primary schools

[magnetman]

Well

 

I have noticed that I have a child who is approaching 3 years old, and another who is getting on for 1 (!)

 

i'm a 'continuous cruiser' at the moment in the metropolis.

 

swmbo is applying for schools in East London.

 

I know I know i've got the tin hat on and fire extinguishers for any flamers but does anyone have any valid suggestions on how to get into a state school/nursery without a fixed address ?

 

 

just in case anyone is going to have a go I have been living on the cut for 18 years now and yes I do know what as ccer is

[Homer 123]

I'm new to all this but could you use a friends address in the area of the chosen school?

[Dave_P]

Have you spoken to any of the schools? Education is a right in this country so they can't exactly refuse you. We had quite a few gypsy/traveller kids in my primary school. It was a fair while ago now though.

 

Have you spoken to any of the schools? Education is a right in this country so they can't exactly refuse you. We had quite a few gypsy/traveller kids in my primary school. It was a fair while ago now though.

[Halesowenmum]

Well

 

I have noticed that I have a child who is approaching 3 years old, and another who is getting on for 1 (!)

 

i'm a 'continuous cruiser' at the moment in the metropolis.

 

swmbo is applying for schools in East London.

 

I know I know i've got the tin hat on and fire extinguishers for any flamers but does anyone have any valid suggestions on how to get into a state school/nursery without a fixed address ?

 

 

just in case anyone is going to have a go I have been living on the cut for 18 years now and yes I do know what as ccer is

 

Yes, contact local authority's and find out how they accommodate children who don't live at the same address all the time. I'm not sure how this would work if you had to keep moving schools though (I mean how that would be on the kids).

 

And there is also the option of home schooling. There are lots of groups around nowadays (see what there is on the net) and this might be easier for you to follow a more drop-in type of education and you don't have to have attended school to be able to take exams.

 

I guess it also depends on if you want when both kids are at school, to go back to work part or full time.

 

Be very interested to hear what you find out!

[Arthur Brown]

Ask the council in the area that you wish to be in, see what they say. You will NOT be the first person with this enquiry.

 

Remember that school done well develops a child as a person as well as syllabus topics, it's up to you to support and complement this learning.

 

Private tutoring is possible but expensive, home education puts huge demands on you and SWMBO and you will find education inspectors doubting your every move. Boarding school is the expensive option.

 

Personally I wonder about the CC bit -travelling a significant part of the system- when tied to a school building.

[Leonie]

Have you joined the London Boaters mailing list? I know there are at least two or three families on that list who have managed to enrol their little ones in childcare/school in the East London area. Put a request out on there and see what comes back. I feel sure there will be people who can advise you. Good luck. Another London Boater was born yesterday and my very own is due in early April.

[magnetman]

thanks Leonie I will do that

 

Ask the council in the area that you wish to be in, see what they say. You will NOT be the first person with this enquiry.

 

Remember that school done well develops a child as a person as well as syllabus topics, it's up to you to support and complement this learning.

 

Private tutoring is possible but expensive, home education puts huge demands on you and SWMBO and you will find education inspectors doubting your every move. Boarding school is the expensive option.

 

Personally I wonder about the CC bit -travelling a significant part of the system- when tied to a school building.

 

we will not be doing home ed... and yes I know about the cc thing

Edited February 26, 2013 by magnetman

[carlt]

Schools are required to accommodate "travellers" so you could approach your school on that basis.

 

I had no problems enrolling my eldest son in nursery after his health visitor recommended one to us.

 

We were living in an ex-army Bedford RL truck at the time (Lucy had sunk and I was still fitting out Usk).

 

I would recommend getting your kid in a nursery that is attached to a primary school as it smooths the transition and your "lifestyle" doesn't need to be scrutinised, yet again.

[magnetman]

 

...........tied to a school building.

 

a school with mooring rings now that's a nice idea

[carlt]

 

Personally I wonder about the CC bit -travelling a significant part of the system- when tied to a school building.

 

No need to take it "personally".

 

I file such matters under "None of my business".

[magnetman]

Schools are required to accommodate "travellers" so you could approach your school on that basis.

 

I had no problems enrolling my eldest son in nursery after his health visitor recommended one to us.

 

We were living in an ex-army Bedford RL truck at the time (Lucy had sunk and I was still fitting out Usk).

 

I would recommend getting your kid in a nursery that is attached to a primary school as it smooths the transition and your "lifestyle" doesn't need to be scrutinised, yet again.

 

thanks Carl yes we are aiming to get her into a nursery feeding a primary school in the same establishment as you say that would be ideal.

[koukouvagia]

All schools have admissions criteria. Usually the order of priority is: (1) children in care, (2) children with medical and/or social needs, (3) siblings and then (4) children living closest to the school gate. In addition church schools may also reserve some places for church-going families. For a popular school, once children in these categories have been accommodated there are very few places left. In an inner London school where I'm a governor if you live more than about 800 feet from the school gate, you won't be offered a place under category (4).

