Narrow boat shape??

[Guest Chris.m]

A few years ago whilst having a wonder around the cut somewhere, I came across the most intriging sight. That was a Reliant three wheeler on the front of a narrow boat.

 

If that can be done a bike must be easier.

 

The only problem I can see with lifting a bike up is the pivit point of the bike.

 

The boat had nothing to do with the Trotters?

 

I hope to use a off road style of bike & the center is a good pivot point on this type of bike & a lot easier to get a web strap through the frame than most road bikes. At worst a couple of wrap around tubular brackets can be welded on the bikes frame for lifting & have 4 straps from a center point. Two to the handle bars & two to the rear of the frame.

Edited November 13, 2006 by Chris.m

[Keeping Up]

A few years ago whilst having a wonder around the cut somewhere, I came across the most intriging sight. That was a Reliant three wheeler on the front of a narrow boat.

Do you mean this one, that I snapped near Leighton Buzzard in the early 1970s?

 

[david and julie]

David & Julies suggestion for a central roof pivot or base mounted idea

I think you may have slightly misunderstanding me Chris. I didn't mean a central pivot point, I meant next to the side of the boat. A central point would make the lifting arm longer and weaker and would also be in the way of opening the front doors when using the lift.

 

You seem to prefer hydraulics(I do too) so lets consider an alternative. Have a look at this.

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p...=2050&g=107

A very simple and light self contained unit, ripe for butchering.

 

Imagine just the top section bolted to a tube (strenghthened as required)passing through the roof as I said earlier. All we would then need to do then is to temporarily fix the bottom of the ram to the lower part of the tube, whilst in use. We would then have much the same as the above with the ram transferring the weight downwards.

 

This would mean a virtually standard and much more useable frontal area and I wouldn't have thought it would be that difficult to actually do.

[William Martin]

"...whilst you may think it looks like a brick, we think its looks gorgeous..." etc.

 

 

Aesthetics are not actually a matter of opinion, although we humans like to think that our intellect is so developed that it is. Aesthetics, ie: wether something looks nice, actually is defined by its relationship to its function. Almost all aesthetic/function comes from nature, man made things that 'look good' invariably share the same proportionality as an animal or some other form in nature.

 

The best example I can think of is Concorde. So tight were the performance requirements that at no point was aesthetics ever allowed to influence the design in any way - every bit of performance had to be squeezed from the shape regardless of how it looked. Despite this total abandonment of aesthetics it turned out to be one of the most beautiful things man has ever made.

 

Basically, if it looks good it is good - it is very rare that adage is wrong!

Edited November 13, 2006 by William Martin

[tomsk]

"...whilst you may think it looks like a brick, we think its looks gorgeous..." etc.

Aesthetics are not actually a matter of opinion, although we humans like to think that our intellect is so developed that it is. Aesthetics, ie: wether something looks nice, actually is defined by its relationship to its function. Almost all aesthetic/function comes from nature, man made things that 'look good' invariably share the same proportionality as an animal or some other form in nature.

 

The best example I can think of is Concorde. So tight were the performance requirements that at no point was aesthetics ever allowed to influence the design in any way - every bit of performance had to be squeezed from the shape regardless of how it looked. Despite this total abandonment of aesthetics it turned out to be one of the most beautiful things man has ever made.

 

Basically, if it looks good it is good - it is very rare that adage is wrong!

 

Enter Golden ratio or golden rectangle into a search engine, take recomended dose of headache pills and read on........

 

Edited cos golden triangle is not what I meant...can't think what I was thinking of

Edited November 13, 2006 by tomsk

[William Martin]

"Enter Golden ratio or golden triangle into a search engine, take recommended dose of headache pills and read on........ "

 

 

To quote someone much wiser than me...

 

"Mathematics is the language in which nature speaks to us!"

[tomsk]

"Enter Golden ratio or golden triangle into a search engine, take recommended dose of headache pills and read on........ "

To quote someone much wiser than me...

 

"Mathematics is the language in which nature speaks to us!"

 

Precisely!

[blackrose]

"...whilst you may think it looks like a brick, we think its looks gorgeous..." etc.

