Running Webasto Airtop on Biodiesel

[tomandsophie]

Can't decide between a Propex or a Webasto blown-air heater. I can get a brand new Propex for the same cost as a secondhand Webasto, so it wins on that count, and the fuel consumption appears about the same. Most people have said that their Propex heaters have been 100% reliable for years and years compared to very few people saying that of their deisel heaters.

However, I'm not keen on the idea of buying a fossil-fuel powered heater when the price of gas and diesel is going up up up. Does anybody know if the Webasto heaters can be powered by biodiesel as opposed to red diesel? I'm talking about the proper stuff here, not the 5% mix or veg oil.

[Yoda]

If your thinking of popping down to your local fish and chip shop, forget it. The oil needs to be processed and have certain chemicals added. By the time you two have done that you might as well have got some red diesel.

 

Go for the cheapest option and get a guarentee.

[Alastair]

If your thinking of popping down to your local fish and chip shop, forget it. T

 

He said "Not veg Oil".

 

Tomandsophie, I think that the answer is NO. Biodiesel is considerably more viscous and has a higher vapourising point than dinodiesel. I looked into using it, and generally it is a big no for any diesel heaters.

 

I've bought (but not yet installed) a domestic oil-fired boiler. This has replaceable jets, so I can contemplate running it on biodiesel at some point. However, this is a pressure-injected, force drafted boiler, not a simple burner.

 

Why don't you get a miniature charcoal fuel burner and an eco-fan? I know you want 'convenience heating' - it's difficult, when you both work, to keep a boat warm all the time. I'd opt for the simplest option, that will heat up quickly.

[Yoda]

I know he wrote no veg oil but I'm sure the best F&C shops use coconut oil or similar.

[Alistair]

Why don't you get a miniature charcoal fuel burner and an eco-fan? I know you want 'convenience heating' - it's difficult, when you both work, to keep a boat warm all the time. I'd opt for the simplest option, that will heat up quickly.

 

Amen to that. I've had my eco-fan a week and it's fantastic. For the first time ever my kitchen and bathroom are warm and habitable when it's cold outside. And it's a damn sight cheaper and less upheaval than fitting central heating...

[tomandsophie]

I agree 100% with the ecofan thing - we bought one and it made a huge difference. The only problem with them of course is that they have not developed one that will blow air through solid walls and doors! Hence still the cold bedroom problem.

I am fairly sure we're going to go for a Propex heater then. We're pushed for space to install a small solid fuel stove and really I'd rather not have the ash and dust in the bedroom.

[nmptwentyone]

Can't decide between a Propex or a Webasto blown-air heater. I can get a brand new Propex for the same cost as a secondhand Webasto, so it wins on that count, and the fuel consumption appears about the same. Most people have said that their Propex heaters have been 100% reliable for years and years compared to very few people saying that of their deisel heaters.

However, I'm not keen on the idea of buying a fossil-fuel powered heater when the price of gas and diesel is going up up up. Does anybody know if the Webasto heaters can be powered by biodiesel as opposed to red diesel? I'm talking about the proper stuff here, not the 5% mix or veg oil.

 

pay no attention to yoda, he's very anti biodiesel. he became the self confessed authority on one of my posts about biodiesel. i dont confess to be the authority, but i've made and used it! if your thinking of making it i can definatly recommend the weekend course run by the low impact living intitative www.lowimpact.org they know the in's and out's and make it by the tonne!

 

you could probably use a 50/50 mix of biodiesel and fossil diesel, in cold weather (purchased from oct-april ish) fossil diesel has all the winterising agents added. as for price compared to red diesel unless you make it yourself, use free waste oil and dont allow for your time i wouldnt have thought it would work out any cheaper. but certainly better for the enviroment. (dont even bother picking up on that yoda, it is! yes other chemicals are involved, about 15%, that still leaves 85% a recycled waste product)

 

PS posted on your topic the other day when you were considering the webasto air top off ebay, bought one myself the other day off ebay, airtop 3500, works great and by the looks of things is quite simple to service or fix if its broken. worth considering when comparing to the propex (not aware of them). managed to find the webasto tech site which has downloads of the installation guide, parts catalogue and workshop manual. may come in very handy. not sure if it was ment for public access of just for dealer support, isnt listed on the main site.

 

http://www.techwebasto.com/marine_blueheat.htm

Edited November 22, 2006 by nmptwentyone

[DHutch]

...biodiesel, the proper, not the 5% mix or veg oil.

Define 'biodiesal' then.

