Mooring with centre line or tight ropes

[routrax]

Hi All,

 

Just a quick post to say be aware of the fluctuating water levels at the moment.

I've re-tied 3 boats in the last week as they tightly tied their centre line or bow/stern lines whilst mooring. I nearly sank my boat a couple of years ago by doing this and am still refitting because of the damp caused by my mistake

 

Keep floating!

 

Steve

[BlueStringPudding]

Just came back to my boat to find that someone had loosened off the back rope for me. The river by the canal has flooded, raising the canal levels significantly. I can tell from the grubby water line that since I left for work this morning, my boat had listed over a good five inches.

 

Changed into my don't-mind-if-it-gets-wet-n-dirty clothes and loosened bow and stern ropes right off, in case the water levels rise any more. If the water does rise much more there's a danger the swim will catch on the bank. I can only just climb into the boat, it's so high now! much higher and I'll have to jump onto the bow arse first and swing my leg over! Tres elegant

[routrax]

Glad to hear that someone cared for your boat, pass it forward, nobody wants to come home to a sunken boat!

[BlueStringPudding]

I've done it many a time for other boats. Always would do too. Not to mention rescuing a few adrift boats in the past... That's invariably challenging!

[Whitewater]

Just came back to my boat to find that someone had loosened off the back rope for me. The river by the canal has flooded, raising the canal levels significantly. I can tell from the grubby water line that since I left for work this morning, my boat had listed over a good five inches.

 

Changed into my don't-mind-if-it-gets-wet-n-dirty clothes and loosened bow and stern ropes right off, in case the water levels rise any more. If the water does rise much more there's a danger the swim will catch on the bank. I can only just climb into the boat, it's so high now! much higher and I'll have to jump onto the bow arse first and swing my leg over! Tres elegant

Why don't you spring your boat properly, this should allow several inches in both directions for it to rise and fall.

[BlueStringPudding]

What's "proper" springs as opposed to improper springs?

[Whitewater]

What's "proper" springs as opposed to improper springs?

Well i was going to try and find a diagram for you... however not so sure

[routrax]

Hi Whitewater,

This was intended as a '...take care and look out for others...' post, rather than a '...you're doing it wrong...' post.

Regards

Steve

[BlueStringPudding]

No worries, Rout, I want to know how to do springs that allow rise and fall. It'll make me happier leaving the boat tomorrow to go to work.

Edited June 11, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[Whitewater]

Hi Whitewater,

This was intended as a '...take care and look out for others...' post, rather than a '...you're doing it wrong...' post.

Regards

Steve

As long as others are about

[BlueStringPudding]

Tell me how to do it, you!

Edited June 11, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[Whitewater]

Tell me how to do it, you!

My link try here.

 

Hi Whitewater,

This was intended as a '...take care and look out for others...' post, rather than a '...you're doing it wrong...' post.

Regards

Steve

Sorry didn't mean to be snippy, however serious nicotine withdrawls, been two weeks now. Also from my experience centre lines and others not being around are the main causes of most boats either sinking or damaging themsleves hanging up.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Whitewater

[Iain_S]

Traditionally, mooring ropes can be breast ropes, which run about 90 degrees to the boat, bow and stern ropes, which run from the ends (or near the ends) of the boat at as shallow an angle as possible, and springs, which run from the ends along the length of the boat. Any pair (bow and stern, breast ropes, or springs can be omitted, and the boat will still stay against the bank and be restricted in fore and aft movement.

 

Canal boats often (usually) moor on breast ropes only, which have the disadvantage that they are most affected by rise and fall of water level, being the shortest. If the boat is moored on bow and stern ropes, and springs, it will still stay parallel to the bank, but is less affected by changing water level.

 

 

Iain

 

Edited to add :Whitewater beat me to it, and his link explains it a bit more clearly

Edited June 11, 2012 by Iain_S

[routrax]

My link try here.

 

 

Sorry didn't mean to be snippy, however serious nicotine withdrawls, been two weeks now. Also from my experience centre lines and others not being around are the main causes of most boats either sinking or damaging themsleves hanging up.

 

No problem, I'm sure the link will be useful to all who click on it.

 

Good luck with the giving up fags!

[BlueStringPudding]

Thanks, Whitewater. Just trying to get my head round how the crossed red ropes would work for a 65ft narrowboat... When I've done "springs" they are two ropes from the back and two from the front... And not particularly long ropes. Which was why I couldn't understand how springs would allow the boat to move up and down. I think I get this, but not sure I want to try it out when I'm going to leave the boat all day. I'll just lengthen my stern rope.

