Ownership Dispute

[snailspace12]

Hi, New to the forum and need some urgent advice please. A friend of mine recently passed away unexpectedly leaving behind a 45ft narrowboat that he was living on, he was buying this boat off some guy and apparently only had 3 payments left to make on it totalling £1050, the boat was also sold on a handshake agreement.

 

His mum (next of kin) took possession of the boat and its contents. However now this guy is trying to say that he owns the boat and that he was renting it to my friend, and informed us that since my friends passing he has taken out some sort of insurance on the boat.

 

Eventually we decided to move the boat hoping that it would be safe from him, but on going back to check on the boat it had disappeared. We have since found out that the boat is now in secure moorings with the insurers, C Claims, Loss Adjusters, and now we are not sure how we go about getting it back.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Edited May 8, 2012 by snailspace12

[jelunga]

Hi, New to the forum and need some urgent advice please. A friend of mine recently passed away unexpectedly leaving behind a 45ft narrowboat that he was living on, he was buying this boat off some guy and apparently only had 3 payments left to make on it totalling £1050, the boat was also sold on a handshake agreement and no prove of ownership can be found.

 

His mum (next of kin) took possession of the boat and its contents. However now this guy is trying to say that he owns the boat and that he was renting it to my friend, and informed us that since my friends passing he has taken out some sort of insurance on the boat.

 

Eventually we decided to move the boat hoping that it would be safe from him, but on going back to check on the boat it had disappeared. We have since found out that the boat is now in secure moorings with the insurers, C Claims, Loss Adjusters, and now we are not sure how we go about getting it back.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

I would first suggest you try to obtain proof that payments were made. If by cheque then it will show on bank statements and the bank will be able to provide copies of the cheque. This would have to be done by the executor of your friend's estate.

 

If it was cash, then unless there are receipts from the vendor showing that the payments were made, then you might have problems. Was the license, insurance etc in your friends name?

 

There is usually great difficulty in proving ownership of small craft. But there is usually enough evidence to suggest, if you know what I mean.

 

 

 

Find some paper work.

[Guest wanted]

It's not green with red gunwhales is it?

[alan_fincher]

From your username I assume this is "Snails Pace" a 45 Liverpool Boat recently reported as missing, (presumably because you had moved it ?), and for which there was a police crime number given ?

 

Presumably, now it has apparently been found, the police are to some extent still involved, (yes ? / no ?), and hence surely there is some kind of process that will need to be gone through to actually establish who owns/owned how much of the boat, and what the situation was relating to any debts surrounding it ?

 

It's hard to see how anyone here can give you advice that will get the boat into your possession, if that is the situation here, isn't it ?

[snailspace12]

It's not green with red gunwhales is it?

 

Yes it is. Why do you ask?

[Guest wanted]

I think if this is the same boat, this forum may not be the best place to sort it out - it would appear that we have members on both sides of the fence and maybe a public spat will harm both or at least one of the sides.

 

I have no connection with either - just a heads up...

[Davidss]

Deleted, as comments overtaken by the posts of others, which arrived while I was typing.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Davidss

[alan_fincher]

Do the police still have any involvement in this boat, and the fact it got moved ?

[snailspace12]

It's not green with red gunwhales is it?

[Yes it is. Why do you ask?]

[RLWP]

Previous forum thread about this boat:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=46676&st=0&p=865315&hl=+snails%20+pace&fromsearch=1entry865315

 

Richard

[Roger Gunkel]

If you account is correct and your friend had not finished paying for the boat, then the verbal contract wasn't completed. It would also seem likely that if you were the deceased man's friend, then you would have no legal right to take possession of the boat and the man owed the money would still be the legal owner.

 

In the absence of any written proof or witnesses to the original deal, then whether it was a rental or a sale would seem to be impossible to prove. It would be essential for anyone buying a boat on this basis, to have the agreement in writing and a receipt for any payments made. I would also suggest that as the deal was not completed, the owner would be entitled to claim rental for the period that the boat was used.

 

In a formal hire purchase agreement, the goods would I believe, remain the property of the finance company until final payment was made. It could be argued that in this case, the boat was being hired until full purchase was made.

 

Not what you want to hear I'm sure, and others will be along to offer a more professional opinion.

 

Roger

 

EDITED to say that there were no replies when I first started replying to this, but have now read the other thread, so will leave my comments as I feel they are relevent to the question, but will not make further posts.

 

Roger

Edited May 8, 2012 by Roger Gunkel

[snailspace12]

You will find that the 'Forum View' is that on the basis of your single post, it doesn't know you, the boat, or any other party involved, so the forum cannot judge the validity of any statement, from anyone, and will be reluctant to take sides.

It is totally up to you what information you provide that will validate your position to total strangers (the forum).

 

You may find the approach 'hard' but experience has shown that being 'fair' is not easy when the forum only hears one side of a story.

 

Taking a purely procedural approach, if you assert payments have been made you need to find supporting evidence. The only evidence that springs to my mind (ignoring receipts) is matching withdrawals from a Bank or Building Society.

The regularity, size, and timing of such payments may support, or not, a possible purchase agreement rather than a rental agreement.

Details of any mooring fees paid, by whom and to whom, may also help.

