routerfixer Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hi All During a recent trip I had the fuel pipe on my BMC 1.8 fail from the lift pump to the fuel filter. Picture of failed pipe The old pipe was a very brittle copper pipe it was replaced with a new copper pipe as thats what the engineer had with him. He put a loop in the pipe to reduce vibration. He also said that this pipe should be a steel pipe and not copper as the copper gets brittle over time and thats why it failed. Conversations with a few other boaters have mentioned replacing a steel pipe with copper, I have seen pictures where this pipe seems to be a braided pipe too. I have found no mention of a steel part for this. Calcut don't seem to do even the copper one. So my question is should this be steel or copper or even due to the vibration a flexible braided pipe? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hi All During a recent trip I had the fuel pipe on my BMC 1.8 fail from the lift pump to the fuel filter. Picture of failed pipe The old pipe was a very brittle copper pipe it was replaced with a new copper pipe as thats what the engineer had with him. He put a loop in the pipe to reduce vibration. He also said that this pipe should be a steel pipe and not copper as the copper gets brittle over time and thats why it failed. Conversations with a few other boaters have mentioned replacing a steel pipe with copper, I have seen pictures where this pipe seems to be a braided pipe too. I have found no mention of a steel part for this. Calcut don't seem to do even the copper one. So my question is should this be steel or copper or even due to the vibration a flexible braided pipe? Steve The originals were steel supported by brackets attached to the rear side plate bolt and one of the rear head nuts that is outside the rocker cover (from memory). I see nothing wrong with copper providing it is well supported so it can not vibrate and/or it is removed every few years, heated to cherry red, and allowed to cool. This re-softens the pipe. As it is on the supply side of the filter then the filter should trap any oxides this process produces inside the pipe. An old fashioned garage (if you can find one) should be able to supply and bend to pattern a new length of steel pipe but I fear that you would need a little pipe bender for steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinJ Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 During a recent trip I had the fuel pipe on my BMC 1.8 fail from the lift pump to the fuel filter. Picture of failed pipe The old pipe was a very brittle copper pipe it was replaced with a new copper pipe as thats what the engineer had with him. He put a loop in the pipe to reduce vibration. He also said that this pipe should be a steel pipe and not copper as the copper gets brittle over time and thats why it failed. Conversations with a few other boaters have mentioned replacing a steel pipe with copper, I have seen pictures where this pipe seems to be a braided pipe too. I have found no mention of a steel part for this. Calcut don't seem to do even the copper one. So my question is should this be steel or copper or even due to the vibration a flexible braided pipe? Because BMC's were fitted with a variety of different type and positions of fuel filters and the lift pumps can be set up for outlet at different points, it is unlikely these pipes were a standard fitting, but made up as required. Correct they are usually steel, since there should normally be no vibration if they are secured as the lift pump and filter are usually fixed to the engine block! It is possible it has been strained when it was removed without the fastening clamps being removed too, of the clamps were never fitted! These pipes usually fail near the injector pump or on the return pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted September 5, 2012 Report Share Posted September 5, 2012 All engines vibrate, and at certain rpm vibrate ''buzz'' at a very high frequency, this is what sets up work hardening of pipework. Make sure all pipes copper or steel are accurate fits before tightening so as not to stress the pipe in any way. Support all pipework very frequently with rubber grommeted brackets, even adding more over and above what the manufacturer fitted if you think necessary, this includes the high pressure injector pump to injector pipes also, and fix these brackets so that they fit comfortably with no stress on the pipework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
