Gas Fittings

[Chris Pink]

I have a 10mm metric gas pipe. I recently acquired a Stratford oven with a 1/4" armoured hose and a nursery tap. What's the easiest - read safest - way to patch this into the 10mm line.

 

I've had a trawl through the Wade catalogue and my first thought is; a 10mm equal T with a 10-6mm reducing set, a small piece of 6mm pipe followed by a 6mm to 1/4" coupling followed by a small piece of 1/4" pipe to the nursery tap.

 

The other problem I'm finding is sourcing a 1/4" armoured hose as the one on there is of uncertain age and I'd like to replace it for piece of mind.

.

There are no BSS issues so perhaps we can short circuit that part of the conversation.

 

Being no BSS another possibility would be an 10mm equal T with a length of 10mm pipe to a 10mm nozzle onto 3/8" ID hose with a 1/4" nozzle with a short length of 1/4" pipe the other end.

 

Ideas?

[ditchcrawler]

I have a 10mm metric gas pipe. I recently acquired a Stratford oven with a 1/4" armoured hose and a nursery tap. What's the easiest - read safest - way to patch this into the 10mm line.

 

I've had a trawl through the Wade catalogue and my first thought is; a 10mm equal T with a 10-6mm reducing set, a small piece of 6mm pipe followed by a 6mm to 1/4" coupling followed by a small piece of 1/4" pipe to the nursery tap.

 

The other problem I'm finding is sourcing a 1/4" armoured hose as the one on there is of uncertain age and I'd like to replace it for piece of mind.

.

There are no BSS issues so perhaps we can short circuit that part of the conversation.

 

Being no BSS another possibility would be an 10mm equal T with a length of 10mm pipe to a 10mm nozzle onto 3/8" ID hose with a 1/4" nozzle with a short length of 1/4" pipe the other end.

 

Ideas?

Any help. http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/10mm_Compression_x_1_4__Bsp_Female_.html

[smileypete]

How does the armoured hose connect to the cooker, compression fitting, tapered BSP?

 

cheers, Pete

~smpt~

[Bee]

Try a local branch of Pirtek (Pirtech?) hydraulic fittings etc.

[Chris Pink]

How does the armoured hose connect to the cooker, compression fitting, tapered BSP?

 

cheers, Pete

~smpt~

 

the cooker male goes to a 3/8" female stud coupling onto a 1/4" compression fitting for the hose.

 

Can you get 10mm cooker hose?

 

then I could go 10mm equal tee, short length of 10mm pipe, equal ended coupling to 10mm hose to 3/8" BSP (guess)

 

I could use a plug cock instead of an equal coupling but Wade don't do these in metric.

 

How would I know what type of male thread I have on the cooker?

 

Any help. http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/10mm_Compression_x_1_4__Bsp_Female_.html

 

I think you may have it there, that would fit my nursery tap. Then I'm standard 10mm up to that point.

 

That's a good shout, Hamilton's - they do seem a bit more marine orientated than BES

Edited March 20, 2013 by Chris Pink

[RobinJ]

There are no BSS issues so perhaps we can short circuit that part of the conversation.

Except that a flexible coupling has to meet the standard!

 

As far as I know there are all three sizes of flexible pipe available, (1/4", 3/8" and 1/2"? I think), problem will be finding somewhere that keeps them!

Trick is to avois as many joints as possible, so two compression fittings, one at each end (even if reducing) should do.

[Chris Pink]

Except that a flexible coupling has to meet the standard!

 

Trick is to avois as many joints as possible, so two compression fittings, one at each end (even if reducing) should do.

 

Can't fault your summary. The BSS doesn't apply to this installation but obviously safe practice does.

[alan_fincher]

If you just want the braided hose pre-made with 1/4" tails at each end, BES do them Here

 

Only problem with BES is that if you only want to source one item at less than the £40+VAT they require before free delivery kicks in, you can end up paying as much in postage as for the item.

 

If you need other bits as well though BES could be an option.

