Continuous Cruising with a vehicle??

[Ange]

I believe Ange n Dave on here both CC (probably along with many others) and have a car -

 

I'm sure they will advise when they see this thread.

 

 

Indeed we do We did CC our first year without a car but found the aggravation of moving the car every couple of weeks outweighed by the aggro of getting buses/trains to visit our family, find a decent sized supermarket, visit "off canal" places of interest, etc.

 

Having the bike aboard will make your life much easier - Dave walks/cycles/trains it back to the car depending on the distance involved. We use common sense when leaving the car - somewhere well lit where there's a few people around. Quite often kerb side in a housing estate is a good option - though preferably not outside someone's front door! I would agree that an ambulance is likely to attract a little more attention though!

 

The only problem we've had in two years is when we left the car on a bridge in Tamworth - some scrote thought it'd be really funny to lob a stone in passing and take our the back windscreen But then in hindsight it wasn't the cleverest of places to leave it, so we've learnt from that one.

 

 

 

Moving car and boat is something that you get used to, at times I don't see the car for days or even weeks.

Down in the SE it was very simple to find a transport link, the further North you go it becomes more of a challenge.

I use bike/train/bus or any available persons car!!

When you live on the cut, after a while you meet other people moving in roughly the same direction, and move a car ahead, once you get the boat there, you go back for the other one.

I wouldn't have thought you need the bike and ambulance, so would lose the ambulance as it is far more difficult to 'leave' in a convenient street , car park or hedge.

 

What he said! Agree totally on transport links. It's been pretty good in the Midlands, but when we were on the Lancaster there were very few train stations.

[Chris Pink]

So, where does a tug get it's strength from....

 

the angle created by the gunwale side plank join

[Guest]

So, where does a tug get it's strength from....

 

That aside most tug decks I've seen either have a bit more freeboard (though it's hard to tell from the pic.) and/or they tend not to have vents located where any water that washes onto the tug deck would readily fill the cabin (given the comments about water washing into the boat.)

[David Mack]

I repeat, this is a very very stupid thing to do to a boat whatever gender you are.

 

I would strongly advise the OP to put in some stiffening before the hull starts to twist and distort - because it surely will.

I would also advise that some kind of watertight bulkhead was fabricated as I'd be a bit worried about water comin in.

 

irony and humour apart - I am actually very shocked by this.

 

I think some of you are getting over excited by this!

 

This is a typical modern narrow boat with an open foredeck. So there will already have been drain openings at deck level. So creating a bigger opening like this won't have significantly increased the risk of downflooding.

 

And if the foredeck is the usual steel plate welded to the sides, then there is already more than enough strength and stiffness for the cutout not to matter.

 

If it had been my boat I think I would have had the cutout section put back on hinges, simply to improve the look when not actually moving the bike on and off, and also to reduce any water inflow when the occasional big wave comes past. A bottom hinge would be neatest, but the gunwale fold would get in the way of moving the bike, so an outward hinge at the rear edge would be more practical - just make sure the catch is secure before going through narrow locks.

 

This sort of detail is quite common on boats built/adapted for wheelchair users.

[Chris Pink]

 

 

 

This sort of detail is quite common on boats built/adapted for wheelchair users.

 

With no sort of stiffening?

 

or assessment of the forces involved?

 

Canal boats may be metal bricks floating in a muddy ditch but that doesn't excuse them from the basic of naval design. (otherwise why bother with RCD certification of a hull).

 

Or is it your assertion that this modification lies within the RCD?

 

You've obviously not seen a twisted boat hull?

 

just to give a small example - what do you think will happen with an impact on the bow? on the port quarter?

 

..most of the dropped gunwales I've seen have incorporated horizontal stiffening - in effect a continuation of the gunwale at the different heights.

 

Every proper hull opening I have ever seen has some kind of stiffening around the flat edges of the hole.

 

People on here are forever bleating on about insurance - what is your opinion of the likelihood of a payout in the event of a sinking or collision damage?

[Guest]

This sort of detail is quite common on boats built/adapted for wheelchair users.

 

With boats built for a wheelchair user I think I would expect that gap to be incorporated into the original design in a way that the loss of the inherent strength the missing steel has resulted in is compensated for.

