emergency services location info

[keble]

Jason, excellent idea.

I volunteer to do the G&S. Might do more in time.

I did a TV Aerial direction web page once ...

[Morat]

Where is the conclusive evidence of this please - because the local police have said to phone 999.

 

Dave

I was told a similar thing by a first aid instructor recently. It doesn't make much sense to me, surely it would be publicised if it were true. Also, the level of accuracy he was claiming (<2m) would need GPS and not all phones have GPS.

[Grace and Favour]

When foning emergency services from a mobile fone just dial 112 not 999 the 112 system pinpoints your location from your fone signal and tells operator of your location.

 

Tim

 

It would appear that some folks simply don't believe you, MrSmelly..........

 

 

Oh dear.

[Graham Davis]

When foning emergency services from a mobile fone just dial 112 not 999 the 112 system pinpoints your location from your fone signal and tells operator of your location.

 

Tim

 

Tim,

We've been through this matter on this Forum before, and I'm sorry but that is NOT correct. Both numbers connect to exactly the same system in the UK. It is only in some parts of the EU that the 112 number gives a rough fix. The system is not, and according to the Government, will not be used here.

This matter has been looked at in some detail by the National 4x4 Response Network, who have had discussions with both the phone companies and the Govt.

[nb Innisfree]

Tim,

We've been through this matter on this Forum before, and I'm sorry but that is NOT correct. Both numbers connect to exactly the same system in the UK. It is only in some parts of the EU that the 112 number gives a rough fix. The system is not, and according to the Government, will not be used here.

This matter has been looked at in some detail by the National 4x4 Response Network, who have had discussions with both the phone companies and the Govt.

 

Another myth is you can only dial 112 from a locked keypad when in fact it works with 112 and 999.

[twbm]

Hi Dave

 

I recently went on an mca approved sea survival course and they said that was the one to use. It has long been an emergency number, also 911 works in the uk.

 

Tim

 

911 may work if your mobile phone provider chooses to forward it to 999. It does not work from land lines.

Edited August 5, 2012 by twbm

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

112 is a part of the GSM spec, which all phones match. Whichever mobile provider has coverage of your phone will forward it to the emergency services controller, as Graham says.

 

As the signal is initially picked up by the mobile network intercepting it before being forwarded by landline, the mobile operator will have information on which cell of their network has received the strongest signal....however - this triangulation of a signal is only as accurate as the spacing of the cells allows, and wouldn't help you much in a rural situation.

 

Evidence of this recently from the little girl who dialled 999 to report that her mother had collapsed, but didn't tell the operator where they were and they had to appeal for people to find her...anyone know how that one turned out BTW?

 

As I've mentioned above...I've had the 'mobile phone conversation with a police controller in an completely different area to me' - it would be nice if the systems tied up, but they don't.

 

Also - thanks Keble! I think this might need to gather critical mass before it gets going, good to have your support - pleae let me know if you need to discuss anything around it or have suggestions to include...this is an open table folks, not my pet project,

 

Jas

[IanM]

Evidence of this recently from the little girl who dialled 999 to report that her mother had collapsed, but didn't tell the operator where they were and they had to appeal for people to find her...anyone know how that one turned out BTW?

 

Turned out to be a hoax.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-19067822

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

Well, glad in one way (that there wasn't an injury) more than a bit depressed that someone would do that!

[DaveC]

 

 

As the signal is initially picked up by the mobile network intercepting it before being forwarded by landline, the mobile operator will have information on which cell of their network has received the strongest signal....however - this triangulation of a signal is only as accurate as the spacing of the cells allows, and wouldn't help you much in a rural situation.

 

 

The information as to which cell is used will be exactly the same whether the call is made via 112, 911 or 999.

 

Dave

[GeoffS]

Do you have the blank form in Excel format for ease of filling out? If not I will create one. I will do my area of the Southern GU if you would like.

[twbm]

Whilst were on about calling the emergency services, 101 to contact the police re non urgent matters will connect you to the local force.

 

'Local Force' as in the one that covers the area the mast you're connected to sits in, that is.

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

Hi Dave, what I've been told is that the 112 is initially handled by an operator from the mobile network, then tasked to the specific local emergency services depending on which area you are in, whereas 999 isn't.

 

My understanding is that 999 on a mobile will get to the emergency operator, but they will not have the same locational information as the mobile operator, so there's the potential for an extra step of questioning about location. I have certainly had personal experience of using both numbers, and with 999 there was a bit more mucking about locating which force area I was in.

 

I wasn't aware that the situation had changed, though it may have done. Certainly from the point of view of NWAS operations room in April, their early questions centred around part addresses or postcodes, so they aren't expecting or relying on further locational info from the mobile operator.

 

Either way, if the caller knows where they are with a reasonable degree of certainty it will make calling in help more effective, which is why I believe it's worth linking up bridge numbers to road addresses and postcodes.

 

cheers, Jas

 

Hi Geoff - thanks for volunteering - I will put a spreadsheet download file on the website tomorrow (can't do it from this machine - I would have to be able to remember a pile of passwords!). There is a PDF file there, so if you wanted to use those headings that would be fine, but as I say I'll put the file on there so you can get at it tomorrow.

 

cheers, Jas

[Graham Davis]

Jason

999 or 112 from a mobile go to exactly the same operators, who get exactly the same info from either number. As has been said, there is NO difference between the numbers in the UK. i have used both numbers personally and got the same Control system directly each time.

 

I don't know how far your data sheets are intending to cover, but certainly Mid & West Wales Fire & Rescue, and the Ambulance Service, worked with the local Young Farmers recently in providing all remote farms and houses with a printed sticker with their OS 2 letter/6 figure (AB 123 456) map reference to be quoted in an emergency, so I would expect the same to apply to bridge positions on the Brecon & Monmouth and possibly the Llangollen in North Wales's area.

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

Thanks Dave, Graham : Fair play, that's the line to go forward with. I had a chat with a friend of mine who's an engineer at vodaphone, so I'm going to get back to the source of the info I had originally and update him and the notes I use in lessons - this is why it's good to get it out for peer review.

 

The sticker with locations on is a good idea - If all bridges etc (bearing in mind there are long stretches without bridges in some parts of the country) had stickers like that on them then we wouldn't need lists of locations. If they do have bridge numbers for the llangollen and the M&B then that would cover those areas - I'll get in contact with them.

 

cheers, Jas

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

Hi Geoff - there is now a CSV file of the headings in used in the example on my website www.northern-lights-training.co.uk - look for the "Bridging the Gap" page. Happy to accept contributions in .XLS or other formats as well,

 

cheers, Jas

[Jason Day - Sheffield]

HI All - thanks for your interest and involvement - Please do keep on contributing and if you can find the time to do a bit of bridge spottign on your travels it would add to the pot. Have a look at the website www..northern-lights-training.co.uk for details.

 

I'm going to be offline mostly for the next couple of weeks, but add anything here and I'll check when I get back,

 

cheers, Jas

[GeoffS]

E Mail sent with local details.