SmartGuage

[DHutch]

Canalwise, the only other forum/group i post on really is canal-list (yahoo group) And just canals occational

- But im also member of 5 RC car forums, 3 PC forums, a very large student forum (the loughbough alone section about as big as this place, as it the engeeinring secion) and also a modle train forum, DJ forum, this list goes on!

 

 

Daniel

[Yoda]

Canalwise, the only other forum/group i post on really is canal-list (yahoo group) And just canals occational

- But im also member of 5 RC car forums, 3 PC forums, a very large student forum (the loughbough alone section about as big as this place, as it the engeeinring secion) and also a modle train forum, DJ forum, this list goes on!

Daniel

 

daniel tryu and find time to relax as well!!!

[DHutch]

daniel tryu and find time to relax as well!!!

Yeah, i do plenty of that.

- I didnt even get out of bed till gone 11 today!

- Going to see babyshambles tonight with the rest of the house.

 

 

 

Daniel

[GUMPY]

It would be nice to take your smartguage user posts at face value, Idleness. I started this thread because I wanted to hear from others who had used them. However, since you are also selling the product it would seem that your views are not entirely unbiased.

 

 

Kindly get your facts correct since as with many peoples posts on this board they are not.

I have yet to place an order with Smartgauge for stock, it was only on Thursday that I decided to go ahead and sell them as I stated in the PM I sent you.

 

ALL my posts to the forum were made in good faith, as a user, before that so I can not be accused of bias.

 

As it could be deemed that I now have an interest in the subject, I will not post on the subject of Smartgauge again.

 

J

Edited September 30, 2006 by idleness

[GUMPY]

Just out of curiosity do many of you contribute to sites other than this one, personally I think I already spend far to much time with this one.

For the record

UK.rec.waterways (since 1995)

Canals-list @yahoo and its forerunner at Blacksheep (also since 1995)

Cutweb@yahoo (since 1999 and for that one I run the list)

Also about 6 car and trackday related sites so I do speed as well as slow.

 

Oh and two of the DBA lists forgot that

 

J

Edited September 30, 2006 by idleness

[John Orentas]

Kindly get your facts correct since as with many peoples posts on this board they are not.

I have yet to place an order with Smartgauge for stock, it was only on Thursday that I decided to go ahead and sell them as I stated in the PM I sent you.

 

ALL my posts to the forum were made in good faith, as a user, before that so I can not be accused of bias.

 

As it could be deemed that I now have an interest in the subject, I will not post on the subject of Smartgauge again.

 

J

 

 

Idleness.

 

I have gone back through all your posts on this subject, nowhere did you mention or even hint at a commercial interest though on many of them you expressed an almost blind support of your friend with what now with hindsight looks very like a lot of sales patter for his product.

 

In my opinion it would have shown integrity and a basic honesty on your part if you had declared your interest at an early stage.

[GUMPY]

Idleness.

 

I have gone back through all your posts on this subject, nowhere did you mention or even hint at a commercial interest though on many of them you expressed an almost blind support of your friend with what now with hindsight looks very like a lot of sales patter for his product.

 

In my opinion it would have shown integrity and a basic honesty on your part if you had declared your interest at an early stage.

As I said in a previous post I decided to sort out supplying Smartgauge on thursday the 28th September.

If you look at my posts from that date apart from one which ststed that smartgauge will allow for batteries ageing I have made no comments about the product.

 

If you want to be really picky I still dont have an interest as I have yet to buy in any stock.

 

THAT IS MY LAsT WORD ON THE SUBJECT

Edited September 30, 2006 by idleness

[Guest]

Idleness.

 

I have gone back through all your posts on this subject, nowhere did you mention or even hint at a commercial interest though on many of them you expressed an almost blind support of your friend with what now with hindsight looks very like a lot of sales patter for his product.

 

In my opinion it would have shown integrity and a basic honesty on your part if you had declared your interest at an early stage.

Well John

I have no business or any other connection with Gibbo, Idleness, Smartgauges, fartgauges, yourself or anybody else on here. I do however think that Idleness has joined in on the debate much the way anybody else might have. Unlike most of us who joined in the debate he does actually have one of these devices. If he has chosen to supply them from this week onwards then so what? Does that mean if I became an agent for these or some other product at some later date that somebody will trawl my previous posts and say similar? I am impressed with the shellbuilders of my boat, and have said so on numerous occasions. I know the guy who built it very well. So if I speak highly of him and defend his product, as you yourself have (quite correctly in my opinion) done with Liverpool Boats then I can be accused of misusing the forum? Or if I chose to be an agent for him? Blind support of my friend?

