Wide Boats on the GU

[oboat]

I have been trying to do some research into wideboats on the GU/Regents/River

and stumbled on the “Progress” thread. Which I found fascinating, I had wondered what had happened to her? The Net seems to have a myriad of NB info, club, or just G Interest sites but nothing for WB.

Can anybody point me the way to WB/Barge traffics on the London area canals please.

The groups I am most interested in were termed “Ben Boats” & had names like Ben Nevis & the like. My last recollection of them was as work boats in relation to the Fiber Optic contract when the Regents was narrowed down in the 1970’s.

I think some were even old sailing barges. My Ben Boat searches take me to the Shipping Line. Not the canal boats I am looking for. The other group are the Rubbish boats, lots of Pic’s about, but little info?

[Laurence Hogg]

H Sabey were the operator of a fleet of wooden wide beam rubbish boats in West London but this was a traffic which ceased in the eraly 1950's. I know of no "Ben" named craft operating there.

[antarmike]

The Ben boat we worked on horse drawn day tripping was Ben Klibrech. She had been Vokins before her trip boat days. (It seems in Sutherland Ben Klibrech and Ben Kilbreck are both accepted spellings of the mount)

 

My copyright all photgraphs

Edited December 17, 2012 by antarmike

[alan_fincher]

H Sabey were the operator of a fleet of wooden wide beam rubbish boats in West London but this was a traffic which ceased in the eraly 1950's. I know of no "Ben" named craft operating there.

I only have partial recollections of the tractor towed barges still at work on the lower reaches of the Southern GU in the early 1970s. I'm fairly confident that some of those still at work were "Ben" ones though.

 

This post by Pete Harrison confirms that by 1973, as well as "Ben Klibrech", by now a trip boat, ex-Vokins "Ben Hope" had also ended up at Berkhamsted - I had completely managed to erase all memory of the latter!

 

Presumably both Ben Klibrech and Ben Hope were not long out of carrying service when they were acquired for these other purposes?

[pete harrison]

I have been trying to do some research into wideboats on the GU/Regents/River

and stumbled on the “Progress” thread. Which I found fascinating, I had wondered what had happened to her? The Net seems to have a myriad of NB info, club, or just G Interest sites but nothing for WB.

Can anybody point me the way to WB/Barge traffics on the London area canals please.

The groups I am most interested in were termed “Ben Boats” & had names like Ben Nevis & the like. My last recollection of them was as work boats in relation to the Fiber Optic contract when the Regents was narrowed down in the 1970’s.

I think some were even old sailing barges. My Ben Boat searches take me to the Shipping Line. Not the canal boats I am looking for. The other group are the Rubbish boats, lots of Pic’s about, but little info?

The Grand Union Canal Company gauge registers list the following boats owned by Vokins & Co. Ltd. - BEN CRUCHEN, BEN BECHLA, BENLEDI (BEN LEDI ?), BEN LUI, BEN KILBRECH (sic), BEN MORE, BEN LAWERS, BEN HOPE and BEN LOMOND - all between 72'6½'' and 78'5 length and between 14'0½'' and 14'4½'' beam.

 

The "rubbish boats" were predomenently operated by St. Marylebone Borough Council, St. Marylebone NW1. I have 32 Grand Junction / Grand Union Canal Company gaugings and 34 health registrations relating to these boats, all between 1918 and 1935 and all were wide beam with the exception of some of their tugs. This traffic, along with most of the boats was taken over by Thomas Clayton (Paddington) Ltd. on 01 August 1939, a company which had been sold to the Grand Union Canal Company on 01 April 1936. What was left of this fleet passed to British Transport Commission (Docks & Inland Waterways Executive) on 01 January 1948 when the Grand Union Canal Company and their subsidiarys were nationalised. A few of these boats survived on this traffic into the early 1960's although most were replaced by redundant narrow boats from the southern carrying fleet of 'British Waterways'.