routerfixer Posted September 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2012 Thanks everyone. Looks like I will be checking how well the current pipe is mounted this weekend. I have a feeling that it has no support at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moir Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Hi everyone Been a member since I bought a cruiser about 6 months ago but this is my first post and have found valuable information along the way. I just have 2 questions I am hoping someone can help me with. I have not had my narrow boat on the water yet and have it dry docked where I live on a farm annexe. I have been working extremely hard since I bought her and after starting up the Lister diesel engine today has made me more excited than the day I started working on her. I noticed that a few of the fuel pipe connections between the fuel tank and fuel filter are leaking and they are quite bent and forlorn looking. Is it possible and compliant to fit flexible hose instead of copper or steel like Steve enquired? I know that this may distract from a more traditional look but I am considering the option. Second question is, can anyone offer me advice on a new or used diesel tank? Once I had scraped the muck off the existing one I noticed very bad pitting along the entire length where it has been welded and the steel does not feel very thick at all. I received a quotation for a customised polyethylene tank for about £480. Once again, not traditional I suppose but I am hoping to avoid the rusting in future. Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 These should be able to supply flexible fuel lines: http://www.pirtek.co.uk/ We have a LPWS3 in our boat with flexible fuel connections from the shut off valves to the fuel pump. There are also suppliers on eBay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-PIPE-Braided-Flexible-Hose-RUBBER-Engine-Black-Oil-Air-Water-Diesel-Petrol-/201082833565?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2ed1788a9d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) I also think it's a question of what sort of copper pipe is being used. Copper pipe is commonly used for LPG installations for example and these may also be subject to vibration (although perhaps not as much as fuel pipes in proximity to the engine). However, the potential impact of a gas pipe failure is probably worse than a diesel fuel pipe failure, so for that reason the correct grade of soft copper pipe is used which can cope with the vibrations. I assume for the same reason the correct grade of copper pipe must also be used for fuel pipe applications, although no doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong. Hi everyone Been a member since I bought a cruiser about 6 months ago but this is my first post and have found valuable information along the way. I just have 2 questions I am hoping someone can help me with. I have not had my narrow boat on the water yet and have it dry docked where I live on a farm annexe. I have been working extremely hard since I bought her and after starting up the Lister diesel engine today has made me more excited than the day I started working on her. I noticed that a few of the fuel pipe connections between the fuel tank and fuel filter are leaking and they are quite bent and forlorn looking. Is it possible and compliant to fit flexible hose instead of copper or steel like Steve enquired? I know that this may distract from a more traditional look but I am considering the option. Second question is, can anyone offer me advice on a new or used diesel tank? Once I had scraped the muck off the existing one I noticed very bad pitting along the entire length where it has been welded and the steel does not feel very thick at all. I received a quotation for a customised polyethylene tank for about £480. Once again, not traditional I suppose but I am hoping to avoid the rusting in future. Alec I'm not sure, but do you really need to underline your posts? Edited February 14, 2015 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 (edited) I think Moir is probably used to handwriting on lined paper, as perhaps his writing goes all wonky and curves uphill and downhill all willynilly like if he writes on unlined and thinks if he doesn't underline it when online it'll happen also. Oh! Hello Moir and welcome. Edited February 14, 2015 by bizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Hi All During a recent trip I had the fuel pipe on my BMC 1.8 fail from the lift pump to the fuel filter. Picture of failed pipe (snip) Looks an unusual failure mode: I'd have expected it to go at one of the fittings, and to have leaked enough to stop the engine before its final meiosis! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Saunders Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 If that fuel pipe is from a bulkhead mounted fuel filter to the engine mounted pump it should be a flexible hose marked with appropriate BS/ISO numbers to comply with the BSS. Even the vibration of a solidly mounted engine could fracture a coiled copper or steel pipe. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Taylor Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 Hi, there is an alternative to copper and steel piping called Kunifer that is widely used in the motor trade for brake pipes, its easy to bend and is corrosion proof and does not suffer from fatigue. Might be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moir Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Hi all Not sure why my post was underlined, does not seem to be doing it now. Alan, the pipe from the bulkhead mounted fuel filter to another small engine mounted filter is indeed a coiled copper pipe. I will make sure I change that one as well, thanks for the heads up. Thanks Geoff, that looks exactly like what I was thinking of and the price is more than reasonable too. Thanks bizzard! Alec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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