 

If there are some such rules regarding these matters on the forum then please can they be made clear?

[len]

The problems with the server are directly related to the sending out of email. So that may well be the reason!

- The mods can manualy reset the password, and the send that to him. However why this should ever be a problem defeats me.

 

As it does me. Having had the problem pointed out to him and a reasonable request made for assistance, why has John not simply emailed out a reset password? - Or if he doesn't have the wherewithal to accomplish the task, ask someone who can - In the interest of honesty and integrity and idle curiosity it's the least that should be done.

 

- And to be honest, certainly from my point of view, his contributions to the forum has so far only put me off buy is products!

Daniel

 

No probs, your choice: But some may, in the interest of balance, want to make a more informed choice directly from the source of the product and ask for clarifications, rather than throw a hissy fit because the exact methodology remains a trade secret (and you can't blame the guy for wanting to keep it that way..) and they can't work it out for themselves.

 

 

Len

[John Orentas]

As it does me. Having had the problem pointed out to him and a reasonable request made for assistance, why has John not simply emailed out a reset password? - Or if he doesn't have the wherewithal to accomplish the task, ask someone who can - In the interest of honesty and integrity and idle curiosity it's the least that should be done.

 

 

 

No probs, your choice: But some may, in the interest of balance, want to make a more informed choice directly from the source of the product and ask for clarifications, rather than throw a hissy fit because the exact methodology remains a trade secret (and you can't blame the guy for wanting to keep it that way..) and they can't work it out for themselves.

Len

 

 

I am getting fed up with this. First I had no idea that anyone was having trouble with passwords or anything else and no-one requested any kind of assistance though quite honestly I would not have the slightest idea what to do about it if they did. Anyway why has this character suddenly developed problems with BOTH his passwords and why does he have two anyway, sounds like a bit of a tale to me.

 

Trade secrets my eye, with electronic systems it is commonplace to explain general principles without compromising intellectual property. I suspect there was some other reason for not going into any kind of explanations though I will leave others to speculate on that.

 

If anyone else feels like spreading gossip about my handling of all this I would suggest you go back and re-read the threads and tell me then if I have been unfair to anyone.

 

I must say that I am disappointed that everyone should leap to condemn me and to defend those who I would describe as a pair of rogues.

 

That is my last word on the topic.

Edited September 30, 2006 by John Orentas

[Guest]

I am defending neither you or anybody else John. Frankly I don't care either way, you can defend yourselves. I do however require clarification about the forum rules as requested in my post a liitle earlier. Has a forum rule been broken?

[blackrose]

I am getting fed up with this. First I had no idea that anyone was having trouble with passwords or anything else and no-one requested any kind of assistance though quite honestly I would not have the slightest idea what to do about it if they did. Anyway why has this character suddenly developed problems with BOTH his passwords and why does he have two anyway, sounds like a bit of a tale to me.

 

Trade secrets my eye, with electronic systems it is commonplace to explain general principles without compromising intellectual property. I suspect there was some other reason for not going into any kind of explanations though I will leave others to speculate on that.

 

If anyone else feels like spreading gossip about my handling of all this I would suggest you go back and re-read the threads and tell me then if I have been unfair to anyone.

 

I must say that I am disappointed that everyone should leap to condemn me and to defend those who I would describe as a pair of rogues.

 

That is my last word on the topic.

 

We haven't all condemned you John. I was just trying to get some user reviews of this product before shelling out for one, but, once the insults start flying around I think the discussion has gone about as far as it can. It can't be coincidental that the only members who've posted positive reviews happen to be the same people that are selling the product (irrespective of which particular day they'd decided to start the business!)

Edited September 30, 2006 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

I am getting fed up with this. First I had no idea that anyone was having trouble with passwords or anything else and no-one requested any kind of assistance though quite honestly I would not have the slightest idea what to do about it if they did. Anyway why has this character suddenly developed problems with BOTH his passwords and why does he have two anyway, sounds like a bit of a tale to me.

 

Trade secrets my eye, with electronic systems it is commonplace to explain general principles without compromising intellectual property. I suspect there was some other reason for not going into any kind of explanations though I will leave others to speculate on that.

 

If anyone else feels like spreading gossip about my handling of all this I would suggest you go back and re-read the threads and tell me then if I have been unfair to anyone.