 

Chandleries have the same hoses, at more money, although with low turnovers the date tags on them can often be quite old. If no BSS involved though, that's probably a non-issue, as I don't think they are supposed to start deteriorating until actually exposed to the gas.

[Chris Pink]

 

Only problem with BES is that if you only want to source one item at less than the £40+VAT they require before free delivery kicks in, you can end up paying as much in postage as for the item.

 

 

Indeed, the trick with this job is finding one supplier that does everything so there's only one postage hit.

 

 

I might have another go at BES later, I find their online catalogue very difficult to negotiate.

 

Though BES are a bit fiddly to change from metric to imperial, Hamilton's seem to have everything.

 

I am struggling to source 1/4" copper olives at the moment so it might be back to BES

 

'chandlery" - what's that, I'm sure I heard the word somewhere?

[alan_fincher]

'chandlery" - what's that, I'm sure I heard the word somewhere?

Agree, but sometimes better to spend £7 at somewhere you are driving past anyway and get it straight away, than to spend a fiver online, with another fiver for delivery, and then not be "at home" for delivery when it does turn up.

 

Yes, BES online catalogue is fairly crap - I'm surprised they get such a market share, but they carry an awful lot of stuff, and actually have it, rather than other people who let you order, before they then introduce a delay while they try and get some of the bits from their wholesaler, (a pet hate of mine).

 

I do find for this kind of job it is remarkably hard to find all bits at reasonable cost from one supplier, and hence hopefully get free postage, and only have to look out for one delivery.

 

Good luck!

[Timleech]

Except that a flexible coupling has to meet the standard!

 

As far as I know there are all three sizes of flexible pipe available, (1/4", 3/8" and 1/2"? I think), problem will be finding somewhere that keeps them!

Trick is to avois as many joints as possible, so two compression fittings, one at each end (even if reducing) should do.

 

5/16" flex hoses are available, and 5/16" is close enough to 8mm to be pretty much interchangeable, so that might be a handy metric/imperial conversion route.

 

If the cooker has a male thread, measure it's outside diameter and look it up, it'll almost certainly be a BSP thread.

Then get a female stud to fit going to 5/16" copper, and a 10/8/10mm tee.

 

Edit to add link

 

Tim.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Timleech

[Chris Pink]

5/16" flex hoses are available, and 5/16" is close enough to 8mm to be pretty much interchangeable, so that might be a handy metric/imperial conversion route.

 

If the cooker has a male thread, measure it's outside diameter and look it up, it'll almost certainly be a BSP thread.

Then get a female stud to fit going to 5/16" copper, and a 10/8/10mm tee.

 

Edit to add link

 

Tim.

 

What a useful document.

 

7.9375mm - yes, could do it. It would certainly cut out a lot of fittings

[smileypete]

BES do a 10mm x 8mm LPG suitable valve, part #9622 that may be helpful, some pipe clips might come in handy too.

 

Depends how reusable the armoured hose and valve are, not sure what the deal is with LPG cooker hoses, whether they need to be replaced at intervals, the LPG suitable rubber ones have a red stripe.

 

BES website is a bit of a pain to search, I sometimes do it via Google using something like 'site:bes.co.uk lpg cooker hose'

 

Yes, BES online catalogue is fairly crap - I'm surprised they get such a market share, but they carry an awful lot of stuff, and actually have it, rather than other people who let you order, before they then introduce a delay while they try and get some of the bits from their wholesaler, (a pet hate of mine).

They do occasionally have things out of stock, but I find it easy to call and check before placing a web order, or just order over the phone.

 

cheers, Pete

~smpt~

Edited March 20, 2013 by smileypete

[MtB]

What a useful document.

 

7.9375mm - yes, could do it. It would certainly cut out a lot of fittings

 

I can confirm 8mm compression fittings satisfactorily fit and seal onto 5/16" imperial copper tube, and 8mm copper tube will fit very snugly into a 5/16" imperial compression fitting.

 

MtB

[Chris Pink]

I think I'm getting there, with the help of all you people.

