Wide-Beam Design Project

[Adam Denney]

Hello, Im in my final year studying transport design at huddersfield university, I have decided to design a wide-beam barge for my major design project..

So far I have been researching the whole houseboat/canal lifestyle and have narrowed (no pun intended) my project down to a short wide-beam boat for 2 people, based on these points:

Compact but spacious with enough constraints to make an interesting design project.

Most of the wide-beams I have seen, look very similar, at least on the outside.. room for innovation?

Sustainable - would be ideal for solar/renewable power, materials etc

I enjoy designing furniture/interiors/things that move

I would love to live on one.

Would really appreciate any feedback or pointers from you guys, if you want to see some of my furniture please check out bee9.co.uk

 

Hopefully I can post updates here as the design progresses..

Thank you

Edited January 18, 2014 by Adam Denney

[DeanS]

Welcome.

design away.

ask questions. people will answer.

 

[Guest]

Hello, Im in my final year studying transport design at huddersfield university, I have decided to design a wide-beam barge for my major design project..

 

So far I have been researching the whole houseboat/canal lifestyle and have narrowed (no pun intended) my project down to a short wide-beam boat for 2 people, based on these points:

 

Compact but spacious with enough constraints to make an interesting design project.

 

Most of the wide-beams I have seen, look very similar, at least on the outside.. room for innovation?

 

Sustainable - would be ideal for solar/renewable power, materials etc

 

I enjoy designing furniture/interiors/things that move

 

I would love to live on one.

 

Would really appreciate any feedback or pointers from you guys, if you want to see some of my furniture please check out bee9.co.uk

 

Hopefully I can post updates here as the design progresses..

 

Thank you

 

Welcome.

 

Definitely room for innovation in terms of appearance. The problem is that boat owners tend to be a very conservative lot so a lot of current builders match this with a conservative design that they know will appeal to most people (because at the end of the day they do have to make a living).

 

If you were designing something that wasn't intended to go into actual production, which I presume is the case here, you could be quite innovative.

 

Be aware that boaters can be quite caustic in their comments about anything that deviates from the 'norm' so you may need to gird your loins if you are going to deviate much from the norm that is basically a big steel tube.

 

Don't be dissuaded from being innovative though if that is where you want to go, after all it would be easy just to replicate something that is already out there.

[Paul C]

Sounds an interesting project! The reason that most boats end up being similar-looking these days, and with similar equipment, is that while other more innovative things have been done, commercially they tend to be more expensive to make yet not demanded by buyers, so a "one off" boat which is sufficiently different than the norm, tends to cost more and its value plummets like a stone once it comes up for resale. I guess you need to find a middle course between pure innovation and commercial success.

 

Sustainability - of course, solar is an obvious candidate and many boaters now use significant solar panels to supply a proportion of their energy requirements. A widebeam gives more scope for incorporating the panels without getting in the way of other boaty stuff that ends up on the roof. I like your idea of thinking about sustainability in choice of build materials though. There's bound to be plenty of crossover you can research in building eco-houses, and fitting out the boat's interior. I think one of the first choices will be hull material - steel is an obvious safe choice but there's stainless steel, aluminium, GRP, wood to consider too!

[FadeToScarlet]

A lot of the "narrowboat style" widebeams are very samey, but there's loads of beautiful Dutch designs such as Luxemotors, Klippers, and Aaks, and handsome British types like Kneels, Flats, and Shortboats, to inspire

[DeanS]

Whatever you design. Make sure it can get under the small green walkway bridge near Canal street on the Rochdale 9. ;-)

If you could create a "pop out" design....so the boat has a narrowboat hull baseplate...and the walls could move inwards to allow the boat through narrow locks....but expand to full widebeam size when moored up, you'd have an instand winner. At the moment widebeams cant go where narrowboats can go.

[Barry]

I'd like to see something done with the bow that does not replicate the "fat narrowboat" look with the pug nosed, snout in the air, thing that some boat builders produce

[Robbo]

Hello, Im in my final year studying transport design at huddersfield university, I have decided to design a wide-beam barge for my major design project..