- S'far as i know its eather vegoil, or a blend of veg oil and traditial diesal.

 

 

Daniel

[nmptwentyone]

Define 'biodiesal' then.

- S'far as i know its eather vegoil, or a blend of veg oil and traditial diesal.

Daniel

 

None of the above

 

"biodiesel (and i quote) is a fuel for conventional diesel engines made from plant or animal oils or fats that have been chemically transformed into alkyl esters"

 

went and got my book

 

basically vegetable oil (really viscous) is chemically transformed into a much thinner liquid only slightly more viscous than mineral diesel. viscousity of DERV @ 40C 2.0-4.5 (EN590) BIODIESEL 3.5-5.0 (EN14214).

 

After the chemical process your left with a fuel made from carbon from our current atmosphere (ie. plant absorbs carbon from atmosphere, plant used to make veg oil, waste veg oil used to make biodiesel, when burt expells carbon as gas which is then absorbed by the plants again! whats called carbon neutral) rather than carbon that was oringinally stored underground for millions of years (brought to the surface, burnt) adding extra carbon to our current atmosphere (thus helping global warming).

 

The process is quite simple, people do it in there garages. involves a few other chemicals and a by product (glycerine) which can be used to make soap!

 

Though the enviromental benefits are only really there if you used waste veg oil to make your biodiesel.

[Yoda]

pay no attention to yoda, he's very anti biodiesel. he became the self confessed authority on one of my posts about biodiesel. i dont confess to be the authority, but i've made and used it! if your thinking of making it i can definatly recommend the weekend course run by the low impact living intitative www.lowimpact.org they know the in's and out's and make it by the tonne!

 

you could probably use a 50/50 mix of biodiesel and fossil diesel, in cold weather (purchased from oct-april ish) fossil diesel has all the winterising agents added. as for price compared to red diesel unless you make it yourself, use free waste oil and dont allow for your time i wouldnt have thought it would work out any cheaper. but certainly better for the enviroment. (dont even bother picking up on that yoda, it is! yes other chemicals are involved, about 15%, that still leaves 85% a recycled waste product)

 

PS posted on your topic the other day when you were considering the webasto air top off ebay, bought one myself the other day off ebay, airtop 3500, works great and by the looks of things is quite simple to service or fix if its broken. worth considering when comparing to the propex (not aware of them). managed to find the webasto tech site which has downloads of the installation guide, parts catalogue and workshop manual. may come in very handy. not sure if it was ment for public access of just for dealer support, isnt listed on the main site.

 

http://www.techwebasto.com/marine_blueheat.htm

 

Thanks for that. You just confirmed everything that I have written on the subject. By the way, I have no prejudice what-so-ever about 'bio-diesel' and I dont see any difference to a carbon cycle of a few years to a few tens of thousand years. Get real and stop being rude to me.

[nmptwentyone]

Can't decide between a Propex or a Webasto blown-air heater. I can get a brand new Propex for the same cost as a secondhand Webasto, so it wins on that count, and the fuel consumption appears about the same. Most people have said that their Propex heaters have been 100% reliable for years and years compared to very few people saying that of their deisel heaters.

However, I'm not keen on the idea of buying a fossil-fuel powered heater when the price of gas and diesel is going up up up. Does anybody know if the Webasto heaters can be powered by biodiesel as opposed to red diesel? I'm talking about the proper stuff here, not the 5% mix or veg oil.

 

While i've got the book thought id see what it said about cold weather. basically it depends on how good the oil was that the biodiesel was made from. but it also says a blend of 20% (ref a study in the US) will have the same or better starting properties as mineral diesel down to -32C!

 

If your making it yourself you could save all your good quality oil for winter and use a 50/60/75% blend (or even 100%! if it takes the 75% OK)

 

Thanks for that. You just confirmed everything that I have written on the subject. By the way, I have no prejudice what-so-ever about 'bio-diesel' and I dont see any difference to a carbon cycle of a few years to a few tens of thousand years. Get real and stop being rude to me.

 

i'm trying to avoid saying you started it, but cant!!

 

the world is pleasent today with the amount of carbon in the atmosphere. if we keep adding to it, it slowly becomes less pleasent. maybe not in our lifetime but it eventually does.

Edited November 22, 2006 by nmptwentyone

[Yoda]

 

i'm trying to avoid saying you started it, but cant!!

 

OK lets start all over again from scratch and try not to upset each other, OK?

[nmptwentyone]

OK lets start all over again from scratch and try not to upset each other, OK?

