operating locks

[mikevye]

Interested to see an owner narrowboat at grindley bottom lock with enough crew onboard nose up to the lock gates and open the gates using engine power alone with no assistance from the crew member who had emptied the lock. In fairness the boat named bertnmary or something similar hardly jolted the gates but any first timer seeing this action might consider it to be the norm and potentially damage the gates through inexperience when they tried the same trick. Didn't hang around to see if they repeated the action but I bet they didn't do it in the staircase under the supervision of the lockmeister. Any thoughts on this or other questionable practices?

[charles123]

Interested to see an owner narrowboat at grindley bottom lock with enough crew onboard nose up to the lock gates and open the gates using engine power alone with no assistance from the crew member who had emptied the lock. In fairness the boat named bertnmary or something similar hardly jolted the gates but any first timer seeing this action might consider it to be the norm and potentially damage the gates through inexperience when they tried the same trick. Didn't hang around to see if they repeated the action but I bet they didn't do it in the staircase under the supervision of the lockmeister. Any thoughts on this or other questionable practices?

 

I have to say I have many times used engine power to open gates that my crew member was strugling with sometimes giving the gates quite a jolt. I think they are so sturdily built it would do little harm. Then there have been times when I you see your crew member start to open the gate but arrive a little before they are fully open and give them a nudge, again dont see the harm

 

Charles

[William Martin]

It was standard practice in the days of commercial operations, was it not?

 

Done properly (gently) it is not an issue. The real issue is that any Joe Public can take 20 tons of NB out on the cut and bang about to his hearts content.

[alan_fincher]

Interested to see an owner narrowboat at grindley bottom lock with enough crew onboard nose up to the lock gates and open the gates using engine power alone with no assistance from the crew member who had emptied the lock. In fairness the boat named bertnmary or something similar hardly jolted the gates but any first timer seeing this action might consider it to be the norm and potentially damage the gates through inexperience when they tried the same trick. Didn't hang around to see if they repeated the action but I bet they didn't do it in the staircase under the supervision of the lockmeister. Any thoughts on this or other questionable practices?

The old working boats seldom opened gates any other way when going up hill, I think.

 

It was highly unusual to see a boatman manually push the gates open to let the boats leave. Often significant power was used to overcome a small head of water, and speed the operation.

 

Clearly the canals have survived some 200 years of such abuse, but I still think most people would consider it relatively unacceptable these days.

 

I'd say there is no issue if the boat is already nosing the gate in low gear, but no extra throttle, and that is enough for the gate to open unaided. But if you are adding more power than that to speed the operation, I think people would start to become unhappy.

 

 

It was equally normal to see working boats open the bottom gates when descending by pulling them open with the boats. Lines attached to the mast were passed around the handrail on the gates, and a special hitch was used that stayed taught whilst the gate pulled open, but which then fell loose as the boat moved forward. The lines fell back onto the boats, generally, (or even trailed in the cut, if they fell down a boat with sidecloths - they were too short to risk fouling the propellor).

 

I think a few people still practice this today, but again BW would probably not condone it any more.

 

Alan

[roger]

I think a few people still practice this today, but again BW would probably not condone it any more.

 

Alan

 

I think you ought to see the large number of commercial operators in the London area! Rarely are the gates opened by manpower going upstream.

[Waterways Jim]

Personally, I think we should all set a good example to Joe Public and operate locks manually.

[Hairy-Neil]

I've been ticked off by a BW operative for closing bottom gates with the cabin shaft after leaving the lock.

 

I thought it was better than leaving them open........

Edited September 25, 2006 by Hairy-Neil

[gaggle]

some gates need a nudge,a man commented to me that i must have had my weetabix as i pushed a gate open by myself,he had just passed through it and had four people trying to push it open.

the general rule is if you are on your own with no chance of help the gate will stick,more so if a few pensioners have gathered to watch the boats going past.

[Sir Nibble]

I have to say that I have encountered a few locks where if you aren't willing to bang them about a bit, you'll be there all day. Thinking particularly of self closing and self opening gates.

[alan_fincher]

I've been ticked off by a BW operative for closing bottom gates with the cabin shaft after leaving the lock.

 

I thought it was better than leaving them open........:0

I must admit that when entering broad lock from the top, with one gate only open, it never seems to matter how slowly or accurately I do it, that second gate generally desides to drift open as I pass, (pushed open, presumably, by the water that I'm displacing out of the lock as I enter it....).