 

So far I have been researching the whole houseboat/canal lifestyle and have narrowed (no pun intended) my project down to a short wide-beam boat for 2 people, based on these points:

 

Compact but spacious with enough constraints to make an interesting design project.

 

Most of the wide-beams I have seen, look very similar, at least on the outside.. room for innovation?

 

Sustainable - would be ideal for solar/renewable power, materials etc

 

I enjoy designing furniture/interiors/things that move

 

I would love to live on one.

 

Would really appreciate any feedback or pointers from you guys, if you want to see some of my furniture please check out bee9.co.uk

 

Hopefully I can post updates here as the design progresses..

 

 

To me, to design a boat thats different you have to actually live on or use a boat alot, there's alot to learn from just using a boat travelling the system and also living on one. As you don't? have that, I would talk to alot of boaters of different types of boats and ask them what they like about there boat for living on and also for using as a boat and what they would change. Don't stick to narrow and wide beam boats either...

 

 

This is why I like my boat, it's not a "wide beam", it's a replica dutch barge in the luxemotor style 50x12ft.

 

 

What I like and think is good about the boat for boating...

 

Shape of the boat, especially the bow (looks like a ship )

 

Length of the boat, it fit's into the locks in North (which are around 57-62ft) quite nicely been only 50ft

 

Bollard placement, there is two just out side the wheel house door which are really handy when boating. In addition there is a small one half way which is useful when mooring in small herringbone pontoons and hanging fenders off. Something I'm adding is another small bollard further up just before the curve for the bow for hanging fenders off.

 

Vents, mine don't catch ropes on them as there curved from the roof (I'll get a photo). The roof hatches do catch ropes, as well as the place to hold the gang plank, poles, etc, so these areas could be improved.

 

Gunwale size, mine are around a foot wide which means I'm not struggling to get from one end to the other.

 

Roof height from gunwale, it's easy to get on my roof from the gunwale, and with the size of the gunwale your not rubbing against the side.

 

I can see the front, (the bow comes up higher than the roof so I can see instead of guessing where the front is). - The down side to this style is that you don't have the social area thats an extension of the living area at the bow of the front. The plus point is that it removes water better at leaking lock gates and rougher water.

 

 

What I don't like...

Wheelhouse roof, don't like the shape as it's flat (I'm actually changing the roof).

Wheelhouse roof height, I'm 5'10" and can nearly touch the roof with my head, be nice if there was a bit more height.

Wheelhouse roof height, it's too high for some bridges (Huddersfield Broad and Leeds and Liverpool I have to take down for some bridges and it's hard to do single handed.

Front sliding hatch leaks.

Tender on the roof (I'm getting some davits, as it's a pain to get off/on).

 

What I'm improving...

Wheelhouse roof to have a curve, three sections, (front, middle and back), and on hydraulics so can be dropped easily. The middle section can then be removed to help with steering, and exiting as this is where the doors are.

Front hatch, from been sliding to be lift up.

 

 

 

Living on it...

I'm currently fitting out and have been living on it for about 6 years now, so here's what I like and what I'm improving.

Shape of the bow, it's a nice feature inside.

Gunwale size, I like them because it looks like a boat, but they make a 12ft wide boat feel like 10ft.

The roof hatches bring in some nice light.

The windows are fairly high (due to the gunwale height), if your sat down your looking up at sky. It's nice to sit and look out.

 

What I want (most I'm planning to do)...

24x7 heating with no electric (I'm looking at a oil rayburn). (although I'm still having a solid fuel stove for effect).

Not to think about power usage (I have a built in generator, I'm hooking up to auto start this when batteries are low).

To not mess around with a water hose. I just want to pull the hose and connect to the tap and switch on.

Same with the power cord

 

Neighbour had a good one - moveable furniture, sometimes it's nice to sit on one side of the boat and then the other due to where the view and/or sunlight is. - This may hindered if you have a stove to one side.

