ph2w gearbox

[kris88]

i dont know if this the right place for this thread,dont know if youd consider a ph2w a vintage engine.

anyway the problem i have is that ive lost reverse propulsion.The gearbox seems to still engage the propshaft turns but no go. it started with picking up a pick lump of weeds on the prop, very common for me on a deep drafted boat. removed the offending articles but seem to have lost reverse.

anyideas what the problem is would be very much appreciated

 

regards kris

[Timleech]

Are you really saying that the prop shaft turns in reverse, but nothing happens to the boat? If that's really the case, then your problem is with the propeller and not the gearbox. It must have come loose to the point that it's not engaging with the key, do something about it before you go any further or you are likely to lose the prop!

OR, is it just that it's turning slowly in reverse? In that case it might just be a case of readjusting the brake band.

Is it the Newage/BMC mechanical box? I think Tony Brooks is your man for those, it's about 40 years since I had anything to do with one.

 

Tim

[kris88]

It might be that its just turning slowly,it seems to be fine in forwards. I'm not shure what the box is,but its the same as every image of a ph2w on the net I can find lister/petter box? I don't know

Tony brooks how do I find him

Regards kris

[bizzard]

It might be that its just turning slowly,it seems to be fine in forwards. I'm not shure what the box is,but its the same as every image of a ph2w on the net I can find lister/petter box? I don't know

Tony brooks how do I find him

Regards kris

Does the shaft spin as fast in astern as it does in forward gear ? You may have a lose prop and a short or half worn out key so that the prop draws back off the key when astern and slams back onto it when fore gear is selected.

[kris88]

I'd have to check that one

[kris88]

If its turning slower does that mean the key is worn

 

Regards kris

[Timleech]

It might be that its just turning slowly,it seems to be fine in forwards. I'm not shure what the box is,but its the same as every image of a ph2w on the net I can find lister/petter box? I don't know

Tony brooks how do I find him

Regards kris

 

This one has the Newage/BMC box.

Tony is a member here, send him a PM if he doesn't pick up on this thread.

 

Tim

 

If its turning slower does that mean the key is worn

 

Regards kris

 

Probably means the brake band in the box is worn or out of adjustment. Simple to adjust, but it's so long since I've done it I wouldn't want to offer advice without the thing in front of me.

[kris88]

Yes that's the box Tim thanks for the reply ill pm him later

Thanks for the help

 

Regards kris

[kris88]

It definately spins faster in forwards than reverse

Regards kris

[Tony Brooks]

He told me that it is a PRM box, so no brake band. No mention of a BMC B type!

 

Does he know what he's got?

 

I thought it was odd when he said Tim thought a PRM has a brake band - now we know why.

 

I await a photo from him.

[Timleech]

Perhaps because I mentioned Newage?

 

Tim

[Tony Brooks]

Perhaps because I mentioned Newage?

 

Tim

 

Possibly but you also said B type and that was all he had to say to me. He brought PRM into it, not you.

 

To be honest I am bit p'd off. In my first reply to his message I explained that I was on expensive mobile broadband at the moment so did not want to download images but his reply was to point me to the link in this thread. He could not even be bothered to copy the link to his reply. What gets me is that by PMing me people circumvent my terms and conditions for answering questions so I do not feel able to use them to help others (in the magazine etc.) Whilst I am happy to help when I can if people want free advice its not unreasonable for me to get something in return.

[kris88]

I'm very sorry to have annoyed you tony, I wouldn't have pm,ed you if it hadn't been suggested to me. I would have added the link if I knew how,by pointing you to the thread I thought I was saving you some internet rather than sending you an individual photo. All I can say is what I have said on the pm thank you very much for the info,and I am very very sorry to have annoyed you as its not my intention to do that to any one

Regards kris

[Tony Brooks]

I'm very sorry to have annoyed you tony, I wouldn't have pm,ed you if it hadn't been suggested to me. I would have added the link if I knew how,by pointing you to the thread I thought I was saving you some internet rather than sending you an individual photo. All I can say is what I have said on the pm thank you very much for the info,and I am very very sorry to have annoyed you as its not my intention to do that to any one

Regards kris

 

Not annoyed, just a bit peeved.