 

A couple of years ago a child who lived on a house boat near Tower Bridge was deemed to be living in a permanent home and qualified for a place at our school.

 

My advice would be to contact the local authority or the Tower Hamlets Travellers Education Service and see what they say.

 

Another possibilty is to contact any Free Schools or Academies in the area. They may have more flexible admissions policies.

 

Beware about Carl's advice re nurseries. Not every school in an overcrowded area like Tower Hamlets will accept children from its nursery unless the other criteria are fulfilled. I don't know what Tower Hamlets policy is, but some local authorities take a dim view of parents who use a nursery place simply to gain a place at an oversubscribed primary school.

[magnetman]

I wonder if they take a dim view of people who buy a studio flat 500m from school and apply for places for their children while renting it out?

 

what I am getting at is is there an actual limit to the number of primary school places applied for from a single dwelling??

 

if not then a small btl flat is the answer I suppose.

[koukouvagia]

I wonder if they take a dim view of people who buy a studio flat 500m from school and apply for places for their children while renting it out?

 

what I am getting at is is there an actual limit to the number of primary school places applied for from a single dwelling??

 

if not then a small btl flat is the answer I suppose.

 

This is a loophole long since closed.

 

If two children live in the same block of flats, some admissions policies give precedence to the lowest flat number, others tie break by casting lots.

Edited February 26, 2013 by koukouvagia

[magnetman]

what I mean is if I were to take out a rental agreement on "12a Whatever Street e3" and the landlord is using this address to get their child into the school (as I know for a fact some do) can I also get my child into the same school using the address??

 

by the way this is a very important point and I can see you know your stuff and I am very grateful for your input

[koukouvagia]

what I mean is if I were to take out a rental agreement on "12a Whatever Street e3" and the landlord is using this address to get their child into the school (as I know for a fact some do) can I also get my child into the same school using the address??

 

by the way this is a very important point and I can see you know your stuff and I am very grateful for your input

 

Most authorities will have a statement to the effect that the address in question must be the main residence of the child. (Allowance is made for children who may spend some time each week with a divorced or separated partner). So provided your child actually lives at the rented address there will no problem. If the landlord is using the address fraudulently to get his child into a local school, this will not be allowed. Believe me it has sometimes been tried, but is usually discovered.

[matty40s]

Well

 

I have noticed that I have a child who is approaching 3 years old, and another who is getting on for 1 (!)

 

 

 

Just carry on CC-ing, look again in a few years. You will notice they are 18 and 16 and off to work (or not as the case may be)

[magnetman]

Just carry on CC-ing, look again in a few years. You will notice they are 18 and 16 and off to work (or not as the case may be)

 

 

there is hope then

[carlt]

Beware about Carl's advice re nurseries. Not every school in an overcrowded area like Tower Hamlets will accept children from its nursery unless the other criteria are fulfilled. I don't know what Tower Hamlets policy is, but some local authorities take a dim view of parents who use a nursery place simply to gain a place at an oversubscribed primary school.

Beware?

 

Pretty strong stuff especially as you obviously failed to understand the reasoning behind my advice.

 

Obviously there are no guarantees that you will get a primary school place if you don't meet the criteria (no "dim view" taken, you just don't get a place) but if you do meet the criteria then the transition is far smoother if you are in the nursery that is attached to a school and there is less crap about your lifestyle chucked about.

 

I gave up my lifestyle and bought a house in the school's catchment area in order to keep my son at his school so I know all about the "criteria", btw.

 

My advice still stands and there is no need to "beware" at all.

[koukouvagia]

Beware?

 

 

What happens is this.

 

A family decides it wants to send its child to such and such a primary school and decides to put him or her into the nursery school attached to said primary school. There are no nursery admissions criteria (because these are not required by the local authority for nursery schools) and the school makes no specific commitment to take nursery children into the primary school. However, the parents reckon that since they live within the primary school catchment area and are more or less on the doorstep, there'll be no problem.

The family is taking a gamble because (assuming they don't fall into the first three categories) at this stage there is no means of telling whether they will meet the distance criterion in two years' time. At my school several huge blocks of flats have just been built directly adjacent to the school so that children who live in these now have priority over the families that previously thought they would be OK. The angst and sense of injustice from nursery parents who now find they no longer live close enough to the school is very real.

 

To overcome this some inner London primary schools have added an extra priority category – children who attend the nursery, provided they live in the catchment area. This category trumps the distance criterion but discriminates in favour of families who have lived in the area for several years. Newcomers moving into the area, who have not been able to send their child to the nursery now stand far less chance of a place. (Hence the "dim view" taken by local authorities – it's not fair to be deprived of the chance of a place just because you've just been re-housed, say). In central London the influx of such families is constant.