 

Edit to add. widebeams tend to be harder to get through bridges due to the width and length of the roof. (one plus point for having bigger gunwales).. Boat design, 12ft is a lot harder to do structurally than 10ft, steel comes in standard sizes, the more you need to cut and shape the more the boat will cost. (The base plate width is better to be the size of a standard steel sheet, etc).

Edited January 17, 2014 by Robbo

[Bettie Boo]

Whatever you design. Make sure it can get under the small green walkway bridge near Canal street on the Rochdale 9. ;-)

If you could create a "pop out" design....so the boat has a narrowboat hull baseplate...and the walls could move inwards to allow the boat through narrow locks....but expand to full widebeam size when moored up, you'd have an instand winner. At the moment widebeams cant go where narrowboats can go.

Really like your idea Dean....something like you see in large Winnebago's / caravan's - would be fab to have a boat designed thin enough to use all the canal system, but be able to convert to the comfortable width a widebeam provides with a few simple adjustments.

 

I do like the idea of having a small "patio" area on the roof as well (obviously only to be used when moored), but would like it to have a collapsible railing around it for safety

[ditchcrawler]

I see someone has built a 9ft wide boat in Waterways World this month. I don't quite see the point of that.

[Robbo]

 

I do like the idea of having a small "patio" area on the roof as well (obviously only to be used when moored), but would like it to have a collapsible railing around it for safety

 

Like Lady Teal? - http://www.ladyteal.co.uk/

[Adam Denney]

Amazing response! thank you

 

 

 

If you were designing something that wasn't intended to go into actual production, which I presume is the case here, you could be quite innovative.

 

bang on, I will be making a model but it wont be going in to production, although never say never..

 

Don't be dissuaded from being innovative though if that is where you want to go, after all it would be easy just to replicate something that is already out there.

 

music to my ears

 

 

Sounds an interesting project! The reason that most boats end up being similar-looking these days, and with similar equipment, is that while other more innovative things have been done, commercially they tend to be more expensive to make yet not demanded by buyers, so a "one off" boat which is sufficiently different than the norm, tends to cost more and its value plummets like a stone once it comes up for resale. I guess you need to find a middle course between pure innovation and commercial success.

Sustainability - of course, solar is an obvious candidate and many boaters now use significant solar panels to supply a proportion of their energy requirements. A widebeam gives more scope for incorporating the panels without getting in the way of other boaty stuff that ends up on the roof. I like your idea of thinking about sustainability in choice of build materials though. There's bound to be plenty of crossover you can research in building eco-houses, and fitting out the boat's interior. I think one of the first choices will be hull material - steel is an obvious safe choice but there's stainless steel, aluminium, GRP, wood to consider too!

 

great points, the idea should be commercially viable, so will have to take take that into account when choosing materials..

two possible business models come to mind at the moment,

 

a) bespoke, one off hotel boat for hiring out

a market changing production model, made in batches i presume

 

probably easier to justify the first one

 

 

 

A lot of the "narrowboat style" widebeams are very samey, but there's loads of beautiful Dutch designs such as Luxemotors, Klippers, and Aaks, and handsome British types like Kneels, Flats, and Shortboats, to inspire

 

thankyou, much appreciated.. having looked at quite a few house boats im keen incorporate new archetypes which arent so boaty.. although I appreciate it still has to function as a boat, im intending to work from inside to out..

 

 

 

If you could create a "pop out" design....so the boat has a narrowboat hull baseplate...and the walls could move inwards to allow the boat through narrow locks....but expand to full widebeam size when moored up, you'd have an instand winner. At the moment widebeams cant go where narrowboats can go.

 

fantastic idea, thankyou sir.. a similar idea I have had is to have a fold down deck/patio which would give you a nice outdoor space at water level.