 

So I regularly use a shaft with a hook to grab it by the handrail, as I drift slowly in, and ensure it comes shut behind me.

 

This avoids the long walk around the lock, (or having to push the boats stern over to that side), to shut it before drawing lower paddles.

 

I think the shaft would damage before the handrail did, (or more likely I'd be forced to let go of it), if I misjuddged things, but I'm still careful not to do it if BWB staff are watching

 

[i'm just waiting for someone to tell me I risk getting hauled out of my trad stern hatchway, and into an Alweras style accident now!.... ]

[Hairy-Neil]

Some have a strapping post on the top, Shroppie comes to mind. These were used to stop downhill loaded boats in horse boat days and also close the gate at the same time. I've no personal experience of it but I've heard of friends being chastised for using them for the actual intended purpose.

[Hairy-Neil]

Some have a strapping post on the top, Shroppie comes to mind. These were used to stop downhill loaded boats in horse boat days and also close the gate at the same time. I've no personal experience of it but I've heard of friends being chastised for using them for the actual intended purpose.

 

Another time I remember the crew were bowhauling the butty down the Wolverhampton 21 with a long line. The BW man was upskittled off his bike when he rode straight through the line. I was probably ahead working the motor at the time so didn't see the incident.

[Guest]

Afraid I tend to open them with the boat carefully cause both my wife and self are back sufferers. I don't believe it causes any harm to the gates if you take care. I tend to set the boat at just above tickover against the gate and generally they ease open. Some of the Leeds Liverpool gates wouldn't open any other way!

[bottle]

Something that has not been mentioned yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,When opening gates with boat ensure there are no gongoozlers between the balance beam and the lock

[Paul Evans]

Something that has not been mentioned yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,When opening gates with boat ensure there are no gongoozlers between the balance beam and the lock

Why? It's such fun to watch them scamper!

[DHutch]

We also have been know to use the boat to assist the opening of gates when going up hill.

- Usally not the bottom ones, as they are ussally fairly easy, put i see no harm in gently nosing up against the top gate on the way out.

 

We also often strap into locks, and having been know to hold the othergate of a broadlock shut with a hook, both when going in, and out of th lock (down hill)

 

People are often easy to jump up and down with the mal-practice brush when somone starts doing something slightly off the beaten track.

- However, if its not doing anyone, or anything any great hard, and not putting anyone at any great risk, i dont really see it as a problem.

 

 

Its like the people who moan and stare when you lacuer the brasses. There all mouth when you there with the lacuer brush, but they never oftered when the brasso was out did they!

- They usally pipedown when i say called of that i used a paintstripper wheel to get them the colour in the first place!

 

 

 

Daniel

[mikevye]

Note that since the thread was started the Caen Flight on the K&A has been closed due to a collision between the gates and a boat, the gate damaged beyond repair, just wonder if the perpertrators gentle push was his/her norm and more gates will be damaged?

[David Schweizer]

I will probably be shot down by newcomers who only know (or think they know) how to operate locks from the rules that BW try to perpetrate these days. But as someone who crewed an ex-Working boat on the Grand Union in the 1960's, I was taught all the labour saving tricks known to working boatmen by our Captain, This included opening gates with the boat going uphill, Strapping off to stop the boat when entering a lock downhill, thumblining (opening bottom gates with ropes) when going downhill, and closing bottom gates with poles when going uphill.

 

Without exception, we also always left locks with gates open and paddles up. The working boats always sent a man ahead on a bicycle (and yes it nearly always was a man, not a child or a woman) lockwheeling, there was always plenty of time for him to drop the paddles (not wind them down) and if the lock needed turning, to close the gates and fill the lock before the boat arrived.

 

I accept the arguement that beginners may try to imitate methods that could be potentially dangerous or damaging when undertaken by an untrained person, but that is not a good reason for trying to stop someone whio knows what they are doing from using such methods. I still use some of these traditional methods today, but I always make it clear to onlookers that they should not immitate me if they have not been shown how to do it propoerly.

[Stephen Fulcher]

I think that the danger is not the practices themselves, it is people who have not got a clue attempting to use them. I would theorise that David is in a position that very very few boaters, even private ones, are in. This is that he was shown by people who clearly knew what they were doing, and also the dangers of it.

 

It is quite often you see people who approach a lock in a smug manner, do something like ram a gate, drop a paddle etc. and end up making a complete pratt of themselves. The trouble is that one day they may lose their windlass or snap a pole, but the next we may have a Caen Hill-type incident.