 

With boats adapted for a wheelchair user I would expect the adaptation to include additional strengthening to compensate for the loss of inherent strength that has been lost by removing such a large part of the hull (possibly from both sides).

 

I don't profess to be an expert but surely it's obvious that hacking out such a big piece of the boat can only have a potentially detrimental affect on the hulls integrity.

 

Given the comments above about wash onto the deck I'd be reluctant to cruise on even some of the relatively tame rivers we currently do, particularly on a windy day or passing some of the big commercial stuff.

 

All that said, it's not my boat and it's entirely the owners prerogative to do with it what they like, just as long as they realise the limitations and possible/suggested consequences.

[HappyBunny]

DIVE DIVE DIVE .... Ah ha .... I suspected a bit of flak

 

Yes ... it's true, I do have titty bumps

 

And yes, a welder and some strengthening was also involved in the process

 

And yes, despite being so "stupid" .... ( ), even I had managed to work out that both sides would need to be cut

 

The cut outs bolt back in place and bizarrely, everyone who has actually seen the work on boat so far has said what a tidy job, but each to their own (hastily corrects spelling mistake before generating the usual barrage of abuse for that )

 

I am at a loss to understand the talk of sealing off my cabin doors and other water problems .... ummm how do you think the water got off the front deck prior to having the sides cut? .... do please enlighten me further, I fear my rank stupidity may have caused me to overlook something crucial ....

 

I also have other, heavier bikes, but didn't want to struggle getting any of them on and off on a regular basis, so went for this option after much advice, discussion and debate .... but hey .... time will tell .... and thanks for being so "gentle" with me and sharing for your thoughts on my vehicle question.

 

OOOps ... "a welder and some strengthening WERE involved" tsk tsk see teacher after class

[Chris Pink]

Makes you kind of wonder why they didn't cut doors between the motor and the butty in the old days.

 

You appear to be conflating a stupid act and a stupid person. I don't know you so that was not my intention.

 

I stand by the one, i have no opinion on the other.

[HappyBunny]

Makes you kind of wonder why they didn't cut doors between the motor and the butty in the old days.

 

You appear to be conflating a stupid act and a stupid person. I don't know you so that was not my intention.

 

I stand by the one, i have no opinion on the other.

 

"Is this, he wonders, because I expect women to have more sense or because stupidity isn't gender specific."

 

It would appear that conflation is not gender specific either .... unless of course you meant the execution of stupid acts is not gender specific .... rather than stupidity itself .... but hey, lets not split semantic hairs eh? ....

 

Hmmm I value some of the comments made, especially those that were not based on erroneous assumptions, and just to clarify one other point .... despite my tittybumps, I also have a good ten inches

[Chris Pink]

Well, as 'appens I am male, quite capable of stupid acts, some even more than once but would refute an accusation of stupidity.

 

I've also kept a 500cc bike on my boat, owned a car and travelled around (known round here as the boatie transport shuffle) and carried so much stuff between two boats with gunwales at 4' height that I have long contemplated the feasibility of hacking a hole in the side.

 

Where we differ is that I arrived at the opposite conclusion to you.

[David Mack]

With no sort of stiffening?

 

Well none is needed at the back end since it is so close to the bulkhead. We can't see what happens at the front end, but a plate over the cut end to brace the gunwale to the side to the deck wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

or assessment of the forces involved?

 

Do you think he average clonecraft builder calculates the forces on anything? No I don't thing any assessment of the forces involved is necessary.

 

Canal boats may be metal bricks floating in a muddy ditch but that doesn't excuse them from the basic of naval design. (otherwise why bother with RCD certification of a hull).

 

Or is it your assertion that this modification lies within the RCD?

 

Well again most clonecraft don't exhibit a huge amount of 'naval design'. The RCD applies to new craft, but for Category D craft the requirements for hull strength calculations are I believe minimal/non existent, and the builder self certifies. The RCD does not apply to subsequent modifications such as this.

 

You've obviously not seen a twisted boat hull?

 

Oh I have, but only in open boats. In this case, the boat behind the cutout consists of a welded metal tube (bottom, hull sides, cabin sides, roof) which is immensely stiff in torsion, so no possibility of twisting. And the well deck section is also a welded tube (bottom, sides, well deck plate) and so again is torsionally stiff.