Edited December 17, 2012 by pete harrison

[antarmike]

Just been looking here

Amongst other good stuff is photo of Ben Becula * loaded with round timber, and the subsequent shot could well be another Ben Boat? taken winter 62-63

 

Centre right Another Ben Boat?Admittedly has a raised cabin structure at the stern so not built to same design as Ben Klibrech. but just may have on transom (LH side) "Ben" and a name?? I refer here to the barge with the large round timber load

 

* Reads to my eyes Ben Becula not Ben Bechla and Ben Bechla does not google as a Scottish Mountain....But Benbecula is an Island?

Edited December 17, 2012 by antarmike

[Tam & Di]

The Grand Union Canal Company gauge registers list the following boats owned by Vokins & Co. Ltd. - BEN CRUCHEN, BEN BECHLA, BENLEDI (BEN LEDI ?), BEN LUI, BEN KILBRECH (sic), BEN MORE, BEN LAWERS, BEN HOPE and BEN LOMOND - all between 72'6½'' and 78'5 length and between 14'0½'' and 14'4½'' beam.

 

We owned Ben Cruachan and Ben McDhuie - the latter we bought from Beauchamp Lodge Settlement in 1986 and Ben Cruachan at about the same time from the Museum of London. (I don't know why my records show it as Cruachen rather than Cruchen). We had them on hire for several years to SEGB, sunk on the Paddington Arm at Park Royal to prevent the towpath which carried their fibre optic cables from collapsing. They were Woodbine and Woodcraft in our fleet. We also had Cam, bought from John Darling Services in the same period and operated as our Woodavon.

[josiejo]

pete wakeham has ben lawyers at denham deep as a floating dry dock

[Derek R.]

Just been looking here

Amongst other good stuff is photo of Ben Becula * loaded with round timber, and the subsequent shot could well be another Ben Boat? taken winter 62-63

 

Centre right Another Ben Boat?Admittedly has a raised cabin structure at the stern so not built to same design as Ben Klibrech. but just may have on transom (LH side) "Ben" and a name?? I refer here to the barge with the large round timber load

 

* Reads to my eyes Ben Becula not Ben Bechla and Ben Bechla does not google as a Scottish Mountain....But Benbecula is an Island?

 

What a fascinating source. Looks like BEN CRUACHAN to me, certainly starts with a 'C', & BLACKWALL 253 OR 2.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Derek R.

[bargemast]

Just been looking here

Amongst other good stuff is photo of Ben Becula * loaded with round timber, and the subsequent shot could well be another Ben Boat? taken winter 62-63

 

Centre right Another Ben Boat?Admittedly has a raised cabin structure at the stern so not built to same design as Ben Klibrech. but just may have on transom (LH side) "Ben" and a name?? I refer here to the barge with the large round timber load

 

* Reads to my eyes Ben Becula not Ben Bechla and Ben Bechla does not google as a Scottish Mountain....But Benbecula is an Island?

 

 

Thanks for posting so much, and very interesting information.

 

Peter.

[alan_fincher]

As well as the "Ben"s, were there lot also barges on the same stretch that were "Loch"s? (I seem to recall some.)

 

If so, were they also operated by Vokins?

[pete harrison]

The Grand Union Canal Company gauge registers list the following boats owned by Vokins & Co. Ltd. - BEN CRUCHEN, BEN BECHLA, BENLEDI (BEN LEDI ?), BEN LUI, BEN KILBRECH (sic), BEN MORE, BEN LAWERS, BEN HOPE and BEN LOMOND - all between 72'6½'' and 78'5 length and between 14'0½'' and 14'4½'' beam.

I do not have enough knowledge of these boats to know the correct spelling for each boats name. My references are taken from my transcript of the Grand Union Canal Company gauge registers, which may have been entered in error or transcribed incorrectly by me.

 

As well as the "Ben"s, were there lot also barges on the same stretch that were "Loch"s? (I seem to recall some.)

 

If so, were they also operated by Vokins?

I have no record of the "Loch"s" or who they were operated by.

[oboat]

I do not have enough knowledge of these boats to know the correct spelling for each boats name. My references are taken from my transcript of the Grand Union Canal Company gauge registers, which may have been entered in error or transcribed incorrectly by me.

 

 

I have no record of the "Loch"s" or who they were operated by.

