Shads BCN Plates

[AMModels]

 

The Harlem Shuffle would be more your thing, I guess

 

Richard

Bob and Earl, got it on 7" Island records complete with pink sleeve. I'm really not that old....

[cheshire~rose]

 

"President" and "Franklyn"

 

My word! President looks very different now!

[FadeToScarlet]

"President" and "Franklyn"

And Willow off to one side, trimmed off

[Tiggers]

Thanks for the great pictures everyone. As I have said, the rebuild of Shads cabin (including sheering, handrails, panelling, gunwales) is almost complete so were getting to the painting point and its always useful to have plenty of references. And again, I am aware of how BW 'used' to treat their boats, but believe it or not, things are changing

[Timleech]

Thanks for the great pictures everyone. As I have said, the rebuild of Shads cabin (including sheering, handrails, panelling, gunwales) is almost complete so were getting to the painting point and its always useful to have plenty of references. And again, I am aware of how BW 'used' to treat their boats, but believe it or not, things are changing

I assume Laurence's picture must be from before mine, ie before the boat was in the Willow Wren fleet. At that time there was a real surplus of Narrow Boats, half-decent composite boats changed hands for a few hundred pounds. We tried tendering for a couple of them from BW in 1964/5, but prices were just starting to creep up beyond what we, as a group of schoolboys, could manage. It would be unreasonable to expect anyone to keep a fleet of more or less redundant boats in immaculate condition.

 

Tim

[FMC Ling 317]

This how BW looked after their boats!! You can see the BCN plate in this photo which should still be with the boat.

 

Are you referring to the boat in the centre of the photo? On the chimney side of the engine ole bulkhead? Looks to me like an outline where a plate used to reside. Though even if the plate is still there but painted over in blue, I don't see why you mention that it should still be with the boat, as that is Holland with President to the left of the photo

[cheshire~rose]

Please forgive my ignorance here but I was assuming that Lawrence knew what boats were in his photo because he had recorded the information on a photo that he owns and possibly took himself.

I cannot see any legible names on any of the boats in that image. I know those of you know their stuff can often identify a boat by a particular characteristic narrowed down by the obvious things like the type of boat or the livery. I have also seen identification narrowed down by identification of what part of the network a boat is on during a particular era but in this photo how does one even start to identify the boats if (like me) you don't have a clue.

 

I would love to think I might come across an old photo like that with Python in it one day - but while I can tell none of them could be Python I have no idea how I would be certain if I spotted one that looked a bit like her in a grainy old photo like that one that has such historical significance.

[Laurence Hogg]

I assume Laurence's picture must be from before mine, ie before the boat was in the Willow Wren fleet. At that time there was a real surplus of Narrow Boats, half-decent composite boats changed hands for a few hundred pounds. We tried tendering for a couple of them from BW in 1964/5, but prices were just starting to creep up beyond what we, as a group of schoolboys, could manage. It would be unreasonable to expect anyone to keep a fleet of more or less redundant boats in immaculate condition.

 

Tim

Interesting this Tim, mine is around 1972/3 when the boats were about to be sold off by BW. Its one of several pictures I have taken the same day, why the BCN plate is not on the boat in your pic is a bit of a mystery. Shad was there with "Franklyn" (Holland?) a Severner which was "Pine", President or what was supposed to be President, a Josher moptor on the dock that got chopped up (ex crane boat) and a Cowburn and Cowper was also on the dock. There was half a forecabin butty too.

Please forgive my ignorance here but I was assuming that Lawrence knew what boats were in his photo because he had recorded the information on a photo that he owns and possibly took himself.

I cannot see any legible names on any of the boats in that image. I know those of you know their stuff can often identify a boat by a particular characteristic narrowed down by the obvious things like the type of boat or the livery. I have also seen identification narrowed down by identification of what part of the network a boat is on during a particular era but in this photo how does one even start to identify the boats if (like me) you don't have a clue.

 

I would love to think I might come across an old photo like that with Python in it one day - but while I can tell none of them could be Python I have no idea how I would be certain if I spotted one that looked a bit like her in a grainy old photo like that one that has such historical significance.

I have a series of shots took that day, the boat was definatly Shad, paintwork was in a terrible state as you can see.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Laurence Hogg

[Carl Ryan]

I thought this picture was taken in the mid seventies. I took it but did not write down the date.

 

[FMC Ling 317]

at what point then was Shad moved and Holland put alongside President?

[Carl Ryan]

This rather poor quality photo was taken at a similar time to the last and as you can see the boats moved around the yard. I seem to remember that they were often sunk and then pumped out again.

 

 

Carl

[FMC Ling 317]

This rather poor quality photo was taken at a similar time to the last and as you can see the boats moved around the yard. I seem to remember that they were often sunk and then pumped out again.

 

 

Carl

Thankyou this actually backs up what i'm saying as boat that Laurance is saying is Shad and I'm saying is Holland is clearly in bw colours

[djgoode1980]

Interesting this Tim, mine is around 1972/3 when the boats were about to be sold off by BW. Its one of several pictures I have taken the same day, why the BCN plate is not on the boat in your pic is a bit of a mystery. Shad was there with "Franklyn" (Holland?) a Severner which was "Pine", President or what was supposed to be President, a Josher moptor on the dock that got chopped up (ex crane boat) and a Cowburn and Cowper was also on the dock. There was half a forecabin butty too.