 

 

 

I'd like to see something done with the bow that does not replicate the "fat narrowboat" look with the pug nosed, snout in the air, thing that some boat builders produce

 

like wise I am keen to get away from the classic boat look

 

 

 

 

To me, to design a boat thats different you have to actually live on or use a boat alot, there's alot to learn from just using a boat travelling the system and also living on one. As you don't? have that, I would talk to alot of boaters of different types of boats and ask them what they like about there boat for living on and also for using as a boat and what they would change. Don't stick to narrow and wide beam boats either...

 

You're right, although I have had many motor home holidays which are similar, albeit no water.. hopefully I can bring a fresh perspective.. I have also done a fair bit of reading and surfing research in to houseboats, barges and small/mobile homes to understand what I have to play with, and gain some insight form people like yourself

 

Thankyou for the picture and all the info, much appereciated!

 

 

 

I do like the idea of having a small "patio" area on the roof as well (obviously only to be used when moored), but would like it to have a collapsible railing around it for safety

 

Me too, either on top or a fold down one on the side..

 

 

 

Like Lady Teal? - http://www.ladyteal.co.uk/

 

That is a great example of a business model for a hotel boat

 

 

 

I see someone has built a 9ft wide boat in Waterways World this month. I don't quite see the point of that.

 

can you elaborate?

[Robbo]

 

can you elaborate?

 

It's only 2ft wider than a narrowboat so not much wider to benefit from been wide, but has the hastle of a wide beam in moorings costs (most marina's cost more for wide beams), and also you have to open both side of the lock gates, and your restricted to the canals as a 12ft wide boat.

[FadeToScarlet]

It's only 2ft wider than a narrowboat so not much wider to benefit from been wide, but has the hastle of a wide beam in moorings costs (most marina's cost more for wide beams), and also you have to open both side of the lock gates, and your restricted to the canals as a 12ft wide boat.

 

Very practical for the Bedford Ouze and Fen waterways, narrowest lock is a smidge over 10' wide.

[Robbo]

Very practical for the Bedford Ouze and Fen waterways, narrowest lock is a smidge over 10' wide.

Seems an odd size, where they any boats designing for that canal?

[blackrose]

Hello, Im in my final year studying transport design at huddersfield university, I have decided to design a wide-beam barge for my major design project..

 

So far I have been researching the whole houseboat/canal lifestyle and have narrowed (no pun intended) my project down to a short wide-beam boat for 2 people, based on these points:

 

Compact but spacious with enough constraints to make an interesting design project.

 

Most of the wide-beams I have seen, look very similar, at least on the outside.. room for innovation?

 

Sustainable - would be ideal for solar/renewable power, materials etc

 

I enjoy designing furniture/interiors/things that move

 

I would love to live on one.

 

Would really appreciate any feedback or pointers from you guys, if you want to see some of my furniture please check out bee9.co.uk

 

Hopefully I can post updates here as the design progresses..

 

Thank you

 

Here's my tip:

 

If you want to be a serious academic then stop using the term "sustainable". It's a vague and often meaningless word unless properly defined. It's not much better than the terms "green" or "environmentally friendly"

[blackrose]

 

To me, to design a boat thats different you have to actually live on or use a boat alot, there's alot to learn from just using a boat travelling the system and also living on one. As you don't? have that, I would talk to alot of boaters of different types of boats and ask them what they like about there boat for living on and also for using as a boat and what they would change. Don't stick to narrow and wide beam boats either...

 

 

This is why I like my boat, it's not a "wide beam", it's a replica dutch barge in the luxemotor style 50x12ft.

 

 

What I like and think is good about the boat for boating...

 

Shape of the boat, especially the bow (looks like a ship )

 

Length of the boat, it fit's into the locks in North (which are around 57-62ft) quite nicely been only 50ft

 

Bollard placement, there is two just out side the wheel house door which are really handy when boating. In addition there is a small one half way which is useful when mooring in small herringbone pontoons and hanging fenders off. Something I'm adding is another small bollard further up just before the curve for the bow for hanging fenders off.