 

Carl may have been fortunate to be able to move into the school catchment area, thus securing a place. Unfortunately, in London you can still live within the catchment area but not have a hope of being offered a place. For example, this year at my school there are 250 applicants for 60 places By the time places have been offered to the various priority categories, there are just 10 places left to be offered on the criterion of distance. How do parents know whether they live near enough? Hence the gamble – hence the need to beware.

 

By the way, no school I have known cares two hoots about the social background or lifestyle of the child when offering a place. Indeed it would be illegal to do so and almost certainly overthrown on appeal.

 

The admissions process is extremely complex in London. Parents can easily get caught out if they make the wrong choice. Many attempts have been made to make the process less fraught, but no one has come up with a perfect plan.

 

 

 

[carlt]

Carl may have been fortunate to be able to move into the school catchment area, thus securing a place....

You responded to my post...Perhaps you could do me the courtesy of responding to me directly.

 

None of your wall of text detracts from what I said.

 

If you send your child to a nursery that is not attached to a primary school then there is zero chance of the smooth transition I alluded to.

 

If you send your child to a nursery that is attached to a primary school, and can meet the admissions criteria, then there is a strong chance of continuity, something that is quite important if you have an unconventional lifestyle.

 

By the way, no school I have known cares two hoots about the social background or lifestyle of the child when offering a place. Indeed it would be illegal to do so and almost certainly overthrown on appeal.

 

Yeah right!

 

From personal experience I can point to several that, whilst they didn't say our lifestyle would affect the chances of admission, they made it quite clear we weren't welcome.

[koukouvagia]

 

If you send your child to a nursery that is not attached to a primary school then there is zero chance of the smooth transition I alluded to.

 

If you send your child to a nursery that is attached to a primary school, and can meet the admissions criteria, then there is a strong chance of continuity, something that is quite important if you have an unconventional lifestyle.

 

Of course, to belong to a nursery which is attached to a primary school will aid a smooth transition. All schools will much prefer to offer places to children they know. But as I have tried to show this transition, particularly in London, is by no means guaranteed.

For reasons I pointed out parents cannot be certain of a place even though they meet all the admissions criteria. It is very difficult having to deny a nursery school child a place and the smooth transition that goes with it because he or she lives five feet too far away.

 

 

From personal experience I can point to several that, whilst they didn't say our lifestyle would affect the chances of admission, they made it quite clear we weren't welcome.

 

 

I'm sure you made your dissatisfaction known to the Governors. What was their response?

[carlt]

I'm sure you made your dissatisfaction known to the Governors.

To what end?

 

I did not want to send my 4 year old son to a school that was so obviously prejudiced (one headteacher, in a well known canalside village school, told me openly that there was a strong chance he would be bullied) so I moved on until I found the school he will now leave in September, aged 11.

 

I had no intention of "making a stand" when the priority was to get my child in a school.

 

 

For reasons I pointed out parents cannot be certain of a place even though they meet all the admissions criteria. It is very difficult having to deny a nursery school child a place and the smooth transition that goes with it because he or she lives five feet too far away.

 

I still fail to see the relevance in what you are saying.

 

No attached primary school, no chance of avoiding the search for one at the end of nursery.

 

Attached primary school, some chance of moving smoothly from one to another, ranging from slim to strong, depending on what admissions criteria you meet.

 

Some hope is better than no hope so I don't understand your negativity.

[koukouvagia]

 

Some hope is better than no hope so I don't understand your negativity.

I didn't intend to be negative. I was simply trying to point out to the OP that the odds are stacked against his children in London, nursery attendees or not, unless he lives very close to the school and that anyone trying to beat the system by having a spurious address was not likely to succeed.

 

 

I had no intention of "making a stand" when the priority was to get my child in a school.

 

 

I'd always complain to a school and I'd certainly say why I was moving my child, though I'd probably wait till he or she was happily ensconced elsewhere before making the complaint official. I've seen weak or bullying headteachers get away with unacceptable behaviour for years simply because parents were afraid of repercussions. Parents now have the ability to whistle-blow and Ofsted pays great store by parental satisfaction.

[carlt]

I've seen weak or bullying headteachers get away with unacceptable behaviour for years simply because parents were afraid of repercussions. Parents now have the ability to whistle-blow and Ofsted pays great store by parental satisfaction.

If you have read my posts here I doubt you would have me down as one "afraid of repercussions" and I have certainly never been afraid to "whistle-blow" but I really couldn't be bothered with changing the narrow-minded bigoted attitudes of schools that I had no intention of sending my child to whilst going through the process of finding out the nature of his disability and all the crap that entailed.

 

I had no will to fight somebody else's fight at that time and I feel no guilt for walking away.