 

6736 10 mm COMP TEE, UK

 

A piece of 10mm pipe

 

9622 10 mm x 8 mm COMP, BALL VALVE, LEVER, PL...

 

12697 24" x 8.3 mm GALV, O/B PROP ASSEM, 5/16"...

 

6644 8 mm COMP x 1/4" BSP PF, ADAPTOR, UK to the cooker

 

8950 10 mm OLIVE, COPPER 4 off

 

139458 mm OLIVE, COPPER 2off

 

(I assume the BES stuff comes with brass olives?)

 

 

It seems a shame I can't find an 8mm hose anywhere

 

oh and a new tin of hawk white, mine was a bit crusty last i looked. Any opinions on teflon thread sealing fluid like this 18509 Rocol Twineflon, ?

[MtB]

Nothing wrong with brass olives as far as I can tell, from reading the regs....

 

 

MtB

[Chris Pink]

Nothing wrong with brass olives as far as I can tell, from reading the regs....

 

 

MtB

 

is there any advantage to using copper?

[Timleech]

Nothing wrong with brass olives as far as I can tell, from reading the regs....

 

 

MtB

 

 

We were taught, 20-odd years ago when I did a Calor course, that olives in LPG installations *must* be copper. Whether or not that appears in regulations I have no idea, I gave up gas when CORGI started to get their sticky mitts into boats.

 

Tim

[MtB]

We were taught, 20-odd years ago when I did a Calor course, that olives in LPG installations *must* be copper. Whether or not that appears in regulations I have no idea, I gave up gas when CORGI started to get their sticky mitts into boats.

 

Tim

 

I seem to remember 'the regs' now say olives must be "copper or copper alloy", Brass is a copper alloy, innit!

 

But now I can't find the citation, so this may turn out to be wrong.

 

But it's academic here as Chris's installation is outside of the scope of the BSS, so presumably outside other boaty regs too.

 

 

MtB

[bizzard]

Possibly because brass olives have a sharpish edge that might bite into cooper tube whereas the tubular copper olives are not only softer and have roundier edges.

[MtB]

*can ANYBODY here cite a regulation specifying olive material?

[Chris Pink]

 

 

But it's academic here as Chris's installation is outside of the scope of the BSS,

 

 

 

But not out of the scope of best practice. I remember a calor publication years ago stated only copper olives for LPG, though their website now appears to be anodyne crap now.

 

I am surprised I din't download it but I can't find it.

 

THere's nothing in the BSS but you would know more than me about the EN and BS regulations.

[Timleech]

But not out of the scope of best practice. I remember a calor publication years ago stated only copper olives for LPG, though their website now appears to be anodyne crap now.

 

I am surprised I din't download it but I can't find it.

 

THere's nothing in the BSS but you would know more than me about the EN and BS regulations.

 

My guess is that copper, being softer, is more likely to make a gas-tight seal than is brass.

 

Tim

[smileypete]

oh and a new tin of hawk white, mine was a bit crusty last i looked. Any opinions on teflon thread sealing fluid like this 18509 Rocol Twineflon, ?

For taper threads a single layer of gas grade PTFE tape should do, and of course no PTFE tape or goo should be needed or used on compression fittings.

 

I think that Calor recommend using soft copper olives in compression fittings, on the whole it seems to be considered as best practice, also it's easier to tell when the olive is biting down on the pipe.

 

cheers, Pete

~smpt~

[smileypete]

But not out of the scope of best practice. I remember a calor publication years ago stated only copper olives for LPG, though their website now appears to be anodyne crap now.

 

I am surprised I din't download it but I can't find it.

Maybe this is what you had in mind luckily it can still be accessed via 'wayback':

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061006042510/http://www.calormarineshop.co.uk/installation/marine_gas_installation.htm

 

I do like the way they clarify each point to give it's rationale, BSS and other standards bodies take note!!!

 

BTW on Firefox the addon 'Mozilla Archive Format' is quite good for archiving pages.

 

cheers, Pete

~smpt~