 

fine

[Canal Shop Man]

Can't decide between a Propex or a Webasto blown-air heater.

Have you compared running costs? comparing water based central heating, an Alde water heater costs a lot more to run than a Webasto/Eberpacher heater since the gas required costs a lot more than red diesel.

[tomandsophie]

Have compared running costs between diesel and gas blown-air systems (Webasto and Propex respectively) and they are very nearly the same. Each will cost around £4 a month for 1 hour a day (just to heat up the bedroom in the morning remember).

I think we've pretty much decided on the Propex heater, as I have spoken to lots of people who have had them for years and years and never had a problem, whereas I haven't spoken to anybody at all who has had a trouble-free Webasto or Eber!

[MDV]

About to use Fuelbox Green-HDV in my Isuzu marine diesel engine on my narrowboat, which also has a Webasto Thermotop 12V diesel heater. It doesn’t get so freezing in London so I am hoping it will work even up to 100% biodiesel.
Any prohibitory advice before I take the plunge? 
P.S. it’s so great Fuelbox deliver to your door, even on a London Marina, in 20 litre boxes or 200 litre barrels. ☺️

[Alan de Enfield]

Do you mean HVO rather than HDV ?

 

If so you'll have no problems except, many less pounds in your pocket.

[MDV]

Oops yes HVO. Thanks for the positive advice!

[MDV]

Once off purchases of HVO in 20litre containers cost me GBP43 plus delivery. Not crazy prices, but yes, much more than red diesel. 

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, MDV said:

Once off purchases of HVO in 20litre containers cost me GBP43 plus delivery. Not crazy prices, but yes, much more than red diesel. 

 

£2.15 ppl + delivery is about twice the price of Red diesel (for domestic) as there is no reduced duty available for HVO.

[PeterF]

I used HVO for a while, never got the tank to pure HVO, I reckon I got to about 85% HVO 15% red and had no issues with any of my Beta 43, Webasto Thermotop or Refleks stove.

[Sea Dog]

On 22/11/2006 at 15:29, Yoda said:

I know he wrote no veg oil but I'm sure the best F&C shops use coconut oil or similar.

Some might, but not the best - they use beef dripping. Imho, obvs - but also imho the chip shops that seem to win punters votes in the awards are those who major on quantity rather than quality, so I suspect the coconuts will also be beaten by the pile 'em high merchants.

[Up-Side-Down]

15 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Some might, but not the best - they use beef dripping. Imho, obvs - but also imho the chip shops that seem to win punters votes in the awards are those who major on quantity rather than quality, so I suspect the coconuts will also be beaten by the pile 'em high merchants.

Why not tap into some of the HVO trials depicted on the IWA website. I will save you re-inventing the wheel!

[Sea Dog]

8 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

Why not tap into some of the HVO trials depicted on the IWA website. I will save you re-inventing the wheel!

I'm not reinventing the wheel by liking my fish and chips fried in beef dripping, am I? Crikey, what's the world coming to?! 

[Up-Side-Down]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

I'm not reinventing the wheel by liking my fish and chips fried in beef dripping, am I? Crikey, what's the world coming to?! 

No wheels and no thing better!!

On 26/04/2024 at 14:51, MDV said:

About to use Fuelbox Green-HDV in my Isuzu marine diesel engine on my narrowboat, which also has a Webasto Thermotop 12V diesel heater. It doesn’t get so freezing in London so I am hoping it will work even up to 100% biodiesel.
Any prohibitory advice before I take the plunge? 
P.S. it’s so great Fuelbox deliver to your door, even on a London Marina, in 20 litre boxes or 200 litre barrels. ☺️

Absolutely no issues using HVO in either your engine or in any heating device, including a Webasto. You'll find it superior in every way. Bear in mind that HVO is second generation biodiesel so you'll meet none of the issues surrounding first generation, FAME biodiesel. 

 

Why not suggest that your marina stocks it alongside their existing dino diesel? Crown Oil, who I've worked with on all the trials I've done for the IWA Sustainable Boating Group, are quite happy to put in a tank and supply the fuel so that marinas can assess the interest from boaters and now that we've persuaded DfT that the RTFC (effectively a subsidy) applies to fuel used for for both domestic purposes and for propulsion, it's simply down to the marina to apply the usual split for the bonfire of HMRC.

 

Right now the differential in price between red diesel and red HVO is only about £0.12 making it affordable ... although the pricing is volatile (something we're working with Government on) and that gap could easily widen.