Thank you all very much for your input.

I find this a fascinating subject particularly when one relates the published waterway dimensions to the recorded size of craft that seem to have passed through them on a regular basis.

If I am not mistaken, wide boats on the canals to the north of London seem to have been virtually omitted from any comprehensive published study.

This is even more surprising when one considers that many such craft were still in service long after narrow boats did any meaningful trade.

I know specialist boats did or do get mentioned but only as oddities & not as part of an operational system or trade that must have required some form of movement control.

I can see a story just in the Ben Boats alone. Many London enthusiasts know of them but I suspect like me, few know much about them.

How many were in service?

Who built them, &/or who had them built & when? The Vokins web site seems to only have Tug stuff on it.

For what trade?

Could they operate north out of Brentford (78"-5") or just from the Regents Dock? Just how many miles north did they go?

How often did they get stuck or miss directed?

Were they part of a London Docks Type?

Where are they now.

It may be that a half forgotten manuscript is lying on a self just waiting to be published but I fear not.

 

Love to know more! or be wrong.

Edited December 21, 2012 by oboat

[Derek R.]

Esparto Grass was carried in wide boats and horse drawn from Brentford to John Dickinson's paper mills at Croxley Green on a regular basis, and in a different direction; timber from Regent's Canal Dock up the Lee navigation to Bambergers near the N. Circular Road. Just two of I'm sure many. Lots of short haul from Marylebone to the tip on the Slough Arm, as well as coal from Marylebone to Kensal Green Gas Works behind a tug.

 

Mark Pullinger has researched quite a lot of London traffic, he's MarkyP on this forum, but also was instrumental in setting up LondonCanal-Scape, a Yahoo group forum, though there's not a lot of input save from those watching the 'developers' at waters edge. But if you do log on there, go to the 'files' section, and open up the pdf entitled 'The boats of Harefield Flash (V. low res.) Final pdf'. 25 pages and well worth a read.

 

Couple of archive film clips:

Barge Fellows 5m 38s 1926

English Canals 18m 25s 1941

Both show wide and narrow boats, the first jumps to the Manchester Ship canal half way through.

 

Search around and more will be found.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Derek R.

[antarmike]

Though purely a guess, the clicky I posted earlier showed Ben boats loaded with Timber for James Davies Timber and shows the location Hayes Bridge Wharf for them, Davies also had wharfs at Otter Dock (Cowley/Uxbridge) and Yeading Dock and it would seem strange if these also were not serviced by wide boats.

[BEngo]

The Ben boat we worked on horse drawn day tripping was Ben Klibrech. She had been Vokins before her trip boat days. (It seems in Sutherland Ben Klibrech and Ben Kilbreck are both accepted spellings of the mount)

 

My copyright all photgraphs

 

 

But what was the name of the horse? Equally importantly; who owned it and manged its contemporaries, where was it stabled, how was its feed provided and who looked after shoeing, vetting etc?

 

N

[Derek R.]

It's wearing its name! - 'Patience'.

[antarmike]

This horse is "Patience" She was owned by Mike Baldey, who ran the trip boat and she was my favourite to work with. He also had "Providence" and "Prudence" His partner Eve Bristowe owned a heavy Hunter called "Selby" who would pull the boat on occasions . Selby was a bit light to work the boat, was grumpy, and idle. All the Horses where kept in a field beside the G.U, accessed from a roadway, track that started at New Road Northchurch, and ran past Northchurch lock and forked away from the towpath. (the field now lost under housing around the new streets of Emerton Garth and Emerton Close, Brakynbury etc) This made life hard when we horse boated between Cowroast and Berko, since we had to take one horse along the towpath, with the other horses the side of the hedge from the towpath. On one memorable occasion going south along the "Long Pound" approaching Northchurch lock, I was walking with but behind the horse when she decided she was going back to her field rather than finish the trip, and ran off down the bank to the field gate, taking me with her with my arms caught under the horse line, dragging me backwards through the hedge and nettles and the boat into the piling. The line pulled tight and broke with me still caught under my arms.....all good fun.

