cl@rkey Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hi folks, I hope I'm not breaching any copyrights by posting this. I've got my eye on a 16 y/o narrowboat and the brokerage have emailed me a survey summary from last year (a full version of which I can see at their office): "******* is an attractive & well built craft... She was generally seen well presented & in a good condition, where the hull was found to be sound on the day of survey. She will however require a good program of continued maintenance to protect her hull and structure from the affects of corrosion. Overall no major issues could be noted with the craft, beyond reasonable minor wear and tear due to use. This can easily be addressed during standard annual maintenance." So my question is: would this scare you off, or is it still worth a visit? Does the wording suggest there's substantial pitting/corrosion? And yes, I will still be having my own survey done. Thanks for any advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcoaster Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) She was generally seen well presented & in a good condition, where the hull was found to be sound on the day of survey. She will however require a good program of continued maintenance to protect her hull and structure from the affects of corrosion. I have only had my boat for a year, and as such, have only had one survey done and very limited experience of these things, so I may be well off the mark here. But the quoted sentence would lead me to think (without seeing evidence of the actual figures for original thickness and current thickness) that one of three things is the case: 1: (Snog) The craft was at time of survey, just about within insurable thickness norms, (being, usually 4mm for the underwater parts of the hull) hence 'sound' but on the borderline of crossing the divide, hence 'will however require a good program of continued maintenance to protect her hull and structure from the affects of corrosion' ie, it currently has the borderline hull thickness figure required for fully comp insurance, but you may need to have some work done sooner or later to keep it that way. 2: (Marry) The hull was rock steady and fine, but the surveyor was covering their own ass or adding a standard clause denoting that even the most solid vessel will fall to ruin if you don't make any effort to maintain it for ages. 3. (Avoid) Alternatively, the hull was wafer thin but despite that, still currently keeping the water out, although that could change at any moment. Maybe not that handy, but I would want to know more. I'd ask for the full survey details and hull thickness figures, if available, and if you really are considering buying, getting your own impartial survey even if the figures the broker gives are good. Again, I cannot overstate how lacking my knowledge of these things are, and I am more than happy to be corrected by persons better informed. Also bear in mind that even if the hull is, as I theorised in my first interpretation of their sales speak, on the borderline of 4mm thick, that many boats float and are feasible for many more decades at or below the 4mm fully comp insurance-friendly figure. Edited December 6, 2012 by Starcoaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl@rkey Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Again, I cannot overstate how lacking my knowledge of these things are, and I am more than happy to be corrected by persons better informed. Thanks for that, Star. I know you've not been a boat owner for very long, but I do value your input. I should perhaps add that the boat is a standard 10/6/4 construction with a flat bottom. My interpretation of the summary was that, not just the hull, but the entire structure had been a little neglected. Going from the pictures, she's certainly not a shiny boat - but that's ok with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim and pat dalton Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 View the full survey it will have the thicknesses on it plus photos and chalk marks, If you need more info, get the surveyors number from it and phone him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard10002 Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 "******* is an attractive & well built craft... She was generally seen well presented & in a good condition, where the hull was found to be sound on the day of survey. She will however require a good program of continued maintenance to protect her hull and structure from the affects of corrosion. Overall no major issues could be noted with the craft, beyond reasonable minor wear and tear due to use. This can easily be addressed during standard annual maintenance." : If a survey containing the above were to cause you concern, you would never buy a boat. Having said that, the rest of the survey will probably contain quite a bit relating to the minor wear and tear. All boats require "a good program of continued maintenance" from the day they are completed...... As do houses and cars etc.. Go and see it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I would have thought this to be no more than a standard clause that the surveyor might introduce into the report for any satisfactory boat he has surveyed. She will however require a good program of continued maintenance to protect her hull and structure from the affects of corrosion. could equally well be said of an absolutely brand new, absolute top of the range, steel narrow boat with a very large 6 figure price tag. Ultimately any steel that is left floating in water needs to be looked after if it is not eventually to end up like a colander! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I would have thought this to be no more than a standard clause that the surveyor might introduce into the report for any satisfactory boat he has surveyed. could equally well be said of an absolutely brand new, absolute top of the range, steel narrow boat with a very large 6 figure price tag. Ultimately any steel that is left floating in water needs to be looked after if it is not eventually to end up like a colander! I'd avoid the surveyor, he can't spell Programme! As has been said, you need to know more of the actual thicknesses and other details, that summary tells you bu**er all. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I'd avoid the surveyor, he can't spell Programme! He also confuses "affects" with "effects". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teadaemon Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I wasn't going to mention that the surveyor (or whoever transcribed the report) seems to have issues with spelling (although I would tend to use program rather than programme, since I'm not French ), but as others have already I'll do so. Summarising the summary, at the time of the last survey, she was an attractive and well built craft, in good condition, with no major issues. That would suggest to me that she's worth a look. Where is she at the moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timleech Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I wasn't going to mention that the surveyor (or whoever transcribed the report) seems to have issues with spelling (although I would tend to use program rather than programme, since I'm not French ), but as others have already I'll do so. Program is what you use on a computer ('forced' upon us by the Americans, unfortunately, who use that spelling routinely). Programme is the English spelling. To me, 'Program' implies a different pronunciation, as well as offending my sensibilities (as an old fart from a generation wot were tort to spel proper) Tim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 To me, 'Program' implies a different pronunciation, Tim You are quite correct in your identification of the words' usage; but how on earth could one pronounce them differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl@rkey Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Thank to all who replied. It's a relief to have feedback in such broad agreement (spelling and pronunciation excepted! ) Where is she at the moment? She's currently in a private marina on the Soar. Edited December 6, 2012 by cl@rkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hi folks, I hope I'm not breaching any copyrights by posting this. I've got my eye on a 16 y/o narrowboat and the brokerage have emailed me a survey summary from last year (a full version of which I can see at their office): "******* is an attractive & well built craft... She was generally seen well presented & in a good condition, where the hull was found to be sound on the day of survey. She will however require a good program of continued maintenance to protect her hull and structure from the affects of corrosion. Overall no major issues could be noted with the craft, beyond reasonable minor wear and tear due to use. This can easily be addressed during standard annual maintenance." So my question is: would this scare you off, or is it still worth a visit? Does the wording suggest there's substantial pitting/corrosion? And yes, I will still be having my own survey done. Thanks for any advice! These and other phrases are standard cop out terms used by surveyers. This is why I have never had and never will have one. Until a surveyer can use straight John Bull English and state with straightforward word the ACTUAL condition of whatever they are looking at then the several hundred quid will be staying in my pocket. Mps use similar language anytime they are interviewed on telly. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekazer Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 It's so hard being new isn't it?! 1. If you feel nervous about owning your boat, and money's tight, maybe you should walk away and look elsewhere. 2. If you feel nervous about owning your first boat, but can afford a bit of cash expenditure up front, go and visit the boat. If you like it, get your own survey done on this boat by a surveyor you trust. Have a good chat with the surveyor, and maybe get an experienced boaty pal to go over it with you. 3. If you feel very confident, and could afford to do some repair work youself down the line, go ahead and visit, and make an offer based on the old survey. Personally, I'd go with 2) if you can afford to. Don't forget, you won't normally see old surveys like this, as they belong to the person who commissioned the survey. Normally you'd have nothing more to go on than your own observations and your own survey, so really you could just proceed as normal, and completely disregard the old survey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl@rkey Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 These and other phrases are standard cop out terms used by surveyers. This is why I have never had and never will have one. Until a surveyer can use straight John Bull English and state with straightforward word the ACTUAL condition of whatever they are looking at then the several hundred quid will be staying in my pocket. Mps use similar language anytime they are interviewed on telly. Tim Hi Tim, I love your no nonsense approach. Sadly, us newbies have little choice! It would be reckless of me not to get one, especially with this boat not being in her first flush (flush pump-out in this case) of youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cl@rkey Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 It's so hard being new isn't it?! 1. If you feel nervous about owning your boat, and money's tight, maybe you should walk away and look elsewhere. 2. If you feel nervous about owning your first boat, but can afford a bit of cash expenditure up front, go and visit the boat. If you like it, get your own survey done on this boat by a surveyor you trust. Have a good chat with the surveyor, and maybe get an experienced boaty pal to go over it with you. 3. If you feel very confident, and could afford to do some repair work youself down the line, go ahead and visit, and make an offer based on the old survey. Personally, I'd go with 2) if you can afford to. Don't forget, you won't normally see old surveys like this, as they belong to the person who commissioned the survey. Normally you'd have nothing more to go on than your own observations and your own survey, so really you could just proceed as normal, and completely disregard the old survey! Hi Dekazer, That sounds like good solid advice to me. Thanks! I'm certainly finding this whole process a bit daunting. Not only do I know nothing about boats (apart from what I've learnt on here over the past year), I'm also facing the biggest purchase of my life, coupled with deadlines on two fronts: 1) I have to get all my documents (BSC, insurance, licence, etc.) to my local council before Jan 11th to secure my residential mooring (originally they also wanted my boat on the Cam by that date, but have relented due to stoppages on the Nene). 2) I'm lucky enough to have some limited spare time to sort all this out (which I probably won't have again until retirement!) I feel it's a 'now or never' situation - and I'd rather I try and fail, than not try at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekazer Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 We were new to boating when we bought ours - made loads of mistakes, I'd do it all so differently if we started again, but we love it. Go for it and make sure you keep us all up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larkshall Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Program is what you use on a computer ('forced' upon us by the Americans, unfortunately, who use that spelling routinely). Programme is the English spelling. To me, 'Program' implies a different pronunciation, as well as offending my sensibilities (as an old fart from a generation wot were tort to spel proper) Tim Agreed, have a green one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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