 

Traditionally, mooring ropes can be breast ropes, which run about 90 degrees to the boat, bow and stern ropes, which run from the ends (or near the ends) of the boat at as shallow an angle as possible, and springs, which run from the ends along the length of the boat. Any pair (bow and stern, breast ropes, or springs can be omitted, and the boat will still stay against the bank and be restricted in fore and aft movement.

 

Canal boats often (usually) moor on breast ropes only, which have the disadvantage that they are most affected by rise and fall of water level, being the shortest. If the boat is moored on bow and stern ropes, and springs, it will still stay parallel to the bank, but is less affected by changing water level.

 

 

Iain

 

Edited to add :Whitewater beat me to it, and his link explains it a bit more clearly

 

Thanks, Iain. That's a bit simpler. I always more with Bow and Stern ropes, looking at this diagram. However my stern rope is a little short at the moment so I'll lengthen that in the morning. Also my stern rope doesnt come from the cleat opposite the bank, it comes from the one closest to the bank. How does using the opposite cleat help?

 

If I moor on pins, so there's a risk that "speedboats" will pull them out in wet weather I moor with Bow and Stern ropes plus additional ropes coming from the same cleats, out at around 90 degrees to the Bow and Stern ropes. That significantly helps the forwards and backwards movement you can get sometimes. I always called that "springs" but it seems that was a misnomer.

 

The other thing to note is that I don't have a cleat where the bow green rope comes from on your diagram. That would have to come from the tip of the bow on my boat (eg from the same cleat as the Bow rope)

Edited June 11, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[Whitewater]

Thanks, Whitewater. Just trying to get my head round how the crossed red ropes would work for a 65ft narrowboat... When I've done "springs" they are two ropes from the back and two from the front... And not particularly long ropes. Which was why I couldn't understand how springs would allow the boat to move up and down. I think I get this, but not sure I want to try it out when I'm going to leave the boat all day. I'll just lengthen my stern rope.

 

 

 

Thanks, Iain. That's a bit simpler. I always more with Bow and Stern ropes, looking at this diagram. However my stern rope is a little short at the moment so I'll lengthen that in the morning. Also my stern rope doesnt come from the cleat opposite the bank, it comes from the one closest to the bank. How does using the opposite cleat help?

 

If I moor on pins, so there's a risk that "speedboats" will pull them out in wet weather I moor with Bow and Stern ropes plus additional ropes coming from the same cleats, out at around 90 degrees to the Bow and Stern ropes. That significantly helps the forwards and backwards movement you can get sometimes. I always called that "springs" but it seems that was a misnomer.

 

The other thing to note is that I don't have a cleat where the bow green rope comes from on your diagram. That would have to come from the tip of the bow on my boat (eg from the same cleat as the Bow rope)

It is not essential that the springs cross it is more that they offer more security and also more flexibity in the rising or falling levels

 

Also my stern rope doesnt come from the cleat opposite the bank, it comes from the one closest to the bank. How does using the opposite cleat help?

 

It all a about pythagoras theorem and the angles involved. it is better to have a long line running off the offside cleat as it gives u more up and down movement so less to tip over

[Tam & Di]

Thanks, Whitewater. Just trying to get my head round how the crossed red ropes would work for a 65ft narrowboat... When I've done "springs" they are two ropes from the back and two from the front... And not particularly long ropes. Which was why I couldn't understand how springs would allow the boat to move up and down. I think I get this, but not sure I want to try it out when I'm going to leave the boat all day. I'll just lengthen my stern rope.

 

 

 

Thanks, Iain. That's a bit simpler. I always more with Bow and Stern ropes, looking at this diagram. However my stern rope is a little short at the moment so I'll lengthen that in the morning. Also my stern rope doesnt come from the cleat opposite the bank, it comes from the one closest to the bank. How does using the opposite cleat help?

 

If I moor on pins, so there's a risk that "speedboats" will pull them out in wet weather I moor with Bow and Stern ropes plus additional ropes coming from the same cleats, out at around 90 degrees to the Bow and Stern ropes. That significantly helps the forwards and backwards movement you can get sometimes. I always called that "springs" but it seems that was a misnomer.

 

The other thing to note is that I don't have a cleat where the bow green rope comes from on your diagram. That would have to come from the tip of the bow on my boat (eg from the same cleat as the Bow rope)

 

Where you say "red" in the first bit I think you mean "green". The major point if the levels are likely to change (up or down) is not to have lines that are at 90 degrees from the front and back to some fixing on the bank (and certainly not from the roof, ever). To a large extent the longer you can have your fore and aft lines and the two springs, the better. Although the bow spring might foul on the leading edge of your cabin, which reduces the effective length of it, it will work OK from the tee stud. You do have to consider whether or not the water can rise enough for your boat to float up over the bank. If there is any chance of this you need to try to fix something between the hull and the edge of the bank to prevent it happening. Having a line from the side away from the bank will actually make it more likely to pull in, though it does have some advantages.