 

Mike Baldey rented a stable in Station Road Berkhamsted (which I think is now known as The Coach House and looks totally different to the way I recall it, but that is progress) , accessible up a little path from the tow-path just behind "The Crystal Palace". He would harness the horses here, and often if a boozy trip finished late at night, the Horse would remain here until we took it back to Northchurch the next day. Shoeing was normally done here.

 

I believe "Prudence" was sold to day trip on The Kennet and Avon. I know it was one of the Bay horses (Might just have been "Providence") we took down down there. We worked the horse on its first K and A trip, but I never went back to re-visit.

 

On longer trips we provided a nose bag for feed. A great source of friction between the horsebarge and Sam Horne at Berko locks was the fact that Patience was partial to his famous roses and would graze the flowers whenever she got the chance.

Nose bag (right) lies on fore end of a wey barge

Patience With Ginny Harris

Patience

Patience Mike Baldey and Eve Bristowe mind their Baby, Ann Rayner and Pete Fincher

Selby

Selby Mike Baldey & Ginny Harris

Providence Eve Bristowe John Dakin (and Nicholas Hill of course)

Providence

Selby foreground Patience behind. In their Northchurch field

Providence, same location.

Providence being a proud mum...

Copyright Mike Fincher all photographs. (Can't get used to this Forums clock being an hour out and it calling Today Tomorrow when it is still 50 minutes to go till midnight!)

Edited December 22, 2012 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Off topic I know but more of the horses mentioned..

All images copyright Mike Fincher

Edited December 22, 2012 by antarmike

[bargemast]

Thanks for posting these beautiful nostalgic photos, those were the days when life wasn't such a rush yet.

 

Peter.

[Jerra]

(I don't know why my records show it as Cruachen rather than Cruchen).

 

Probably because that is how they spell the name of the mountain in Argyll that it is almost certainly named after.

[antarmike]

Probably because that is how they spell the name of the mountain in Argyll that it is almost certainly named after.

 

The boat was around in my time and I remember it as as Ben Cruachen.

Edited December 22, 2012 by antarmike

[MarkyP]

Yes, very little collated info regards the boats and trades around London's Waterways. I've spent a fair bit of time scratching around gathering various pieces of info, and know there's some on CWDF who also have done their own research. Here's a few photos, drifting off your original specific topic question's, but which might be of interest:

 

Here's BEN MACDHUI at Paddington during A40 extension works in 1967. By 1970, this boat was being used as a base for kid's summer activities by Beaucamp Lodge (moored about where the trendy coffee shops are now located at Paddington basin arm entrance).

 

Here's a photo of VICTOR in 1969, also on A40 extension works, at Harrow Road bridge.

 

Courtesy of the Mary Evans picture library (www.maryevans.com), here's a photo of VICTOR with TOPAZ around 25 years earlier at Brentford:

 

Is there another fleet of craft, which were given "colours" as names, or maybe there's a link with boat names beginning with "V"? Here's a photo of VIOLET at Ware:

 

Also courtesy of the Mary Evans picture library (www.maryevans.com), here's an interesting photo, taken on the Thames in London, of BILL & CORAL, which seem to be GU or R.Wey style Wideboats. Anyone got any information on these craft?:

 

Hope of interest.

 

Mark

Edited December 30, 2012 by MarkyP

[riverwey]

The Ben boat we worked on horse drawn day tripping was Ben Klibrech. She had been Vokins before her trip boat days. (It seems in Sutherland Ben Klibrech and Ben Kilbreck are both accepted spellings of the mount)

 

My copyright all photgraphs

 

 

Do you have any information on the Stevens Wey Barges that you could share with us.

 

email riverwey@nationaltrust.org.uk

[EmmaBoot]

Wow! Lovely photos of Patience the lovely white horse living on Berkhamsted in the early 70s. One of my earliest memories - probably aged about 4 (so 1972) was going on a canal boat pulled by Patience. I grew up very close to Station Rd so I always think of Patience housed in a stable more or less opposite the entrance to the timber merchants. We would often walk past and hay hello. I was telling my children about this on the eve of our first narrow boat holiday...so very moved to see the photos.