 

Vents, mine don't catch ropes on them as there curved from the roof (I'll get a photo). The roof hatches do catch ropes, as well as the place to hold the gang plank, poles, etc, so these areas could be improved.

 

Gunwale size, mine are around a foot wide which means I'm not struggling to get from one end to the other.

 

Roof height from gunwale, it's easy to get on my roof from the gunwale, and with the size of the gunwale your not rubbing against the side.

 

I can see the front, (the bow comes up higher than the roof so I can see instead of guessing where the front is). - The down side to this style is that you don't have the social area thats an extension of the living area at the bow of the front. The plus point is that it removes water better at leaking lock gates and rougher water.

 

 

What I don't like...

Wheelhouse roof, don't like the shape as it's flat (I'm actually changing the roof).

Wheelhouse roof height, I'm 5'10" and can nearly touch the roof with my head, be nice if there was a bit more height.

Wheelhouse roof height, it's too high for some bridges (Huddersfield Broad and Leeds and Liverpool I have to take down for some bridges and it's hard to do single handed.

Front sliding hatch leaks.

Tender on the roof (I'm getting some davits, as it's a pain to get off/on).

 

What I'm improving...

Wheelhouse roof to have a curve, three sections, (front, middle and back), and on hydraulics so can be dropped easily. The middle section can then be removed to help with steering, and exiting as this is where the doors are.

Front hatch, from been sliding to be lift up.

 

 

 

Living on it...

I'm currently fitting out and have been living on it for about 6 years now, so here's what I like and what I'm improving.

Shape of the bow, it's a nice feature inside.

Gunwale size, I like them because it looks like a boat, but they make a 12ft wide boat feel like 10ft.

The roof hatches bring in some nice light.

The windows are fairly high (due to the gunwale height), if your sat down your looking up at sky. It's nice to sit and look out.

 

What I want (most I'm planning to do)...

24x7 heating with no electric (I'm looking at a oil rayburn). (although I'm still having a solid fuel stove for effect).

Not to think about power usage (I have a built in generator, I'm hooking up to auto start this when batteries are low).

To not mess around with a water hose. I just want to pull the hose and connect to the tap and switch on.

Same with the power cord

 

Neighbour had a good one - moveable furniture, sometimes it's nice to sit on one side of the boat and then the other due to where the view and/or sunlight is. - This may hindered if you have a stove to one side.

 

Edit to add. widebeams tend to be harder to get through bridges due to the width and length of the roof. (one plus point for having bigger gunwales).. Boat design, 12ft is a lot harder to do structurally than 10ft, steel comes in standard sizes, the more you need to cut and shape the more the boat will cost. (The base plate width is better to be the size of a standard steel sheet, etc).

 

Great looking boat! I agree with everything you've said apart from your last paragraph. I've never had any problems getting my boat under any bridge (on a broadbeam canal) that a narrowboat can get under. I went all the way from Reading to Bristol last year on the K&A so there were lots of bridges. If you include struggling with your wheelhouse single-handed then I really think that you would have more problems with some bridges than me.

 

Also, I don't know what your boat draws but the new build Dutch barge owners I've spoken to (and I've spoken to a lot), really struggle with the depth on canals like the K&A. Again I had no problems at all because my boat only draws 2'2".

 

But at the end of the day I'd rather own your boat!

A lot of the "narrowboat style" widebeams are very samey...

 

True, but then so are a lot of narrowboats...

Edited January 17, 2014 by blackrose

[FadeToScarlet]

Great looking boat! I agree with everything you've said apart from your last paragraph. I've never had any problems getting my boat under any bridge that a narrowboat can get under.

 

How about this one?

 

True, but then so are a lot of narrowboats...

Yep!

Edited January 17, 2014 by FadeToScarlet

[blackrose]

 

 

thankyou, much appreciated.. having looked at quite a few house boats im keen incorporate new archetypes which arent so boaty.. although I appreciate it still has to function as a boat, im intending to work from inside to out..