 

I must say that I am disappointed that everyone should leap to condemn me and to defend those who I would describe as a pair of rogues.

 

That is my last word on the topic.

Well I will leap to your defence John.

 

As you know we do not always agree on everthing, but I think I can safely say that we have never resorted to abuse, which is more than I can say for that Gibbo character. Furthermore if he had really bothered to read back on your postings, he would have discovered that you have spent most of your working life in the field of electronics and electrical engineering, and are therefore more than adequately qualified to question whether claims for his Smartgauge are justifiable. I also believe that the comments by him, about you, on that site Gary has given us are offensive and rather childish.

 

I have read all his sales blurb, and that is all it is, he shares with us some fairly commonly excercised views on modern charging systems, and then tells us that he has spent a lot of money on developing a piece of equipment that none of us really need. I am not an Electricl engineer, but I have got sufficient wherewithall, to be able to read a Voltmeter and Ammeter, and know what is going on. What I would like to know is how can this so called gauge tell you what the charge level of a battery is when we all know that they take at good while to settle down before any gauge can give an accurate reading. Quite honestly if you8 need to know that urgently I would suggest investing in an hydrometer.

[blackrose]

I am not an Electricl engineer, but I have got sufficient wherewithall, to be able to read a Voltmeter and Ammeter, and know what is going on. What I would like to know is how can this so called gauge tell you what the charge level of a battery is when we all know that they take at good while to settle down before any gauge can give an accurate reading. Quite honestly if you8 need to know that urgently I would suggest investing in an hydrometer.

 

Can someone tell me a decent brand of voltmeter & ammeter and how to install and use them properly please?

 

Sorry if this seems a bit pathetic but everyone had to learn somewhere.

Edited September 30, 2006 by blackrose

[GUMPY]

Can someone tell me a decent brand of voltmeter & ammeter and how to install and use them properly please?

 

Sorry if this seems a bit pathetic but everyone had to learn somewhere.

The one you posted the link to for £99 looked fine for a volt/amp meter.

CBA to go back to look for the link but you posted it so you should have it.

 

Unbiassed advice given freely

 

 

J

[alan_fincher]

The one you posted the link to for £99 looked fine for a volt/amp meter.

CBA to go back to look for the link but you posted it so you should have it.

 

Unbiassed advice given freely

J

Yes,

 

I'm not sure where you find the price exactly....

 

I can't see it in the link, I think....

 

Repeat the link

 

This seems a pretty good compromise to me if it's sub £100.

 

It's clearly more than a voltmeter and an ammeter, because it's also tracking amps over time.

 

It will not please the doubters who think that adding a shunt into the supply has significant effect on charging ability, but it should please those who don't believe it can all be done down two wires.

 

I'm not in the market for anything this sophisticated at the moment, but on balance I'd have to go for this over the SmartGauge.

 

There's no "smoke and mirrors" here. I can see, and fully understand what it's doing, but additionally, how it's achieving it..

 

I'm just an old fashioned soul who likes to know as much as I can about how things do what they do.

 

I'm sure you could buy JUST an ammeter and voltmeter a lot cheaper than this, (I haven't looked), but it wouldn't do as much.

[blackrose]

Yes,

 

I'm not sure where you find the price exactly....

 

I can't see it in the link, I think....

 

Repeat the link

 

This seems a pretty good compromise to me if it's sub £100.

 

It's clearly more than a voltmeter and an ammeter, because it's also tracking amps over time.

 

It will not please the doubters who think that adding a shunt into the supply has significant effect on charging ability, but it should please those who don't believe it can all be done down two wires.

 

I'm not in the market for anything this sophisticated at the moment, but on balance I'd have to go for this over the SmartGauge.

 

There's no "smoke and mirrors" here. I can see, and fully understand what it's doing, but additionally, how it's achieving it..

 

I'm just an old fashioned soul who likes to know as much as I can about how things do what they do.

 

I'm sure you could buy JUST an ammeter and voltmeter a lot cheaper than this, (I haven't looked), but it wouldn't do as much.

 

Thanks. The shunt is connected to the negative - does this affect charging? http://www.nasamarine.com/Misc/Nasa__BM1_Booklet.pdf

Edited October 1, 2006 by blackrose

[bottle]

The shunt will have no effect it is only there to take the 'load' and make a connection for the instrument, other wise the whole load would go through the instrument.

 

The use of a shunt enables smaller cables for the instrument.

 

It also enable the instrument to be remotely fitted without the need to run large cabling.