 

Further thoughts last night bout doing the adjustment. If you take that square cover off I think that you will be able to see the brake band around the top half of the drum. That should help ensuring that you do not allow it to bind on the drum. You may be able to use the tip of a thin feeler gauge to ensure there is a gap between band and d rum when in neutral and ahead.

[Timleech]

Here's a link to someone else confused about BMC/Newage/PRM

 

http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-228776.html

 

Tim

[kris88]

To tell you the honest truth after reading that

I'm even more confused to which box I've got.

But at least I know how to adjust it now.its going to be early next week now.

Thanks for the help

 

Regards,kris

[RLWP]

Have you tried using Google to find pictures of the different kinds of gearbox? They look very different

 

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

To tell you the honest truth after reading that

I'm even more confused to which box I've got.

But at least I know how to adjust it now.its going to be early next week now.

Thanks for the help

 

Regards,kris

 

Refer to it as a BMC DCB or B type marine box. I think Chertsy Meads Marine may know about them and possibly have some spares.

 

There was a smaller DCA or A type but I have never seen one and also a DCC which worked differently and had a clutch lever on the gear level - a bit like an old truck handbrake. Again I have never seen one.

 

Newage were the official BMC marinisers in the 1960 & early 70s. Then Tempest seemed to take over. PRM stands for Percy Riley Motors who designed the box and I assume sold the design to Newage in the late 60s when hydraulic boxes were in more demand than manual ones. I Think PRM has been sold at least once since than. The PRM mechanical boxes are a very late design.

 

The B Type box has several very long (5/16 or 3/8 x about 6 inch) bolts holding the ahead clutch in the drum in place. These have a habit of snapping. If they have been fitted backwards (nut towards the flywheel) it is possible to remove a broken bolt so cruising can continue. Originally you had to pull the box off the engine to get the broken bolt out. They tend to slide out when broken and jamb the box.

 

Hope this clears it up

[JamesWoolcock]

This one has the Newage/BMC box.

Tony is a member here, send him a PM if he doesn't pick up on this thread.

 

Tim

 

 

Probably means the brake band in the box is worn or out of adjustment. Simple to adjust, but it's so long since I've done it I wouldn't want to offer advice without the thing in front of me.

If it is like the box in this pic, I had a PHW2 in my last boat STAR. The reverse gear needed adjustment annually as the gear rod came further and further back till you banged your knuckles in the winter or rain with the hatches closed behind you! You will have to have a look at the PHW2 handbook, must be available somewhere. It's not a difficult job but requires a spring balance to get it right.

 

James

[kris88]

Oh that's thrown me off, I thought I knew what I was doing in the process of acquiring the right spanner for the two hexagonal locking nuts on either side are you saying that's not right James

Regards kris

[JamesWoolcock]

Oh that's thrown me off, I thought I knew what I was doing in the process of acquiring the right spanner for the two hexagonal locking nuts on either side are you saying that's not right James

Regards kris

Hi Kris.

 

I seem to recall that you need to adjust three toggles, but I may be wrong. It was a few years ago. The Petters/Hawker Sidderley engine manual, which includes the box, has every thing you need to know. I assume (dangerous territory of course) that you haven't got one. Try Peter Thompson at Marine Services in Uxbridge, or just Google! But make sure you get a marine manual, derivatives of these engines went into all sorts of things including very many dump trucks! And a good source of spares not to ignored!

 

James

[kris88]

Your assumptions about the manual are right ,there aren't three toggles just one on each side of the box and then a plate on top

Regards kris

[Timleech]

Your assumptions about the manual are right ,there aren't three toggles just one on each side of the box and then a plate on top

Regards kris

 

The toggles are presumably the 'fingers' inside the box for ahead operation and adjustment.

 

Tim

[kris88]

I seem to have sorted it although ill try it fully tmw and let you know

Regards kris

[kris88]

Hurray definately okay thank you to everybody for the help

Regards kris