Aesthetics are not actually a matter of opinion, although we humans like to think that our intellect is so developed that it is. Aesthetics, ie: wether something looks nice, actually is defined by its relationship to its function. Almost all aesthetic/function comes from nature, man made things that 'look good' invariably share the same proportionality as an animal or some other form in nature.

 

The best example I can think of is Concorde. So tight were the performance requirements that at no point was aesthetics ever allowed to influence the design in any way - every bit of performance had to be squeezed from the shape regardless of how it looked. Despite this total abandonment of aesthetics it turned out to be one of the most beautiful things man has ever made.

 

Basically, if it looks good it is good - it is very rare that adage is wrong!

 

So why are we having this discussion? We all seem to like different things?

 

Yes, I agree, to some extent asthetics is hardwired in the brain, but this is by no means universal or immutable as anyone who has lived abroad and travelled widely can attest. Nature has a multitude of forms and if some of us want to do something different why shouldn't we? Wouldn't it be boring if every boat was the same...

Edited November 13, 2006 by blackrose

[tomsk]

So why do we all like different things then?

 

Do we?

 

Or are we just trying to be 'new and exciting' (pass the sick bag Alice)...... Take for instance, errr, lets see ah I know.. forums... Plenty of threads are started, people join in, then argue the toss usually about the semantics of something for a few screens then decide that in fact they roughly agreed with each other all along anyway.... There is after all nothing new under the sun.....its all been done before

[Yoda]

I always thought that the Supermarine Spitfire was one of the most beautiful things ever created. A gentlemens aeronautical carridge for firing guns.

[blackrose]

Do we?

 

Yes, we do. The thread was originally about square sterns, which I, the topic starter and another member like. Several others are dead against them, some for asthetic reasons. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Edited November 13, 2006 by blackrose

[Yoda]

Yes, we do. The thread was originally about square sterns, which I, the topic starter and another member like. Several others are dead against them, some for asthetic reasons. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

Can't see a problem with a square stern, lots of room which is whats required. If people stopped driving their narrowboats like cars then there is no navigation problems.

[Moley]

The thread was originally about square sterns, which I, the topic starter and another member like.

And so do I.

 

Thanks to Bottle for finding my stern pic at post no. 4. I was going to say that this was taken before I'd even completed the purchase and there was quite a bit of tat on the stern, but it probably looks worse now

 

The stern's squarish with gas / coal lockers in the corners but the swim's normal and the weighting is pretty-much spot on with half a tank of diesel. I've had no problems pulling out from the towpath, can reverse park just fine, but I would say that we moor reversed into a wooden pontoon corner and the stern is now mirror smooth steel in places with the paint completely rubbed off, whereas the rounded stern boats seem to fit in better.

 

You pays yer money .................

Edited November 13, 2006 by Moley

[Liam]

You pays yer money .................

 

It's not a case of that Moley...

 

All this crap about it being right, or it being wrong.. is a load of bull... it all depends on what YOU want.

 

It's a good job we all have our own opinions. If we had the same ones things would get very boring around here

[DHutch]

Not sure if there are any admin for the forum about. But when I registered, I didn’t get a conformation email? But I can post ok. The only thing is, I don’t get an email to say there are replies to a posting. So apologies for not getting back a bit sooner.

Hi chris.

- Sorry ive only just spoted this. Are you still having problems, you seam to now be unregistered?

- If you want me to look into it for you, please eather PM me (if you can), or send me an emial. (address in my profile)

 

 

Daniel

[david and julie]

Yes, we do. The thread was originally about square sterns, which I, the topic starter and another member like. Several others are dead against them, some for asthetic reasons. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

I thought the topic starter saw the square stern as a way of accommodating the storage of a motorbike upfront, rather than a personal preference. I also thought he was just after idea's on the pro's and cons of this before he decided.

 

Personally I don't mind square(ish) sterns on some boats(Sea-Otters spring to mind) but according to a couple of brokers I have spoken too they are definately harder too sell, moreso if they are on longish boats.

 

Only a guess, but I would imagine a square stern narrowboat fitted with a turntable upfront would be a bit too specialist and may therefore be very hard to eventually sell.

 

If I wanted a liveaboard with bike storage, I think I would see a trad with a long front deck as the most practical compromise.

