest published accounts BWML claimed they were making a return on capital employed of over 7%, which is not disastrous.

 

It is not unknown for directors of holding companies to set unachievable and frankly stupid targets for their subsidiaries, and it may be that that has happened here.

Bless.

[MtB]

 

It is worth pointing out that that the £0.7m shortfall last year is not against some plan concocted ten years ago but rather against CaRT's three year plan from just over a year ago which was revised down from its first three year plan produced in mid 2012.

As regards FOI requests, CaRT published its 2012-2015 Operational plan at the request of its Trustees. That plan shows that BWML was expected to return £1,363,000 to CaRT last year (2013/14).

Following CaRT's failure to publish its 2013-2016 Operational plan, I made a FOIA request.. This shows that the expected return was revised downwards to £1,259,000.

I have no reason to doubt that BWML are £0.7m short of plan as it has come from two different sources.

 

We also have the concerns being expressed by the Trustees and Derek Newman's resignation.

 

 

I find myself wondering if Paul Lillie has been helping BWML produce their forecasts...

 

 

MtB

[Ten]

Charity shops are great. I've got 2 infants and charity shops have saved us countless beer tokens over the last few years.

 

 

Hehehe. I love charity shops too! Any around Limehouse? Thanks

[magnetman]

Chrisp street market (15 minute walk) and there is one at Watney market which is towards whitechaphell (15 -20min walk) distances from Limehouse basin/DLR bridge area.

 

I got a nice boating blazer still with tags from the Chrisp street charity for £7.50. £100+ to buy 'new'

 

 

Sorry to be off topic

[PaulG]

Some people suggest that since 2011 (the first time that BWML has declared a dividend) some of CaRT's investment has not been used for its intended purpose but rather to bump up the dividend returned such that it looks like BWML's performance is improving year on year.

This suggestion is, with the greatest of respect, total b*ll*cks.

 

CRT "investment" is a share purchase. It is what it is. There is no "intended purpose" in a share purchase.

 

How does a share issue affect BWML's ability to declare dividends?

 

I doesn't.

 

Under the Companies Act 2006 a dividend may only be declared if there are sufficient distributable reserves.

[Guest]

As to the original question.

 

We moored in a small BWML marina for a year. (Lemonroyd in Yorkshire). Marie who was on site was one of the most helpful people you are likely to ever meet.

 

In addition the lady that cleaned the newly built small facility block kept it spotlessly clean.

 

I also found the staff at 'head office' helpful.

 

However when things needed fixing it seemed to take an age to get done, I put this down to the apathy of more senior staff responsible for organising and arranging stuff.

[George94]

Bless.

 

Translation of "Bless" - "My name is Luctor. I haven't got a clue what all this means, so I will just say something fatuous".

 

You can't pay a dividend unless you have made some profits. You can't magically transform share capital or loans into profit. If you did try to, you'd end up behind bars. And you would have incurred a corporation tax liability.

 

I see that PaulG has made more or less the same point.

[lynneaboutloughborough]

Oi, I'm nott concealing my identity!

 

Google me. You'll find out more than you ever wanted to know about who I yam

 

MtB

 

 

 

All marinas are different. Which one are you in?

 

MtB

If ever my daughter, who lives in Reading, needs her boiler fixed, I know a man who can