PRM Gearbox issue

[nicknorman]

Has that not already been eliminated by disconnecting the cable?

Not sure. If the cable is disconnected it can move freely but bind when subject to the normal load of having to move the gearbox lever. I'm not clear whether the stiffness felt at the gearbox lever reflects the same stiffness pattern felt at the control lever.

[mark99]

Not sure. If the cable is disconnected it can move freely but bind when subject to the normal load of having to move the gearbox lever. I'm not clear whether the stiffness felt at the gearbox lever reflects the same stiffness pattern felt at the control lever.

My understanding was the OP removed cable and then used the lever on gearbox by hand and felt the same resistance? over to you OP?

[DeanS]

My understanding was the OP removed cable and then used the lever on gearbox by hand and felt the same resistance? over to you OP?

 

yes, disconnecting the cable, the selector handle thingie (outside the engine) moved very smoothly again through all positions, but moving the lever on the gearbox (with engine off) it was very tough to move..and felt "grindy"..and hard to push...about the same effort as trying to get a tight lid off a bottle.....

Edited July 7, 2013 by DeanS

[mark99]

Ok Dean - also is it too much of a coincidence that you were working on it and then it's gone wrong? or was it always like this which made you change the oil?

[bizzard]

Sounds possibly like some manufacturing or running in metal swarf jambing the control valve, its worth a flush out.

[mark99]

Sounds possibly like some manufacturing or running in metal swarf jambing the control valve, its worth a flush out.

Have a good look at that straw too Dean - if you still got it - a post mortem

[nicknorman]

Sounds possibly like some manufacturing or running in metal swarf jambing the control valve, its worth a flush out.

Yes, however if its a brand new box I would be getting it looked at under warranty. If there is swarf in the hydraulic valve it might have damaged the sealing surfaces.

[DeanS]

All I did was drain the old oil out the bottom hole, and refill to the max mark on the stick.

The straw didnt end up in the gearbox:)

The boat has never put the gearbox through it's paces. It's only cruised a small distance since April, and this is it's first real run....the Wigan flight means a lot of gearbox action in and between locks.....

 

I'm phoning the suppliers on Mon.

 

I dont want to stay in Wigan, so I'm going to keep travelling...it does go into gear, so if I put it in forward gear , is it safe enough to keep cruising?

[nicknorman]

All I did was drain the old oil out the bottom hole, and refill to the max mark on the stick.

The straw didnt end up in the gearbox:)

The boat has never put the gearbox through it's paces. It's only cruised a small distance since April, and this is it's first real run....the Wigan flight means a lot of gearbox action in and between locks.....

 

I'm phoning the suppliers on Mon.

 

I dont want to stay in Wigan, so I'm going to keep travelling...it does go into gear, so if I put it in forward gear , is it safe enough to keep cruising?

Yes, should be unless you have to do an emergency stop!

[RLWP]

Richard, don't forget this is a nearly new gearbox so unlikely to be crudded up, but could be a manufacturing defect covered by warranty.

 

I hadn't forgotten, crap mixed into the locking mechanism isn't going to invalidate a warranty and would be quick to fix

 

It's more likely it's something in the valve though

 

Richard

[DeanS]

I've been all over town ...Halfords...and ASDA...and picked up some 5W30 Castrol GTX oil. The only 10W30 oil in town is a super motorcycle oil, which I'm sure isnt meant for boats. The oil I've gotten uncruds any crud. I've removed all the old oil (which is 2 days old) and refilled it. Going to put it into gear and leave Wigan, and hope for the best, and see if a phone call is still needed to the suppliers in the morning.

[DeanS]

update. LongSufferingWife says we dont need to be anywhere by tomorrow, so staying put...till we've contacted PRM/whoever tomorrow Women can be quite logical at times.

[waggers]

You can take the lever off without too much risk. Remove the nut (13mm AF) and take off the lever. Watch out for the ball and spring when you do it. The spring won't fly out, the ball might drop out. Make sure the ball, spring and lever are nice and clean.

 

If that doesn't fix it, the next thing would be to pull the selector valve out. Do the lever thing first

 

Richard

I had the same thing happen to me a month or two after I had my techno drive replaced for a prm. I was going to do as Richard suggested above, but first I used a paint brush to coat some grease between the lever and detent ball,moved a few times and then worked some more grease in. been fine for 18 months now.

worth a try

waggers

[DeanS]

After rechanging the oil today, here is the update on exactly what it is doing:

 

Starting in idle position.

Move handle to first click forward. Prop engages and turns.

Move handle past first click. Smooth. Prop turns faster.