 

'In-line' ammeters for example have heavy cables and the ammeter has to be designed to take the full 'load'

Edited October 1, 2006 by bottle

[NB Willawaw]

I have just been catching up with this thread.

 

A few thoughts:

 

1. If the product does work, then the market will decide for itself whether the product is needed.

2. As a whole, my experience is that very few narrowboaters read forums - the available market for this product is unlikely to be swayed one way or the other by what has been written here.

3. Sales of Smartgauge will be dictated by the marketing and distribution channels of the product.

4. If one of the big companies want to know how Smartgauge works, they will just buy one. Its not difficult to do this if you have the R+D facilities. Not telling people how it works in detail will not prevent copying. Telling people how something works doesn't allow them to go out and build one. I hope the product is protected by some form of patent.

5. Taking three years to develop something doesn't mean a lot - you could look at something twice in three years and still make this claim. If the product has been continually developed over 3 years, then presumerably this infers a lot of time and money spent in developing the product. On a product that sells for this kind of price, you will need to sell a lot to get your investment back.

6. Presumerably, something this original can be marketed worldwide in a number of industries using battery technology.

7. To enter into a slanging match with potential customers is rather unprofessional. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. If anybody oversteps the mark, there are libel laws.

8. If anybody believes that John O is deliberately blocking them from the site, then they can complain to Jon. Whingeing about it on another site like a load of girls is very geekish.

Edited October 1, 2006 by NB Willawaw

[alan_fincher]

Thnks. The shunt is connected to the negative - does this affect charging?

 

 

The shunt will have no effect it is only there to take the 'load' and make a connection for the instrument, other wise the whole load would go through the instrument.

 

I think that introducing the shunt into either cable, (positive or negative), will have the same imapct on the alternator's ability to deliver its full charging voltage.

 

It MUST introduce some volts drop, because it's a resistor with current passing through it, (Ohms Law).

 

Hopefully it will be a very small volts drop, because its a very low value resistor.

 

So it must have at least a theoretical impact on how quickly the alternator can do it's job, surely ?

 

The argument comes as to whether that volts drop is enough for the difference to be significant. My guess is that in many (most?) applications it will not be.

 

It will almost certainly have less impact than an old fashioned in-line ammeter, for the reasons Keith staes.

[John Orentas]

The more common type of shunt / voltmeter combination: Example a 100 amp reading unit would in fact be typically a 100A = 50 or 60mV Voltmeter.

 

About one twentieth of one volt drop across the shunt. The real advantage of course as everyone has said you need only light wiring to the remote indicator. You can have several shunts, a multi-position selector switch and one meter. Measuring several conductors or circuits.

[blackrose]

Yes,

 

I'm not sure where you find the price exactly....

 

I can't see it in the link, I think....

 

Repeat the link

 

This seems a pretty good compromise to me if it's sub £100.

 

It's clearly more than a voltmeter and an ammeter, because it's also tracking amps over time.

 

It will not please the doubters who think that adding a shunt into the supply has significant effect on charging ability, but it should please those who don't believe it can all be done down two wires.

 

I'm not in the market for anything this sophisticated at the moment, but on balance I'd have to go for this over the SmartGauge.

 

There's no "smoke and mirrors" here. I can see, and fully understand what it's doing, but additionally, how it's achieving it..

 

I'm just an old fashioned soul who likes to know as much as I can about how things do what they do.

 

I'm sure you could buy JUST an ammeter and voltmeter a lot cheaper than this, (I haven't looked), but it wouldn't do as much.

 

Sorry but I still don't understand how to use a voltmeter & ammeter in conjunction and what it is telling me?

Edited October 2, 2006 by blackrose

[GUMPY]

Sorry but I still don't understand how to use a voltmeter & ammeter in conjunction and what it is telling me?

 

 

refrains from saying anything

 

J

[blackrose]

refrains from saying anything

 

J

 

You're not still sulking? (refrains from trying to sell me something)

Edited October 2, 2006 by blackrose

[GUMPY]

You're not still sulking? (refrains from trying to sell me something)

 

I was never sulking, I was actually away over the weekend, so could only comment from the laptop using GPRS hence my brevity.

 

If you cant see that the link that YOU posted,

http://www.nasamarine.com/Misc/bm1.html

to the meter that YOU found, does NOT require you to know how to work out amps and volts but actually presents you with a bargraph on the right hand side of the meter that tells you roughly how much would be left in your batteries assuming that they have not become sulphated and lost capacity, then there isnt a lot of hope...................

 

 

 

J