[bottle]

 

Slightly of the square stern discussion but to do with loading the motor-bike.

 

A few years ago on the 'Waterworld' program there was couple, with a small version of the american cruiser bike (Honda aspencade style) that used something similar to the above, without the legs.

 

The vertical mounting pole was placed through a hole in the gunnel (gunwhale) into a mount tube welded to the deck and underside of the gunnel (gunwhale)

 

With the help of his partner the bike was hoisted and placed in the well deck, the boat healed over at an alarming angle as the bike was lifted but they were well practiced.

[William Martin]

"All this crap about it being right, or it being wrong.. is a load of bull... it all depends on what YOU want."

 

 

The point of the thread was that the originator did not fully know what he wanted and was seeking various aspects and inputs to help form a final conclusion. Hopefully he now has a much more "rounded" perspective from which to make his decision :-)

[tomsk]

I always thought that the Supermarine Spitfire was one of the most beautiful things ever created. A gentlemens aeronautical carridge for firing guns.

 

 

With undercarrage by RJ Michell

[blackrose]

I thought the topic starter saw the square stern as a way of accommodating the storage of a motorbike upfront, rather than a personal preference. I also thought he was just after idea's on the pro's and cons of this before he decided.

 

Ok, fair point. All I was trying to say was that we all like different things, some like square sterns, some don't.

[William Martin]

"If I wanted a liveaboard with bike storage, I think I would see a trad with a long front deck as the most practical compromise."

 

 

Best suggestion yet - a tug style trad - then you get a really beautiful boat with strong resale value that still does the job. You know it makes sense!

[Lesd]

or a cruiser sterned widebeam....you be able to turn it around easily on there lol

[William Martin]

A wide beam! - you could ride the bike up and down inside - while dreaming of all the canals you can never go on!

[Collectors]

I thought the topic starter saw the square stern as a way of accommodating the storage of a motorbike upfront, rather than a personal preference. I also thought he was just after idea's on the pro's and cons of this before he decided.

 

Personally I don't mind square(ish) sterns on some boats(Sea-Otters spring to mind) but according to a couple of brokers I have spoken too they are definately harder too sell, moreso if they are on longish boats.

 

Only a guess, but I would imagine a square stern narrowboat fitted with a turntable upfront would be a bit too specialist and may therefore be very hard to eventually sell.

 

If I wanted a liveaboard with bike storage, I think I would see a trad with a long front deck as the most practical compromise.

 

Hi David, can see were your coming from with the engine hoist. There’s one that also nearly fits the bill at this link http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,125.htm But as you say, with some heavy duty 50/60 mm tube & maybe even a couple of 50/60mm axle bearings to ease the swing, it could be achieved at a very reasonable cost .

Have made up a little diagram to see if this is what you where thinking. http://www.collectors-info.com/bh.html The only thing I am not sure on is how stable it may be for the boat & if I would end up needing an out rigger to the bank.

Ah! Skip the last parts. Just got an email from another member of the forum that’s having one built that has had this done to enable a bike. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/COL...toutonaboat.jpg Looks like a good idea when doing it at the build stage. Think he said the opening was about 27” & I think I would make it 32” to allow the possible use of a wheel chair access & sack barrows with heavy loads. (May be handy). He has also made this the same on both sides of the boat. There’s me thinking of getting over the gunwale problem & he literally removed the problem. (Simple) Looks like the builder has done a nice job & kept a lot of the lines of the boat. Even looks like he has dovetailed the top of the gunwale. (Nice)

 

 

Chris.

PS. Sorry I didn’t get back sooner. But the forum wouldn’t let me log in. All sorted now. Think I am under a different name now?.

[david and julie]

To be honest Chris/Collectors. I think any of the suggestions would be preferable to a turntable.

 

Just the stern to consider now. Remember that a 57ft cruiser, with an extended bow, will mean a smallish cabin for a liveaboard boat. So you may have to think about cross beds/baths etc in your design.

 

Our 53ft semi trad (same length stern as a cruiser) has a 6ft bow deck, meaning the internal cabin length is only about 35ft, that said, its only for two people and we don't liveaboard all the time.