 

just to give a small example - what do you think will happen with an impact on the bow? on the port quarter?

 

On the bow - absolutely nothing. On the port quarter - scratched paint, unless you were exceedingly unlucky to take a significant hit high up and close to the cutout, when you might bend in a bit close to the opening. A bracing plate over the cut end as I suggested above would help in this case.

 

..most of the dropped gunwales I've seen have incorporated horizontal stiffening - in effect a continuation of the gunwale at the different heights.

 

Every proper hull opening I have ever seen has some kind of stiffening around the flat edges of the hole.

 

Agreed, this is a cleaner detail.

 

People on here are forever bleating on about insurance - what is your opinion of the likelihood of a payout in the event of a sinking or collision damage?

 

Since the cutout is no lower than the deck drains which (presumably) existed before, the risk of sinking is unchanged. Accident damage attributable to the existence of the cutout, if any, would be localised to the area of the cutout, and would cost little to repair. So taking into account the excess and the effect on future premiums is probably not worth claiming on the insurance for, and/or would be an amount the insurance company is unlikely to quibble over.

[sueb]

Looks very much like our boat. We have cut out gunnels & haven't sunk yet. Been on the Thames, Severn & Trent with no trouble and the hull hasn't twisted . You shouldn't have problems as you can get bike in the camper. Try it for awhile and see. We abandon vehicles all over the place.

[jelunga]

I was it seems.

 

Is this, he wonders, because I expect women to have more sense or because stupidity isn't gender specific.

 

I repeat, this is a very very stupid thing to do to a boat whatever gender you are.

 

I would strongly advise the OP to put in some stiffening before the hull starts to twist and distort - because it surely will.

I would also advise that some kind of watertight bulkhead was fabricated as I'd be a bit worried about water comin in.

 

irony and humour apart - I am actually very shocked by this.

 

 

..

NB Belle built by Sandhills and owned by Chris Wells has removable gunwales on both sides of the foredeck for the same reason. However it was designed like that and is strengthened to suit.

Very nice boat.

[George94]

To answer the OP's question, having both car and boat is possible, though it's easier to do on some canals than others. The K&A is particularly well-suited to polyvehicularism because, with admirable foresight, somebody built a railway alongside the canal.

 

This means you can cruise from station to station, moor the boat, then grab a train for the five minute ride back to the place you left four hours earlier, and collect the motor. Assuming it hasn't been irreparably vandalised of course, or used to make corn circles.

 

Elsewhere, as somebody said, a bike or a long walk will achieve the same result, but less quickly.

 

I have to say, I can't believe the hysterical and ill-considered reaction to the cut-outs. They may cause dismay aesthetically, of course, and no doubt they will weaken the hull by 10% or so. But since a NB hull is about a hundred times stronger than it needs to be, this is of little consequence.

Edited June 12, 2012 by George94

[Guest]

To answer the OP's question, having both car and boat is possible, though it's easier to do on some canals than others. The K&A is particularly well-suited to polyvehicularism because, with admirable foresight, somebody built a railway alongside the canal.

 

This means you can cruise from station to station, moor the boat, then grab a train for the five minute ride back to the place you left four hours earlier, and collect the motor. Assuming it hasn't been irreparably vandalised of course, or used to make corn circles.

 

Elsewhere, as somebody said, a bike or a long walk will achieve the same result, but less quickly.

 

I have to say, I can't believe the hysterical and ill-considered reaction to the cut-outs. They may cause dismay aesthetically, of course, and no doubt they will weaken the hull by 10% or so. But since a NB hull is about a hundred times stronger than it needs to be, this is of little consequence.

 

hysterical..bollocks..

[matty40s]

hysterical..bollocks..

I dunno Martin, Chris was getting pretty worked up about it....

[bowten]

"Is this, he wonders, because I expect women to have more sense or because stupidity isn't gender specific."

 

It would appear that conflation is not gender specific either .... unless of course you meant the execution of stupid acts is not gender specific .... rather than stupidity itself .... but hey, lets not split semantic hairs eh? ....