 

The other worrying thing I have noticed recently, is the ridiculous number of people who leave windlasses on paddle gear unattended. This is clearly dangerous, and to be honest even the most inexperienced boater should know better because common sense dictates that if the paddle were to drop for some reason (like on one occasion when I saw a boater raise a paddle and not apply the catch, so it consequently dropped straight back down again) then the windlass will most likely fly around as a very dangerous projectile. If this is to happen then they might get lucky and it could land harmlessly on the towpath or even in the canal, but there is also a chance that it could hit someone causing a potentially serious injury.

[DHutch]

The other worrying thing I have noticed recently, is the ridiculous number of people who leave windlasses on paddle gear unattended.

Yeah, its maddness.

- There was a "carefree crusiing" boat, with some potential customers having tuition on how to opertate a lock.

- Not only was the guy letting them leave the windlass on the gear, he was going so himself, as well as giving the much other inapropreate advise, and not filling them in for the reasons for doing the things he was telling them to. Like why they wherent opening the paddle all the way in one go, and how locks can vary, nothing.

 

I felt that strongly about it i actally aproached his customers, and explaned the situation directly to them, and them informed him of his bad practice.

 

Some paddles are very heavy, and i have seen a windless left on some gear (that then slipped) be thrown about 10meters down the lockside, skittering to a hold infront of it owner.

- If they had been standing closer, and it had been struck by it, they would have got a fair old clout i can tell you. In the head, it could be very serouse.

- Alterntivly, you keep you hand on it, it comes round and clouts you one then, and you get a nasty thwack, and at worse a soar hand for a few days. POssably worse.

 

 

Daniel

[Supermalc]

Holding a NB in a lock with the engine can also be a dangerous practice, although so common it is almost the norm. A NB was being held this way while someone was opening the gate by hand, the boat was going up. When the NB moved towards the parly opened gate, it was put in reverse, but THE LINKAGE BROKE, leaving it in forward. The engine was of course revved to stop it, resulting in it ramming the gate hard. The person opening the gate was thrown off their feet, and only luck prevented serious injury, or death. Had they been standing in the wrong postion they would have been thrown into the canal, probably between the side and the NB, with a strong possibility of being crushed.

 

 

 

Common sense (as the name implies, a sense common to all of us) is sadly lost by many today.

 

The method used by working boatmen is perfectly safe and acceptable. It has only become unacceptable because of the vast number of boaters who have lost this sense.

 

Familiarity breeds contempt is also a saying to be remembered. As the 2 locks I regularly use have the windless permently attached, I have become used to never having to take one, or take it off. So when I started having to use one last year, on the trip to Foxton, I found myself leaving it on for a while. Now I've taught myself to remove it, and carry it with me, but it took a day or two.

 

We all make mistakes, the trick is to try to minimise them, and learn from them.

[Hairy-Neil]

The other worrying thing I have noticed recently, is the ridiculous number of people who leave windlasses on paddle gear unattended. .....

 

Another one I see regularly by boaters across the board, hirers to owners. Using the large windlass hole on the small tapered spindle.......

[David Schweizer]

Holding a NB in a lock with the engine can also be a dangerous practice, although so common it is almost the norm. A NB was being held this way while someone was opening the gate by hand, the boat was going up. When the NB moved towards the parly opened gate, it was put in reverse, but THE LINKAGE BROKE, leaving it in forward. The engine was of course revved to stop it, resulting in it ramming the gate hard. The person opening the gate was thrown off their feet, and only luck prevented serious injury, or death. Had they been standing in the wrong postion they would have been thrown into the canal, probably between the side and the NB, with a strong possibility of being crushed.

Common sense (as the name implies, a sense common to all of us) is sadly lost by many today.

 

The method used by working boatmen is perfectly safe and acceptable. It has only become unacceptable because of the vast number of boaters who have lost this sense.

 

Familiarity breeds contempt is also a saying to be remembered. As the 2 locks I regularly use have the windless permently attached, I have become used to never having to take one, or take it off. So when I started having to use one last year, on the trip to Foxton, I found myself leaving it on for a while. Now I've taught myself to remove it, and carry it with me, but it took a day or two.

 

We all make mistakes, the trick is to try to minimise them, and learn from them.

 

Are you suggesting that it is unacceptable for anyone to employ traditional working boat practices, or just those who have not learnt how to perform those practices properly?