 

If you were to name the boat, the person living aboard, and where it was moored, it's possible that someone on the Forum knew the individual and the boat, and may be able to supply information that corroborates your view of the situation.

However, it's entirely up to you if you post 'personal' information on an open forum.

 

Regards.

[The boat's name is Snail's Pace. British Waterways 520157. It was owned by Terry Taylor and moored up at Cowley North. ]

[luctor et emergo]

See?

 

There IS more to this story. So who put the original post looking for this boat up?

 

So there are two parties, both claiming ownership, without proof, of this boat.

 

If I didn't have to go to work in a mo, I'd crack open a few cold ones, and pull up the comfy chair.

[snailspace12]

It's not green with red gunwhales is it?

[it is yes. Why do you ask?]

[alan_fincher]

So there are two parties, both claiming ownership, without proof, of this boat.

Have we really established all of that in this, (or any other), thread ?

 

As it has clearly been a Police matter, I can't see the point in us speculating what proof may exist as to how much of the boat may be owned by any party in the dispute.

[luctor et emergo]

Have we really established all of that in this, (or any other), thread ?

 

As it has clearly been a Police matter, I can't see the point in us speculating what proof may exist as to how much of the boat may be owned by any party in the dispute.

 

 

But Alan, shurly that is what we do best here?

[matty40s]

See?

There IS more to this story. So who put the original post looking for this boat up?

So there are two parties, both claiming ownership, without proof, of this boat.

If I didn't have to go to work in a mo, I'd crack open a few cold ones, and pull up the comfy chair.

 

The forum has a grea track record of finding boats reported missing.

There are a few people on here with connections to or have a dialogue with Police/BW and put requests up when they are made.

There are often questions asked as to why they are missing or who says they are missing, but when backed up by Police Crime number and a BW request, tend to get acted on.

The ones which are not backed up by the authorities are often questioned as to motives for wanting to find the boat in question.

We report sightings and this is fed back to the relevant authority, or they read the forum thread, or both.

[churchward]

See?

 

There IS more to this story. So who put the original post looking for this boat up?

 

So there are two parties, both claiming ownership, without proof, of this boat.

 

If I didn't have to go to work in a mo, I'd crack open a few cold ones, and pull up the comfy chair.

As you were the first person to repond to the first thread on this you should know that it was the forums own Lady M who posted. How fleeting in the memory the forum threads are huh?

 

There are always many sides to any situation.

 

It sounds a very entangled and very unclear as to who may own the boat. Sadly it may also be confused further by a potential lack of Will left by the unfortunate deceased. Being intestate (ie no will) can be a complex matter on its own without the complication of proof of ownership of an asset. even being next of kin is not necesarily the end of the matter when it comes to inheritence of money or other assets.

[Grace and Favour]

 

It's not green with red gunwhales is it?

[it is yes. Why do you ask?]

 

I strongly suggest that the very first thing you do is contact Uxbridge Police - - quoting Uxbridge Police crime reference number: 0907857/12.

 

And take matters from there . . . . ..

[luctor et emergo]

As you were the first person to repond to the first thread on this you should know that it was the forums own Lady M who posted. How fleeting in the memory the forum threads are huh?

 

There are always many sides to any situation.

 

It sounds a very entangled and very unclear as to who may own the boat. Sadly it may also be confused further by a potential lack of Will left by the unfortunate deceased. Being intestate (ie no will) can be a complex matter on its own without the complication of proof of ownership of an asset. even being next of kin is not necesarily the end of the matter when it comes to inheritence of money or other assets.

 

 

Yes, true, LM posted it, what I meant, was rather from which side of the story that came. Was LM contacted by the police?

But anyho, as I need to go to work, I'll but out of this one now, and will spend what little time I have later troll baiting...

[snailspace12]

I strongly suggest that the very first thing you do is contact Uxbridge Police - - quoting Uxbridge Police crime reference number: 0907857/12.

 

And take matters from there . . . . ..

[Have spoken to police and they do not want anything to do with it as it is a civil matter apparently]

[Chertsey]

Well it just go to show that there are two sides to every story (OK, nearly every story) and having a crime number is no guarantee of a person's being in the right.

 

This sounds like an intractable civil case to me and (do as I say and not as I do) a strong argument for doing things officially and getting them in writing.

[alan_fincher]

Well it just go to show that there are two sides to every story (OK, nearly every story) and having a crime number is no guarantee of a person's being in the right.

I may have missed it, but not sure anyone has suggested it is ?

 

But if the police are involved, it seems to me a process has started that has to run its course, and I'm not sure that anyone here can offer much advice that is going to change that.

[Chertsey]

I may have missed it, but not sure anyone has suggested it is ?

 

But if the police are involved, it seems to me a process has started that has to run its course, and I'm not sure that anyone here can offer much advice that is going to change that.

On the prevous thread there was a sense that the OPs case was legit, because the police were involved, whereas we have been wary of getting involved in similar cases where they haven't been.

 

It sounds now as if the police involvement has ended, from what the OP says in a later post.

[luctor et emergo]

I may have missed it, but not sure anyone has suggested it is ?

 

But if the police are involved, it seems to me a process has started that has to run its course, and I'm not sure that anyone here can offer much advice that is going to change that.

 

 

Not that that will stop many from putting their oar in anyway..

 

 

 

<Now where did those cheese puffs go..?>