 

Hmmm I value some of the comments made, especially those that were not based on erroneous assumptions, and just to clarify one other point .... despite my tittybumps, I also have a good ten inches

Hells bells,ten inches of what?

[fudd]

 

Hells bells,ten inches of what?

 

I'm waiting to find out too!

[HappyBunny]

Hells bells,ten inches of what?

 

Freeboard with plenty of stiffening (fnerk fnerk)

 

And for anyone contemplating similar modifications, the comments made by David Mack above are pretty much the same as those made by the two boat builders I consulted and the very nice man who did the cutting work..... however, time will tell, and when I am sitting on the towpath next to my sunken boat, twisted hull protruding from the water like Chesterfield church spire, please feel free to say "I told you so"

 

It would be a dull old world, lacking in innovation, without people doing the odd "stupid" thing. I recieved similar "shock, horror, you can't do that" remarks about the bike rack I had on a previous home, but managed to take an assortment of bikes all over Britain and Europe on it for years .... even a weighty XS1100 .... no problem ..... (thats my old xf650 in the pic)(the perkins engine in the bus had dropped a valve at the time )

 

Anyway, with all the helpful advice on vehicle shuffling from you good people, and much thought, I have decided to list the ambulance on fleabay later .... so if anyone is interested get in touch, many thanks

 

[Chris Pink]

Putting aside my opinion of what you've done to your boat can I ask why you didn't simply put a similar rack at gunwale height? After all the bank is as likely to be there as at the base of your cutout.

 

Ps nice bus

[moam1]

well happy bunny .or is it going to be unhappy bunny soon.i dont think your boat will pass the next mot for the cannals .as you have killed her off it looks

[sueb]

well happy bunny .or is it going to be unhappy bunny soon.i dont think your boat will pass the next mot for the cannals .as you have killed her off it looks

Hull integrity doesn't come into the bss. Some people don't read the op posts. She doesn't need a train etc. she has a bike and a van capable of carrying the bike. My advice is try it. We have a camper and a boat and it is a lovely combination

[HappyBunny]

Putting aside my opinion of what you've done to your boat can I ask why you didn't simply put a similar rack at gunwale height? After all the bank is as likely to be there as at the base of your cutout.

 

Ps nice bus

 

It was an option I seriously considered ....

 

(along with several others, including one involving the lifting mechanism from an old NHS bed .....Then there were all the crane/ turntable options ..... oh what fun I had )

 

.... but rejected in part because I thought the bike would be more secure on deck, with the cut out sides locked back in place, and also because I can fairly quickly manoeuvre the bike on deck to get her on one side or the other if I need to use my pole, for jumping on and off, mooring, getting the sun louger out, enjoying the view etc etc etc ..... also my Bonny chop should (fingers crossed) just squeeze on the deck this way, but is too long to go across the boat .... turntables .... and the deck isn't littered up with a rack ..... and if the bank is high then I can just plank the bike on deck .... and also because I love the sound of a grinder in the morning

 

Also considered rack on the back of the boat ..... and have a couple of less mobile chums who may now be able to get on deck, even if they can't manage the steps down into the boat ...

 

And yes, she was a great bus .... known as The Betamax Beast

 

As for the safety certificate aspect, I clarified that prior to the work being carried out and was assured (as SueB states) would not be a problem .... as I said, time will tell

[Macca61]

We do it all the time on the Thames, i have a van for work and the Captain has her car, its just a case of forward planning, if you know where you are going take one there and leave it, collect with the other, alternatively public transport, there is always a way but its a bit of faffing about.

[madcat]

Hi HappyBunny,the ambulance sounds interesting and I think probably with the bike your road transport needs could well be catered for. If your vehicle is a live in or suitable for becoming one or a handy camper for short trips and festivals it may be worth listing on uk hippy.Not sure how the rules work exactly but photos will be a big help.You could list it on here with photos in the sale and wanted section as well most likely.I will be curious but probably should not be thinking of another project however tempted I might be.

I assumed that you would have made your modifications after recieving sound advice.My experience of the female of the species [i am one after all] is that for the most part we like things done proper and leave the truly barmy stuff to the men.

After that comment I better exit stage left via the catflap quickly or duck behind the Big Nasty to avoid incoming. madcat