Bring handle back to first click. Prop slows.

Bring handle back to idle. Prop stops turning.

Move handle back to reverse first click. Smooth. Prop engages in reverse.

Move handle back past first click reverse. Prop turns faster.

Move handle back to reverse first click. Smooth enough. Prop slows, still reversing.

Try move handle back to idle...stuck....grab with 2 hands and force it ...returns to idle. (this is the worrying part).

 

Anyway, will phone tomorrow and see what's said.

 

On a bright note, Wigan top lock is lovely and quiet in the sun, so we had a gas barbecue...crumbed chicken and stir fry...deck chairs on the grass.coke...perfection. It's actually EXACTLY what I was wanting to do on this trip, so ALL GOOD...LOL.

[mark99]

So what happened then is it resolved?

[tugby]

Same as Waggers just said.

 

I had exactly same symptom and it was very simply a tiny build up of debris/corrosion between the gear selector lever on the gearbox and the gearbox casting in way of the detent ball. A liberal squirt of oil between the two and worked backwards and forwards several times. Quick fix and just like new.

 

Problem was inherited from the previous owner who had not used the boat much at all.

 

Good luck.

[nicknorman]

So what happened then is it resolved?

Same as Waggers just said..

Don't hassle him, Dean is in deep thought with several computers and advisors, planning his next lock transit. If you distract him now, it will surely spell disaster.

Edited July 15, 2013 by nicknorman

[DeanS]

The latest is...

 

At the top of the Wigan flight I pulled over for the weekend....stiff gearbox lever. Was worried about the PRM warantee, should I carry on etc. Monday morning, I contacted EnginePlus (the engine suppliers) and waited for their tech guy to call back. He didnt, but their sales guy said he had sent a ticket to PRM. PRM phoned me back, and I explained the issue. They didnt want to send a guy all the way to check on a stiff lever issue, and said my warantee would be intact if:

 

1. I carried on to Leeds

2. I loosened the lever 13mm nut slightly.

 

I decided to just keep going. I can whack the gearstick from reverse back into idle with some force, but it's definately going to be something I'll get the dealer to "send his man out to check/fix" when I'm closer to Manchester again. Right now, I'm happy enough with it.

 

Nick.......do you respond like this to everyone who disagrees with you? OK, you win, your version of reality is the only version. Happy now?

 

 

ps....Yes, squirting some oil between the lever and gearbox is something I'll try. I was a little worried that it might block some of the hydraulic routing holes which apparently sit behind the lever, but obviously not?

Edited July 15, 2013 by DeanS

[nicknorman]

Nick.......do you respond like this to everyone who disagrees with you?

 

Yes, I try to use humour rather than being rude, such as:

 

and Nick...I dont often say this on the forum, but you really are talking hogwash

And as to

OK, you win, your version of reality is the only version. Happy now?

the answer is Yes Edited July 15, 2013 by nicknorman

[tugby]

Dean,

 

As far as I recall, the first thing going 'into' the gearbox behind the selector lever is a small o ring seal on the selector shaft, so that keeps muck out of gearbox. It is separate from the problem area around the detente ball.

 

If you have the PRM manual with the drawings in it, the bits we are talking about are-

C4 operating lever

C5 steel ball 6mm

C1 spacer

C12 'o' ring

 

Etc.

 

The grating sound when operating the lever in my case was from the area around the spring actuated detente steel ball.

 

Whilst we are talking about that particular seal, C12. On another occasion after we had put a "few" hours on the gearbox some years later we started to get a small but persistent oil leak out of there. Didn't understand the arrangement at that time so just kept cleaning it up. Then, one day the oil ring failed (split) and it leaked profusely. Expecting a big bill, I called in at the boatyard at the top of Stockton locks to get it sorted. Twenty minutes later and just £10 lighter it was fixed with a new seal and was leak free once again. Great service.

 

Good luck,

 

Bob.

[tugby]

and the final result was...?

[DeanS]

and the final result was...?

 

Me...leaving it as is for now...on the way to Leeds.....planning to squirt some oil down it shortly (behind the lever) and see if it loosens up. When I get back to Manchester, I'll get the dealer to sort it out properly. I'm not removing levers and losing springs and balls...

[tugby]

Ok, good luck with the oil can.

[DeanS]

Some feedback. I put a few drops of oil down the back of the lever on the PRM gearbox....and it took some time to work...but today it's suddenly free-ed up and everything is working wonderfully. Thanks for everyones comments.....I was really concerned...but its amazing what a few drops of oil in the right place can do

[tugby]

Great news, nothing like a simple free fix to brighten up a day :-)