 

That's a mistake in my opinion, but I guess it depends on how far you intend to take that approach. If it's just a concept boat then you can design what you want, but I've seen people include all sorts of "lifestyle" features that reduce their boat's integrity as a boat. Putting toilet waste pipes through the bottom of water tight bulkheads, installing a deep Butler-style sink near the stern which then meant the skin-fitting was far too close to the waterline, or a pump had to be installed in what could have been a simple gravity-drained sink. There are many examples where form is put before function and goes too far.

 

How about this one?

 

 

Is it on a broad canal?

 

Edit: sorry that's what I meant earlier. Obviously if it's on a narrow canal then I can't take my boat onto that canal anyway.

Edited January 17, 2014 by blackrose

[raymondh]

I see someone has built a 9ft wide boat in Waterways World this month. I don't quite see the point of that.

This is the builders rationale

"On site now, first of our range of a completely new concept 9' Wide Beam christened 'Pioneer'. This Vessel is cleverly crafted to link from our base at Wincham Wharf to the Bridgewater & wide canal network."

Ray

[Adam Denney]

 

Here's my tip:

 

If you want to be a serious academic then stop using the term "sustainable". It's a vague and often meaningless word unless properly defined. It's not much better than the terms "green" or "environmentally friendly"

 

true, in the market report I used "driven by an ethical outlook", but i figure most people understand what is intended by sustainable i.e. low consumption, small footprint, renewable sources, etc

[blackrose]

I'd like to see something done with the bow that does not replicate the "fat narrowboat" look with the pug nosed, snout in the air, thing that some boat builders produce

 

On the other hand I'm a big fan of the pug-nosed bow.

 

 

true, in the market report I used "driven by an ethical outlook", but i figure most people understand what is intended by sustainable i.e. low consumption, small footprint, renewable sources, etc

 

Ethical outlook? Excuse my cynicism but do me a favour!

 

Yes of course everyone thinks they understand what these terms mean, but unless you're prepared to quantify the consumption, footprint, etc, then they are almost entirely meaningless.

 

If you really look at the figures I very much doubt you'll find that living on boats is very "sustainable" (using your definitions), compared to living in a modest well-insulated flat or small house. I speak from the experience of living on board for 11 years.

Edited January 17, 2014 by blackrose

[SamKingfisher]

My boat living is a shed load more sustainable than my house living was!

[ditchcrawler]

 

How about this one?

 

 

 

But Kev wanted to give it a try.

[Robbo]

 

Great looking boat! I agree with everything you've said apart from your last paragraph. I've never had any problems getting my boat under any bridge (on a broadbeam canal) that a narrowboat can get under. I went all the way from Reading to Bristol last year on the K&A so there were lots of bridges. If you include struggling with your wheelhouse single-handed then I really think that you would have more problems with some bridges than me.

 

Also, I don't know what your boat draws but the new build Dutch barge owners I've spoken to (and I've spoken to a lot), really struggle with the depth on canals like the K&A. Again I had no problems at all because my boat only draws 2'2".

 

It was a comment made by I think Lady Muck here a while ago regarding old bridges and wide beams, presume like the photo posted where it can be tight. Standedge Tunnel has the same issue for narrowboats, as a lot up straight sided narrowboats have trouble or just can't do it. Basically it's too wide at the top of the boat. Wheelhouse type boats will struggle with these type of bridges as you would have to take the wheel house down of course (It's a blessing and a curse!), but once I've fitted jacks on the wheelhouse roof, it will be easy to do single handed.

 

But at the end of the day I'd rather own your boat!

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Also, I don't know what your boat draws but the new build Dutch barge owners I've spoken to (and I've spoken to a lot), really struggle with the depth on canals like the K&A. Again I had no problems at all because my boat only draws 2'2".

 

 

I'm not sure either to be honest, it's not fitted out yet so it's quite high in the water. Manual says it's around 20ton (it's 20:10:6:4 thick). I'm on the Aire and Calder, bridge height and water depth not really an issue