I have a series of shots took that day, the boat was definatly Shad, paintwork was in a terrible state as you can see.

this photo was taken also in 1973 around the time of Presidents sale showing the Severner Willow along side Holland which in turn is next to President. On the same day a pic was also taken from the bows at a similar angle which when I get the chance will post. This if you look at it has the same identifying marks as the one posted by Laurence i.e the rot on the cant to the left and the rust on the yellow to the right. Also note the bottom of the swans neck sits on (at this late hour I'm going to call a cup). where as the photos of Shad in Anderton colours show the rudder post between the two. Also Shad has a step in the pics Holland does not and the biggest clue is Shad has 5 planks to the back of the cabin where as Holland has 4.

[FadeToScarlet]

this photo was taken also in 1973 around the time of Presidents sale showing the Severner Willow along side Holland which in turn is next to President. On the same day a pic was also taken from the bows at a similar angle which when I get the chance will post. This if you look at it has the same identifying marks as the one posted by Laurence i.e the rot on the cant to the left and the rust on the yellow to the right. Also note the bottom of the swans neck sits on (at this late hour I'm going to call a cup). where as the photos of Shad in Anderton colours show the rudder post between the two. Also Shad has a step in the pics Holland does not and the biggest clue is Shad has 5 planks to the back of the cabin where as Holland has 4.

Nice to see that photo, Dave, I'd not seen it before. Shows some nice details of the cabin. Do you own the copyright for the photo? I'd like to use it for the blog.

 

One day, if we get Willow to Braunston, we'll have to get a photo of President, Holland, and Willow together, all three restored.

[Timleech]

If Laurence's photo is post-Anderton CCCo., it seems very unlikely that it has the Shad in it. BW may have done some daft things, but I don't think they will have painted over the ACCCo paint with shabby BW colours on a boat that was pretty much derelict...

 

Tim

Edited October 6, 2013 by Timleech

[archie57]

It was about this period in time when I turned up at Hayhurst yard one day to see a steaming pile of scrap on the bank that had once been the "Leopard" - identifiable by the name on the pieces of top bends.

[Laurence Hogg]

I think the caption on my photos is wrong too, I agree with Tim, it cannot be Shad as she was derelict in ACC colours for a fair time. Below is another shot showing Willow, Franklyn and President.

 

 

At the time of this Leopard was still in ine piece on the dock.

 

 

Aberrstwyth was there too:

 

 

Took same time at Preston Brook!

[FMC Ling 317]

I think the caption on my photos is wrong too, I agree with Tim, it cannot be Shad as she was derelict in ACC colours for a fair time. Below is another shot showing Willow, Franklyn and President.

 

 

At the time of this Leopard was still in ine piece on the dock.

 

 

Aberrstwyth was there too:

 

 

Took same time at Preston Brook!

Nice to see the fog is clearing Mr Hogg but its still Holland in the photo and not Franklyn. Franklyn is what Barlows re named Vanguard which is clearly not the boat next to President as it has a canted rudder stock

[Laurence Hogg]

Nice to see the fog is clearing Mr Hogg but its still Holland in the photo and not Franklyn. Franklyn is what Barlows re named Vanguard which is clearly not the boat next to President as it has a canted rudder stock

 

No fog round here pal, just a mis captioned picture from 40 years ago. Sorry but no boat called Holland was there to my knowledge - and there are more pictures than what is here, have you a photo showing the name? There was definatly a "Franklyn" in Northwich at this time.

[FMC Ling 317]

Now what did you say regarding a little research for the positioning of my bcn plates.

 

After doing said research I discover that this has already been through a couple of years ago

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42879&hl=%2Bhayhurst+%2Byard+%2Bnortwich+%2Bmemories

 

Yet you still Identify Holland as Shad and Willow as Oak the station boat I admit I do not know so this could of had Franklyn written on her (Though there was no station boat listed as Franklyn)

 

As for photos no I do not have any of this scene but as I have been told this is Holland and the boat there clearly has a Saltly fore end and a Northwich Stern I see no reason to argue with Pete Harrison

[Tiggers]

So Shad's plate wasnt given to you by a friend then!

[FMC Ling 317]

So Shad's plate wasnt given to you by a friend then!

Isn't it amazing what a little research turns up

[Chris-B]

As an update on this saga :

Peter wakeham ( fmc Baron) has returned the plate to me, his cost of purchase has been covered by several very kind donations

the plate will be given to Michael Pinnock on Wednesday as he is Port bound on Friday where it will be reunited with Shad

 

It serves no purpose for recriminations over this matter as we are all on the cut together, for my part I am happy that the plate is going home

 

Thank you to all who either donated and cared

 

Chris Bennett

Edited October 7, 2013 by Chris-B

[Laurence Hogg]

Now what did you say regarding a little research for the positioning of my bcn plates.

 

After doing said research I discover that this has already been through a couple of years ago

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42879&hl=%2Bhayhurst+%2Byard+%2Bnortwich+%2Bmemories

 

Yet you still Identify Holland as Shad and Willow as Oak the station boat I admit I do not know so this could of had Franklyn written on her (Though there was no station boat listed as Franklyn)

 

As for photos no I do not have any of this scene but as I have been told this is Holland and the boat there clearly has a Saltly fore end and a Northwich Stern I see no reason to argue with Pete Harrison

 

Holland appeared to have had the name "Franklyn" on it at the time, it wasnt the only time I saw a Josher motor with that name on. There were other boats misnamed in the area at the same time too,

Here is full length "Apollo" emerging from the north of Harecastle tunnel. Except do we know a Cowburn and Cowpar with this name?

Oh and theres a new version of a BW livery for someone to copy!

 

[FMC Ling 317]

Apparently Swift was re named Apollo