 

Edit to amplify:

It is much better to moor with springs as a matter of course, even on waters with no change in level. With springs, when someone races past you the first thing is his propellor will pull you towards him as he approaches, so e.g. your stern line and fore end spring will take the strain. Then as he comes nearer the high pressure wave he creates will push you backwards, and your fore end line and stern spring will take the strain. Your boat will ride backwards and forwards, but is far less likely to jerk about or come to any harm.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Tam & Di

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Canal boats often (usually) moor on breast ropes only,

 

<snip>

 

We almost never moor with breast ropes

 

Richard

[BlueStringPudding]

Where you say "red" in the first bit I think you mean "green". The major point if the levels are likely to change (up or down) is not to have lines that are at 90 degrees from the front and back to some fixing on the bank (and certainly not from the roof, ever). To a large extent the longer you can have your fore and aft lines and the two springs, the better. Although the bow spring might foul on the leading edge of your cabin, which reduces the effective length of it, it will work OK from the tee stud. You do have to consider whether or not the water can rise enough for your boat to float up over the bank. If there is any chance of this you need to try to fix something between the hull and the edge of the bank to prevent this. Having a line from the side away from the bank will actually make it more likely to pull in, though it does have some advantages.

 

Yes, I did mean green. Sorry. D'uh!

 

It does make me nervous that the swim of the boat could ride up over the bank, particularly. If the rest were to follow

Gawd knows what I'd try to wedge in between the boat and the bank to prevent this though Apart from strapping the boat pole vertically to the side of the boat, and not sure how long that would last before it snapped...

Edited June 11, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[Iain_S]

(snip)

Also my stern rope doesnt come from the cleat opposite the bank, it comes from the one closest to the bank. How does using the opposite cleat help?

 

(snip)

The other thing to note is that I don't have a cleat where the bow green rope comes from on your diagram. That would have to come from the tip of the bow on my boat (eg from the same cleat as the Bow rope)

 

The stern rope thing doesn't really matter: ideally, it should come the middle, as it's opposing the bow rope, but very few boats have a suitable attachment. Gamebird has a square stern, and I find that using the offside cleat keeps the stern (where the access door is) a bit closer to the bank.

 

No problem. Depending on the boat, it may rub against the cabin, in which case a bit of cloth wrapped round it will save the paintwork

 

Iain

[Barry]

 

 

 

It seems to me that when using springs, whose length and angle allow the boat to rise and fall with the water level, the use of breast ropes is not only unnecessary but counter productive.

 

What is the point of having long ropes at a shallow angle when the short breast ropes at right angles will still tip the boat?

[bizzard]

It seems to me that when using springs, whose length and angle allow the boat to rise and fall with the water level, the use of breast ropes is not only unnecessary but counter productive.

 

What is the point of having long ropes at a shallow angle when the short breast ropes at right angles will still tip the boat?

Breast ropes are or should only used temporarily to keep the boat close to a jetty or bank whilst perhaps passengers are boarding. Its not wise to leave a boat anywhere unattended with them especially if tight.

[BlueStringPudding]

I think Iain was using the diagram to show the difference between Breast ropes and springs with Bow and Stern ropes, not advocating the use of all three simultaneously.

Edited June 11, 2012 by BlueStringPudding

[Chris Pink]

Yes, I did mean green. Sorry. D'uh!

 

It does make me nervous that the swim of the boat could ride up over the bank, particularly. If the rest were to follow

Gawd knows what I'd try to wedge in between the boat and the bank to prevent this though Apart from strapping the boat pole vertically to the side of the boat, and not sure how long that would last before it snapped...

 

If it's a real danger where you moor then a piece of scaff tube beaten in to the river bed is the best thing to keep you off the bank.

[BlueStringPudding]

I suspect it's generally frowned upon to beat anything into the canal bed. So has anyone invented a contraption that is a pair of scaffold poles with rond anchors welded into them and third of the way up? They'd be excellent at preventing the boat riding up onto the bank in flood waters; could in some situations act as piling with sliding mooring chains on them; they wouldn't damage the canal bed, and would be hard to dislodge in short term flooding. If no one has invented please note the Pudding copyright is on that! Please place your orders now.